HCG and PCT

[GrappleGD11]

Im going to start a test e 500mg and eq 500 mg cycle for 14 weeks. I am thinking of taking Aromasin (liquid stane) during cycle and clomid post cycle. I want to take HCG during cycle. The only issue is that I have been able to find tons on PCT and good websites to get, but nothing on HCG. Is it legal to buy online in the US or am I going to get ripped off? I already have the test and eq and planned on getting the pct online but not sure about the HCG. Any advice would help on that or on what you think of taking Stane during cycle. Thanks for the help!

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

It is a good idea to take Aromasin during your cycle. I would run Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT.

HCG can no be legally purchased without a prescription in the US. It's the same as your Test E and EQ, you're going to have to find a source.

Check out the ar-r banner at the top for all your PCT items.

[Capebuffalo]

What are your stats and cycle experience? Clomid and novla for pct.

[GrappleGD11]

Thanks for the help Johnnny. I have heard ppl say Clomid and Nolva for pct, but I have't been able to find out why I need both instead of just one or the other besides ppl saying it is a failsafe. Do you have any insight on this? Also, if I cant get HCG will IGF 1 help instead?

[GrappleGD11]

Im 6'1 185 walk around weight. I fight MMA so I want to keep my walk around under 195-198 ish so I can still cut to fight weight (which wont be til off cycle and off pct). Thats why I chose EQ with test e because I heard it helps with endurance athletes. Its my second cycle. I did a cycle of just sust 250 a little while ago to see how I would react and I didnt even notice it.

[Capebuffalo]

I would run test e only @500 mg a week split into 2 pins every 3.5 days. Also armidex @ .25 mg eod. Adjust accordingly. Hcg 250 mcgs 2x a week. Run for 12 weeks. Run pct 15 days after last pin. Drop the eq. Eq raises rbc and in turn your bp. Wouldn't think this would be good for mma.

[NotConvincedYet]

Interesting with regard to RBC count. That's the very reason it would be good for endurance athletes. Blood doping and EPO does the same thing. Although I do believe deaths have occurred from a RBC count being too high as a result of doping/drugs!

I gues you have to weigh up the benefits versus effects and be smart about it, just like AAS use in general...

[Capebuffalo]

Correct me if I am wrong but blood doping is one time prior to the event. 12+ weeks 7 days a week on eq would be a little much for that type of training and fighting ?

[GrappleGD11]

Thanks for the info from both CapeBuffalo and NotConvincedYet. It seems like most people who fight like eq for cardio, but some have problems with the "pump" it gives hindering movement. I'm worried about getting too bloated or too much water weight and getting slow. Any suggestions on how to avoid that or will the Armidex work with that? Also, if I cant get the HCG, will IGF 1 work almost the same? I can get that off ar-r so it would be easier to get. Thanks again for the responses!

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Thanks for the help Johnnny. I have heard ppl say Clomid and Nolva for pct, but I have't been able to find out why I need both instead of just one or the other besides ppl saying it is a failsafe. Do you have any insight on this? Also, if I cant get HCG will IGF 1 help instead?

This question gets asked at least 3x a week it seems like. A knowledgeable member posted up some research and studies on it, I'll see if I can find it.

[Capebuffalo]

Armidex helps me with bloat. Igf and hcg not the same. Hcg is for testicular atrophy.

[GrappleGD11]

Thanks Johnnny let me know if you find it..
Cape- I read IGF helps with the testes (bc it regrows cells) but just not as powerful as HCG. My guy I got my stuff from says he doesn't get HCG so I was looking to see if there was an alternative I could get to run with the test that I could get easier or online. Any suggestions?

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Why Use Both Clomid and Nolvadex Together?

QUESTION: I have read that Clomid and Novadex are very similar products. Is this true? If so why would you need to take both?

ANSWER: The administration of antiestrogens is a common treatment because anti estrogens interfere with the normal negative feedback of sex steroids at hypothalamic and pituitary levels in order to increase endogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone secretion from the hypothalamus and FSH and LH secretion directly from the pituitary. In turn, FSH and LH stimulate Leydig cells in the testes, and this has been claimed to lead to increased local testosterone production, thereby boosting spermatogenesis with a possible improvement in fertility. There may also be a direct effect of antiestrogens on testicular spermatogenesis or steroidogenesis.

Clomiphene is a synthetic derivative an estrogen. Clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Tamoxifen is a pure estradiol receptor antagonist. Clomid acts as an estrogen, rather than an antiestrogen, by sensitizing pituitary cells to the action of GnRH. Although tamoxifen is almost as effective as Clomid in binding to pituitary estrogen receptors, tamoxifen has little or no estrogenic activity in terms of its ability to enhance the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. The estrogenic action of Clomid at the pituitary represents a unique feature of this compound and that tamoxifen may be devoid of estrogenic activity at the pituitary level.

Perusal of the literature thus indicates that clomiphene acts in several ways in the human male; (a) due to its similarity of structure to stilbesterol it binds with receptor sites in the hypothalamus and pituitary, (b) It stimulates gonadotrophin secretion by acting on the hypothalamo-hypophyseal system, (c) the inhibitory effects of high levels of circulating estrogens (produced under the influence of clomiphene) on hypothalamo-hypophyseal axis are possibly prevented by its potent antiestrogenic behaviour. The result of these varied effects of clomiphene is an overall increase in gonadotrophin and estrogen secretion and accounts for their increase under clinical conditions.

In one study the administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels.

Cochran database summary showed ten studies involving 738 men were included. Five of the trials did not specify method of randomization. Antiestrogens had a positive effect on endocrinal outcomes, such as serum testosterone levels . Antiestrogens appear to have a beneficial effect on endocrinal outcomes, but there is not enough evidence to evaluate the use of antiestrogens for increasing the fertility of males with idiopathic oligo-asthenospermia.

In the over one-thousand patients I have treated for HPTA normalization after AAS cessation i have used the combination of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. I have used clomiphene citrate alone in many cases. I added tamoxifen to the protocol to see if I could get a better clinical response. This seemed to be the case although I have not had the opportunity to evaluate the data. When both compounds are used the clomiphene citrate is discontinued first and the tamoxifen is continued for 2 more weeks. as I stated in the post on hCG injections it is imperative to be tested while on the medications. thus one would be tested ~3-5 days before the tamoxifen expires. In the 1st stage described in the hCG post one tests for testosterone only. the serum T level determines whether or not the hCG is halted. In the typical situation the hCG is stopped and the CC & tamoxifen continued. the lab tests at the end of the oral meds is LH & T.

Dr. Michael Scally

This is from Knowledgeable Individual on this board "Turkish_Juicer" Thank you for providing this information.

[GrappleGD11]

Thanks for the read Johnnny. It clears things up a lot for me. Im starting to get a better idea of the cycle Im going to be doing so Im feeling a little better about it. Now if I can clear up a substitute or something for HCG i'll be set! Thanks for the help fellas

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Don't think there is a substitute for HCG...

[GrappleGD11]

I figured there is nothing to sub it exactly, just something I can take that might help during cycle at least a little but like hcg does. If not I guess i can go without it. By the way, I like the Reds hat reppin Ohio, even though ur in Cali

[gixxerboy1]

there is no substitute for hcg. You will need to find a source, igf is not a replacement
I fight also. Trust me drop the eq.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I figured there is nothing to sub it exactly, just something I can take that might help during cycle at least a little but like hcg does. If not I guess i can go without it. By the way, I like the Reds hat reppin Ohio, even though ur in Cali

Not a reds fan but I'm always wearing 59 50's and like the colors. Think I need to adjust my pic, you're like the 3rd person to comment on my unloyalty to Cali

[GrappleGD11]

Gixxerboy you think Ill be good just on test with armidex during and clomid and nolva as pct?

[GrappleGD11]

Johnnny the hats are slick for sure.....Cali has it all man Ohio needs a boost every now and then

[MickeyKnox]

Gixxerboy you think Ill be good just on test with armidex during and clomid and nolva as pct?

100% bro. (and im confident Gixx will say the same)

[The Titan99]

100% bro. (and im confident Gixx will say the same)

Sure man, you can make that work. Guy's have done it like that for decades. BUT, HCG makes the thing soooo much easier, better and effective it's definitely worth getting. Just look around dude, the stuff is cheap, effective and not really faked as much as you think because of this. In fact, scumbags used to use HCG to fake HGH it's so damn inexpensive.

[gixxerboy1]

Gixxerboy you think Ill be good just on test with armidex during and clomid and nolva as pct?

yes i do