Nolvadex causing nausea + extreme lethargy? Need input/help!

[Atomini]

Hi all,

I haven't posted here in a long while but I have recently finished a cycle and have been on PCT for 5 days now. However, I must note that this is not my first time running nolva at all, i've run it countless times before during PCT and have used both pharm grade as well as UGL, etc. This is my first time using this particular brand, however (it is pharm grade generic tamoxifen from europe dosed at 10mg per tab).

I started off at 40mg of nolva per day and on the 2nd day I found myself with a slight nauseous feeling throughout the whole day (though I could still eat my meals etc no problem). First day of nolva I didn't feel any nausea. I thought maybe I ate something bad, but that couldn't be the case as I have an iron stomach, there are few things that upset my stomach. I've eaten rotten shit before and everything and i'm fine lol.

Anyhow, the nausea was accompanied by EXTREME lethargy. On the 3rd day I was so tired I slept 6 hours throughout the day and went back to bed for a full night's sleep later no problem. I had to resort a couple times to taking gravol to deal with the nausea. I don't think I had a fever, as it didn't feel like it so I didn't take my temperature. As of 1 day ago I went down to 20mg of nolva to see if this was perhaps caused by taking too much. No dice there, as it's still happening.

I always take my Nolva first thing in the morning and the nausea seems to start a couple hours after that. As of writing this post right now on my cellphone, I am out for a father's day brunch but I have ZERO appetite because this time today I took my nolva in the morning, slight nauseous feeling started 2 or 3 hours later. So I took gravol, then indigestion feelings started happening, and shortly after went out to eat. Ate a bit and the burning/indigestion feeling got worse, so I ran out to grab some pepto bismol, took it, and now my appetite is DEAD. And today was going to be my cheat day

Anyhow, nauseous feeling is still there. I don't want to stop the nolva altogether due to it being my PCT, but at the same time I am strongly convinced its causing these feelings. Perhaps this lab im using stamped/synthesized their tablets differently and its harsh on my stomach?

Luckily I have 3 types of nolva on me:

- the one I am using right now
- some left over UGL grade nolva
- pharm grade nolva from a different lab (perscription tamoxifen given to my mother a few years ago for breast cancer treatment she didn't want to use, so I took them)

Tomorrow morning I will try switching it up to one lof the others and see if this still keeps up. I've never had this happen before with Nolva.

For your info, the cycle I just came off:
- 10 weeks of test prop at 400mg per week
- 10 weeks of Anadrol at 50mg per day
- HGH at 4iu per day (but havent used it in 2 weeks due to switching brands to a bunk brand)

I need some input, as this feeling like i'm going to throw up all day is horrible!

[Atomini]

Godddd all this great food at an all you can eat buffet and I feel too sick to eat!!

[Atomini]

I know this isn't your typical AAS question, but I have to bump this to get some input.

[PowerHouse1900]

I would go with your instinct. If you suspect the brand you're using is making you ill I would switch and flush it. PCT is the worse time to be struck with lethargy and poor appetite.

[Atomini]

Roger that.

Tomorrow morning I will use the other pharm grade nolva that I got from my mother.

If I STILL get the nausea and lethargy, it means it's definitely not the pill or brand causing an upset stomach. I hope to god this isn't a liver issue (I am aware Nolva is ever so slightly hepatoxic). And I did run Anadrol for 10 whole weeks, though this nausea shit didn't start until I started taking the Nolva....

[PowerHouse1900]

Roger that.

Tomorrow morning I will use the other pharm grade nolva that I got from my mother.

If I STILL get the nausea and lethargy, it means it's definitely not the pill or brand causing an upset stomach. I hope to god this isn't a liver issue (I am aware Nolva is ever so slightly hepatoxic). And I did run Anadrol for 10 whole weeks, though this nausea shit didn't start until I started taking the Nolva....

I doubt it's your liver. You would have noticed symptoms at the tale end of your cycle when running the a bombs. If nausea and lethargy continues after switching out the nolva it may be recovery related.

[Atomini]

I agree, but it's strange though... in all of the countless PCTs i've ever done in which i've used Nolva, i've never ever encountered this. The lethargy and nausea i'm getting here i've never really experienced before, I always recovered very quickly during post-cycle. Well, i'll find out tomorrow. I hope it's just these particular tablets causing my stomach to over produce hydrochloric acid since that's what it feels like. It'll be a shame to throw away a whole package of pharm grade nolva tabs if it happens to be the brand. I'll probably sell it to a buddy or something.

[Atomini]

Well... it is now 3 hours after I took 20mg of nolva from one of the other brands I have, and the SAME fvcking upset stomach and nausea feeling is happening!!! Wtf is going on!?

I had to take more pepto bismol just now. I'm not going to take ANY nolva tomorrow and see what happens.

[Atomini]

Update: diarrhea twice today. Not sure what to make of that. Zero appetite at all, ate half of meal #2 before I felt like puking so I threw the other half out. I feel like absolute shit, going to take a nap.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Well well, just puked up violently after grabbing a glass of water to drink. Ran to the toilet after drinking 1 glass of water. No visible blood in the puke as far as I could see, but it had a pink-ish tint to it, probably from the pepto bismol I had earlier (which didn't do shit by the way). Bye bye egg whites and oatmeal from 4 hours ago, and I haven't eaten since. Great PCT diet eh?

Feeling quite better now after upchucking. Burning/indigestion feeling in stomach stopped a few hours ago but the nausea was there on and off leading up to the puke I just had.

I am 100% positive this is the nolvadex causing this and I am definitely skipping my nolva dose tomorrow morning. I might have to let my body recover on its own during PCT without nolva...

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Haha puked AGAIN! First puke was at approximately 2:00. At 3:50 - 4:00 I tried to eat a bit more, tried sticking to things that may be easy on the stomach. Had a protein bar, a banana, and a slice of toast. Well, there went that meal. Had constant on and off nauseous feeling after eating until now. 7:30 right now and I just puked it all up into the toilet!

I am convinced this is probably some sort of a gastric ulcer, likely caused by the Anadrol I used on my cycle, and is now being aggrivated by the nolvadex. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning when I stop the nolva, see how I react after my first meal. Will head to the doctor tomorrow after work to get this checked out.

Looks like this is becoming my little 'wtf is going on with me' log lol.

[PowerHouse1900]

I was under the impression that you were switching brands?>

[PowerHouse1900]

If I could not hold down nolva during pct... I would stick it right up my butt.

[Atomini]

If I could not hold down nolva during pct... I would stick it right up my butt.

LMAO!! Nolvadex suppository! I like the idea!!

I did switch the brand this morning btw, I took the other pharm grade nolva I have. Same thing happened,

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Just got back from the walk-in clinic. I just couldn't hold off until tomorrow, my stomach is/was killing me. Doctor perscribed me a proton pump inhibitor to lower the pH level in my stomach. Took it 30 mins ago and i'm already feeling relieved.

Will still forego my nolva dose for tomorrow. I am NOT taking any more days of eating nothing and puking up whatever I eat. No fvcking way I am going to lose all my gains from a cycle I just ended because I happened to get a stomach ulcer a week after I finished! We shall see how this goes.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: No nolva today this morning at all. Ate a banana at 6:45am. Ate a protein bar and some oatmeal at 8:00. Barfed everything up at 10:15, still no blood in my puke which is a GOOD sign. Stool is very dark though... hopefully that's just from the pepto bismol the other day and not a sign of something serious. Urine is a heavy orange color, but likely due to dehydration (it's difficult to get water down with my stomach wanting to throw everything out of me that I put in it; have to resort to sipping water slowly, very very slowly).

Went to another walk-in doctor for a second opinion and no change. Reccommended to eat licorice, real licorice root and/or licorice root extract, and bananas as they are said to rebuild the mucosal lining of the stomach. Hopefully this works.

On the way home stopped by WalMart and bought baby food, ate it at 4:00pm (didn't eat anything since puking this morning).... seems to be very nice on my stomach. So far it's the only thing that I can eat without problems! LOL. Well, I guess its time to say goodbye to all the muscle I gained on my cycle over the last 2 and a half months... there's no way i'm going to hold on to any of it with this keeping up

[magic32]

What's up Atomini? Long time...

...you're a vet man, you know the principles, if something is giving problems try a relative, i.e. get some Clomid. Or like PowerHouse said, maybe a brand change. Either way, dump that stuff and move on.

Take care.

[Atomini]

Hey magic,

I know the principles. Don't know if you bothered to read through my whole log or whatnot, but I did try switching it up and it seemed like the nolvadex in general was playing a role. HOWEVER, I am also open to the idea that perhaps the nolva didn't have anything to do with it and I just happened to catch a stomach sickness of some sort at the exact time I tried to start PCT. Either way, my investigation continues. IF my symptoms become a lot worse or of this remains for longer than a 4 days to a week or so, I will schedule an appointment with my personal doctor and get a referral to a gastroenterologist or something. Perhaps do bloodwork first to make sure its not a liver issue as well...

[magic32]

Gotcha.
Read a little more...licorice is cool, but be sure to get some acidophilus (friendly flora/probiotics) down there too. Keep us posted.

[Atomini]

Gotcha.
Read a little more...licorice is cool, but be sure to get some acidophilus (friendly flora/probiotics) down there too. Keep us posted.

YES, that's what I forgot that the doc mentioned. Probiotics to restore bacterial balance in my gut. Going to head out to grab some now. Also going to grab more baby food and MRP shakes. I HAVE to find a way to keep my cals up, I really don't want to lose this muscle, especially during PCT! Going to weigh myself tomorrow morning.... I am really dreading what the scale is going to say lol. 1 week ago I was 217lbs. I hope 2 days of starving myself isn't going to kill my mass.

Was going to hit a leg workout today too but decided against it. No gym until i'm 100%.

[PowerHouse1900]

Damn bro. The only good news is that it sounds like you're really on top of the issue as much as you can be.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: So, it's now day 3 since all this shit got really bad. Been sticking to liquids, mushy food, and meal replacement shakes. Baby food, ensure, probiotic yogurt, bananas, dark liquorice, and water/tea. I feel like a senile old man living in an old folks home lol. So far been able to hold down all the food pretty good. Seem to feel very bloated if I drink too fast, but never the less I have been able to drink more than the last 2 days. Urine is still a strong-ish orange color. I'm hoping that's just because i'm dehydrated. Got some good liver support on the way (Liv 52) in case this is a liver issue possibly. Haven't been able to check the color of my stool yet because I haven't had the need to take a shit yet (likely because of the lack of food and puking up I was doing the last day).

Going to weigh myself in a few hours to see how much muscle i've lost, lol. Looking in the mirror, it doesn't LOOK like i've really lost anything. Weight loss I suspect is probably going to be all water weight.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: I'm down 10 lbs. from 217 to 207, but my bodyfat % went down as well haha. I'm not too worried, I guess that's expected after a cycle of test and drol, and especially after whats been happening the last few days. I just need to keep my cals up through all this to maintain as much muscle as possible.

Just started taking Thermolife's Liver Longer (TUDCA) to recover the liver in the event that this may be a liver issue. Feeling better overall though, holding food down well so far but still need to up the water intake a bit more.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Feeling overall much better, able to hold down SOME solid food and able to drink bigger gulps of water when I drink without the urge to vomit. Eating solids too fast or drinking extremely fast (or too much at once) will induce nausea and upset stomach. Stool is still dark but color seems to be slowly changing back to normal, all good signs.

As a side note, I seem to be feeling MUCh better since starting liver support supplements as well (Liv 52 and Liver Longer (TUDCA)). Not that I attribute my recovery to the liver support supps, but I can't help but think this maybe had something to do with my liver...

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Okay, decided to try a shot at Nolvadex again today a few hours ago. Took it with my first meal and i'm feeling GREAT! No issues at all. I am going to try eating solid foods today and get back on track! I am feeling amazing.

Now, i've been doing A LOT of reading and research over the last day or so and i'm finding overwhelming evidence that the 'acid reflux' a lot of people claim to get from C17AA oral steroids and/or anti-estrogens is actually in reality a bile issue in relation to the hepatoxic effects of said compounds. I am going to be making a big post soon with my findings for people to see.

I am convinced that what's been happening with me SEEMED like a stomach ulcer, is in reality actually a liver issue caused by my use of Anadrol 50, and further aggrivated by nolvadex when I entered PCT. All of my symptoms described that, and since taking liver support (SERIOUS liver support) supplements, I have steadily been recovering and feeling incredibly better. I am actually able to take my nolvadex now again with no issues at all. Will post findings soon.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Was feeling so good lately now that i'm back to normal that I attempted to go without my Lansoprazole dose this morning to see how it would go. Unfortunately, after my first meal I started to feel the gastritis (burning, indigestion feelings) and so I had to take it a couple hours later. Feeling a lot better now.

This likely IS gastritis (though not a full blown ulcer) due to my attempt today at foregoing the Lansoprazole administration this morning. After all of this, i'm pretty sure that damn Anadrol I ran for 10 weeks eroded the mucous lining of my stomach and now this is happening because of it. I guess I just have to keep taking the Lansoprazole for it's whole course and let my stomach heal up.

[castiron]

i think the rectal route is genius. a little weird. but it makes sense.