Cycle longevity vs dosage?

[AZArmor]

Just a simple question for someone considering a cycle in a few weeks(never run one before, just here for research and advice should I decide to).

I'm thinking about running Var and or Clen/ECA, but I'm wondering whether or not a longer cycle is worth more than a higher dosage? For example, would a 6 week cycle of Var at 80mg/day yield better results than say an 8 week at 60mg?

[swm1972]

I think an anabolic steroid can be beneficial ran longer. Clen on the other hand has to be cycled off and on in two week intervals.

[austinite]

OP what are your stats?

[AZArmor]

25 male, 5'8.5 186 lbs, 19% bf. Trying to get down to 165ish lbs or 13 or 14%.

[swm1972]

25 male, 5'8.5 186 lbs, 19% bf. Trying to get down to 165ish lbs or 13 or 14%.

Anabolic steroids are not a diet supplement. your first attempt at a 'cycle' (if you want to call Anavar/Clen a cycle) is to lose 20 lbs and 5% body fat? That's a huge waste of totally fresh receptors. Its also something discipline and effort can accomplish with ease.

[AZArmor]

Anabolic steroids are not a diet supplement. your first attempt at a 'cycle' (if you want to call Anavar/Clen a cycle) is to lose 20 lbs and 5% body fat? That's a huge waste of totally fresh receptors. Its also something discipline and effort can accomplish with ease.

Its also something discipline and effort can accomplish with ease.
I wish this were true, but for me it's not. The goals that I listed were my near-term goals that I feel are realistic, my ultimate goal would be 155 with under 10%, but I doubt that I can ever make that happen.

At my heaviest I was 246 and and my lightest 169, but once hitting that low I've slowly been getting heavier and heavier over the past few years. Once I hit 190 again following 6 or 7 failed diets I finally accepted that my metabolism and genetics just aren't as good as the average person's. I'm not in bad shape, I'm actually in fantastic shape - I've completed Insanity twice with ease and can max with Army physical fitness test without too much trouble. My body just refuses to get smaller. Which is why I'm here - to find solutions. I have a couple more diets left that I'm looking to try(one is a 50/30/20 protein/carb/fat plan, another is a 60/15/25) but I've essentially decided that if they don't yield results then I'm gonna have to take things to the next level.


your first attempt at a 'cycle' (if you want to call Anavar/Clen a cycle)
What would you recomment? People have recommended a lot of different things to me thus far including Var, Clen, ECA, t3, and combinations of the four. I'm still just gathering information and educating myself in case I do want to use any of them, and every opinion counts to me.

[carteblanche08865]

Hey AZ, I'll touch on a few things here. I've been a heavier kid most of my life. When I first started dieting and training (to get ready for the military) I was 280 lbs @ 5"11, yes 280. All things being equal I've always been more on the stronger and athletic side of the scale, but endomorph all the way. I was as low as 168 lbs @ 7% body fat (I posted pics here) and now I'm probably 205 or so @ maybe 13% or so now.

That being said, if I could recommend anything, it would be peptides to you. I've posted on here numerous times about the mod grf and ipam combo that helped me stay lean with minimal serious dieting. Sure I ate every 4 hours and was sure I was hungry before eating, but not starving. I think you may benefit from these as well. You can get great info on peptides man, something to think about. I did 100mcg of each 3 and then later 4 times a day and stayed single digits for a full year while doing competitive kickboxing. Sure I didn't gain any muscle mass, but I wasn't trying too. Your sleep will be better as well. I've tried clen and I think it can help in a 40mcg or so dosage, no need to go nuts and cramp when you're yawning etc etc. 2 weeks on/off. I've tried t3 and the crash after only 30 days was the worst feeling I've personally ever felt. Talk about no energy wow.

This is turning into a long post but use your genetics to your advantage and tweak things here and there. Meaning...I used to go for the gsp ripped look all year, but all that did was almost make me anemic after years of hard dieting and muscle loss. Now I look for the Mike Tyson look. Still in shape, but playing into what I'm supposed to be naturally, stronger and semi lean. Use the times when you just can't diet anymore and take them in stride to get bigger and refill the tanks again. Diet when you know you have the motivation and the mental will to suffer and deprive yourself. When that runs out, then take advantage of the window after a diet and get stronger again. Rinse and repeat, if you want to.

More food for thought. If you've been more on the heavy side for sometime now. Your skin may not recover and look as tight as you'd like it to look. I notice that I'm much tighter looking at 10/12% or so than I ever was 7/8. I'm talking abdomen and arm skin now. Good luck either way man. I've been where you're coming from.

Lol, in a nutshell, research peptides. I haven't read anything pertaining to shutdown on natural gh or anything like that. Tweak your diet as you feel you need to, you will get better with this in time when you find out just what you need. Don't go completely nuts thinking you have to eat blank grams protein per pound of lean mass. Your body will burn sugar for fuel and if you don't have some carbs in there when you need them it will just try to burn protein anyway which takes so much longer and stresses your system for sure. Take it from me, I did broccoli and boiled chicken for a year. I think you know you don't need steroids at this point. The main focus is to get bigger and you probably won't have the calories to use them to the full benefit. If you're dead set on them you may respond well to var who knows, I've never taken it. I did exactly what you're suggesting with winstrol oral though and while It was fun to feel my muscles hard, I didn't know what I was doing yet and shut myself down for nothing. Ok I'm done

Bob

[evander87]

Its also something discipline and effort can accomplish with ease.
I wish this were true, but for me it's not. The goals that I listed were my near-term goals that I feel are realistic, my ultimate goal would be 155 with under 10%, but I doubt that I can ever make that happen.

At my heaviest I was 246 and and my lightest 169, but once hitting that low I've slowly been getting heavier and heavier over the past few years. Once I hit 190 again following 6 or 7 failed diets I finally accepted that my metabolism and genetics just aren't as good as the average person's. I'm not in bad shape, I'm actually in fantastic shape - I've completed Insanity twice with ease and can max with Army physical fitness test without too much trouble. My body just refuses to get smaller. Which is why I'm here - to find solutions. I have a couple more diets left that I'm looking to try(one is a 50/30/20 protein/carb/fat plan, another is a 60/15/25) but I've essentially decided that if they don't yield results then I'm gonna have to take things to the next level.

So you decide to cycle. And you get great results. What happens after your cycle?

If you don't change your eating habits and exercise you'll just balloon right back up. As a former fattie myself I know about that first hand.

If you really are ready for a lifestyle change head over to the diet section and find something that works for you.

[AZArmor]

Thanks for the info Carteblanche08865! Glad to hear from someone who has an idea where I'm coming from. I've tried a ton of diets including basic calorie deficit, atkins, low carb, the abs diet, paleo, liquid, I even gave weight watchers a try. Each one lasted two or three months before ending in frustration and setting me up for a few weeks without motivation. Good idea on working towards my natural strengths during that time though - work on my strength and endurance.

I'll keep an eye out for health problems though, I didn't know that anemia could be developed through fasting(well I guess I did, I just never thought about it). Not too worried about my skin though, I don't want to be flabby by any means - but I think I'll know when to stop(kinda going for a short Ryan Bader type look). My goals are flexible though, all dependent on how happy I am with myself.

So you recommend Peptides? To be honest I hadn't looked into them(mainly because I didn't know what they were) until reading your post. I like what I'm learning about them! t3 and Var have essentially been knocked off of my list, Clen is still on my mind though, but your recommendation is taking my favor haha. I'm going to keep trucking naturally for a few more weeks, see if I have a breakthrough - but I'm going to keep researching in case I don't so that if I decide to use something I'll know what and how.

Thanks again for the advice bro, do you mind if I send you some questions? A lot of what I'm reading is going over my head(like the difference between hGH and GHRP, etc). A lot of chemical and biological terms that I don't understand lol.

Changing topics! Cool to hear from another fighter. I used to compete a few years ago, in fact it's one of the reason why I'm trying to drop the weight - so that I can get back into a weight class where I'm similar in size to the guys swinging at me haha.

[carteblanche08865]

Hey my pleasure AZ..I don't post on this board often, but glad I could help. I don't care how many times something has been covered. This is a discussion board and we should renew even the most basic info from time to time.

Be sure to send any questions you have my way, by message or here is fine. Now when you're dieting, what's your routine looking like? I don't need a super breakdown, but are you lifting x amount, kickboxing x amount, cardio etc.

I found for me to seriously trim down, I needed 6 days a week training, not forever but maybe at least the last 2 months of a 4 month cut. Nowadays, I can cut in probably half the time because like I said you learn what works for you. Personally for me it was...daily lifting (volume), bag and pad work (technique and conditioning) and sprints! Don't forget them at the end of the workout, we did as many 40 yard sprints as we could do individually before sacrificing form. Don't try to do too hard on these all the time or you will strain hams or knees trust me. Just put the effort in to be explosive and smooth and these will cut fat for you man as well as help put whatever food you're eating off the waist line. It's like a mini leg workout daily. This routine along with slowly bringing cals down will do it. Sometimes you'll have to grit your teeth and be tired, that's the nature of the beast for those not born lean. Now I don't want to make it sound like dieting will harm you, but obsessing about looking a certain way and going to the extreme potentially can. I lived in NJ when the bulk of my dieting was done and my blood iron got so low eventually that anything under 75 degrees was freezing to me, not kidding, was a horrible time, I was pencil necked and emaciated. Not saying you'll go that far, better not! Haha, girls like me much more the way I am now lol, real talk

You will get there man! Just know that if you stay at it, you will get there!

As far as peps go, I won't get technical on you, but I'd recommend the grf and ipamorelin combo to you. Fancy names, one causes a natural pulse in gh and the other increases the strength of the pulse. Dose these every 3 hours at 100 mcg each if you an afford or if you can't then I always went with: after waking up, pre workout, pre bed. Pretty simple stuff and yes it's an injection but dude...you take an insulin pin and poke it 2mm into the skin and it's done. You won't even feel it most of the time if you use a fresh pin. These peps will def improve sleep and recovery on a caloric deficit as well as burn fat, IMO. I started to use mgf with every meal as well so I was getting quite a bit of peps throughout my day haha. I don't really know if it did much for nutrient shuttling, but who knows. Knowing when and what to eat will do more than peps. When you feel like you can't just get away with a chicken salad, have a chicken sandwich, make sure it's plain but use the energy for the workouts. Don't let your food intake determine your workouts, let your workouts determine your food intake. Meaning don't feel like you have to stick to x amount of calories and zombie through minimal lifting everyday. Hell no, eat and train to burn it off, adjust from there, sprints are key if you can do them or any hit cardio. Thai kicks count too, 20 kicks per side with your trainer slowly walking backward will get the abs better than any routine you can do. I'm sure you know this. Do 20 per side for 5 sets and that's half your cardio there.

I tend to ramble here, I just enjoy helping people with diet and kickboxing. It's such a great sport, I even trained my brother and numerous friends from ground zero for the last 8 years before I moved. I love it, was awesome to see my brother landing one handed combinations on people haha lmao.

Anyway, clen may be of some use to you man. Watch your dosage if you're doing bjj. You can get some nasty leg cramps mid session that will kick your ass lol. 40 mcg always worked well as a little boost. T3 is for later for you IMO.

Hope all is well man!

Bob

[swm1972]

First congrats on your success so far. I quit smoking and out on a lot of weight in my mid 20's and ended up at 280lbs when I decided to turn it all around. I started walking because I couldn't run (too fat) and later jogging when it became possible all the way down to 185lbs. From a size 42 waist (with a huge hangover my belt gut) to a size 30 waist. It can be done but without question it is difficult.

Before trying something like steroids I'd exhaust every other option for weight loss. ECA. Clen. DNP. Etc. Steroids only work to preserve mass while on a strict diet (save what you have) or they can increase your BMR indirectly by increasing your lean mass.

For a first cycle, my opinion, don't waste it in the diet plan. Fresh receptors are an amazing thing. I'd love a second chance at my first cycle again.

[Blergs]

I think an anabolic steroid can be beneficial ran longer. Clen on the other hand has to be cycled off and on in two week intervals.

Agreed!

[AZArmor]

First congrats on your success so far. I quit smoking and out on a lot of weight in my mid 20's and ended up at 280lbs when I decided to turn it all around. I started walking because I couldn't run (too fat) and later jogging when it became possible all the way down to 185lbs. From a size 42 waist (with a huge hangover my belt gut) to a size 30 waist. It can be done but without question it is difficult.

Thank you! My motivation the past few months has trickled over to my family and caused them to start working harder to lose weight(which has in turn motivated me) which is great, obesity is a huge problem in my family. I've lost 2 lbs since posting this thread so my current diet seems to be working at the moment, pretty happy. We'll see if it keeps up

Before trying something like steroids I'd exhaust every other option for weight loss. ECA. Clen. DNP. Etc. Steroids only work to preserve mass while on a strict diet (save what you have) or they can increase your BMR indirectly by increasing your lean mass.

At the moment using anything other than over-the-counter thermogenics isn't planned, only prepared for. If I plateau again and can't break it before August I'll probably use Clen or GHRP-6/CJC-1295 or Frag 176(I'm getting a lot of mixed reviews on 176, a lot of people love it, a lot hate it). But that decision is 5 weeks away, if it ever comes. Still reading and learning and weighing the pros and cons.

For a first cycle, my opinion, don't waste it in the diet plan. Fresh receptors are an amazing thing. I'd love a second chance at my first cycle again.

If I ever decide to go the anabolic route I definitely won't waste it during cutting. I'm not into being huge, though, so I doubt I would ever use anything other than winny or var to increase strength and definition.

Thanks for the advice man!