I didnt put this in the diet section because I felt it was more general and not specific diet question.

40 yrs old
6' 230
Cycle History: a couple test only and 1 with Dbol for 4 weeks

So I have done a few cycles at high body fat because I was too impatient and couldnt wait and didnt have the dicipline to cut first. I had marginal results at best. I had some strength gains but hey... You guys were right. Gear is not magic. So far im down over 45 pounds and getting closer to a place where I can start thinking about it again. I still think im over 20% though. So I figure Id ask the Bros...

Whats the most optimum body fat % to start a cycle and also..

Whats max you think would still see good to great results.