2nd cycle question

**thatguyinthegym** · 06-21-2012, 12:39 AM

I currently have 1 vial (10 ml, 450mg/ml) of testosterone enanthate /boldenone blend remaining from my last cycle and 1 bottle of Nolvadex (50 capsules). The source I had for this I no longer have, so it will be pretty hard to obtain more of this.

My question is, is there any point of running this one vial by itself at 450mg/week? I am open to buying something different from another source (most likely some type of oral online) but if I decided against that would there be any benefit in just running this?

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 12:41 AM

Is money tight?

**thatguyinthegym** · 06-21-2012, 12:46 AM

You could say that, yes

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 12:51 AM

Okay, that's what I figured. Here's the problem. In my opinion an average cycle is the cheapest component of bodybuilding. If you cannot afford to buy another bottle of test, an AI, HCG , clomid, and letro for emergencies how can you afford to eat properly?

**thatguyinthegym** · 06-21-2012, 12:56 AM

I can afford it if I really want to no problem, I'm just being cheap and wondering if the 1 vial by itself will give me anything at all or if it will be a waste.

My diet is on point I've been lifting for 11 years, 26 y.o., 6'1, 200 lbs.

I would most likely buy something else, such as another vial of test enanthate , anavar , or winstrol , just wondering if I could run the 1 vial and see any gains.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by thatguyinthegym

I can afford it if I really want to no problem, I'm just being cheap and wondering if the 1 vial by itself will give me anything at all or if it will be a waste.

My diet is on point I've been lifting for 11 years, 26 y.o., 6'1, 200 lbs.

I would most likely buy something else, such as another vial of test enanthate, anavar, or winstrol, just wondering if I could run the 1 vial and see any gains.

You could run one bottle of gear. Just make sure you get the ancillaries I mentioned.

It's always a good idea to have more than enough gear. You never know when your bottle will slip out of your hand and into a million pieces on your bathroom floor.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 01:02 AM

Your best bet is to get more Test E and EQ (EQ if you want). If you don't have a source... its really not that hard. If there's a will there's a way. Ask friends to ask friends. I'm prolly gonna catch flack for saying this... I only bring it up bc it was discussed on a "short burst" cycle thread. Short Burst cycles are obviously better with short esters like Propionate or Suspension. But once, when I was uneducated on the matter, I had one bottle of Test Cyp 250... I did 1.5 ml E3D for 3 weeks and put on about 12-13 lbs while eating like a mad man and making each workout count. So, you would benefit greatly if you had more gear, but in my experience, you can make decent gains with one 10 ml bottle of Test. Dose should be higher than only 450mgs a week though. 450 is probably only 250mg of test to 200 mgs of eq. Thats 1 shot every 3.5 days of 125mg Test and 100 EQ. And thats only 5 weeks. You won't see enough muscle growth at such low doses to make it worth it. It would give you a slight edge in the gym, and with proper diet/training, you could see gains. But for all the hassle, and the fact that you'll loose alot of gains during and after pct, I would want to gain the most out of the cycle. I would either get more, or run a quick 3 week, higher dose (700-750mg test week) cycle then proper pct. What is the ratio of Test/EQ?

**thatguyinthegym** · 06-21-2012, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

You could run one bottle of gear. Just make sure you get the ancillaries I mentioned.

It's always a good idea to have more than enough gear. You never know when your bottle will slip out of your hand and into a million pieces on your bathroom floor.

I already have the nolva, would I really need clomid too for this cycle? I would only get an ai or hcg if I really needed it, am I misinformed here?

Originally Posted by Flacco

Your best bet is to get more Test E and EQ (EQ if you want). If you don't have a source... its really not that hard. If there's a will there's a way. Ask friends to ask friends. I'm prolly gonna catch flack for saying this... I only bring it up bc it was discussed on a "short burst" cycle thread. Short Burst cycles are obviously better with short esters like Propionate or Suspension. But once, when I was uneducated on the matter, I had one bottle of Test Cyp 250... I did 1.5 ml E3D for 3 weeks and put on about 12-13 lbs while eating like a mad man and making each workout count. So, you would benefit greatly if you had more gear, but in my experience, you can make decent gains with one 10 ml bottle of Test. Dose should be higher than only 450mgs a week though. 450 is probably only 250mg of test to 200 mgs of eq. Thats 1 shot every 3.5 days of 125mg Test and 100 EQ. And thats only 5 weeks. You won't see enough muscle growth at such low doses to make it worth it. It would give you a slight edge in the gym, and with proper diet/training, you could see gains. But for all the hassle, and the fact that you'll loose alot of gains during and after pct, I would want to gain the most out of the cycle. I would either get more, or run a quick 3 week, higher dose (700-750mg test week) cycle then proper pct. What is the ratio of Test/EQ?

It is 250 ml of test and 200 of EQ you are correct. My first cycle I went kind of heavy, ran 900mg of the EquiTest per week and 50 mg or Winstrol per day.

So you think it would be more beneficial to double up the dosage for a shorter amount of time?

Like I said, I will most likely be getting more of something rom somewhere. Just wondering if I could expect anything from just the one vial.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

Your best bet is to get more Test E and EQ (EQ if you want). If you don't have a source... its really not that hard. If there's a will there's a way. Ask friends to ask friends. I'm prolly gonna catch flack for saying this... I only bring it up bc it was discussed on a "short burst" cycle thread. Short Burst cycles are obviously better with short esters like Propionate or Suspension. But once, when I was uneducated on the matter, I had one bottle of Test Cyp 250... I did 1.5 ml E3D for 3 weeks and put on about 12-13 lbs while eating like a mad man and making each workout count. So, you would benefit greatly if you had more gear, but in my experience, you can make decent gains with one 10 ml bottle of Test. Dose should be higher than only 450mgs a week though. 450 is probably only 250mg of test to 200 mgs of eq. Thats 1 shot every 3.5 days of 125mg Test and 100 EQ. And thats only 5 weeks. You won't see enough muscle growth at such low doses to make it worth it. It would give you a slight edge in the gym, and with proper diet/training, you could see gains. But for all the hassle, and the fact that you'll loose alot of gains during and after pct, I would want to gain the most out of the cycle. I would either get more, or run a quick 3 week, higher dose (700-750mg test week) cycle then proper pct. What is the ratio of Test/EQ?

How much of your 12-13 lbs was fat?>

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

How much of your 12-13 lbs was fat?>

I didn't use a fat caliper or anything, but not much. Clean diet. Ate as much as I could all day. I have a fast metabolism and I'm skinny naturally. I wouldn't say I put on that much fat compared to muscle at all.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

I didn't use a fat caliper or anything, but not much. Clean diet. Ate as much as I could all day. I have a fast metabolism and I'm skinny naturally. I wouldn't say I put on that much fat compared to muscle at all.

Sorry bro , but that's highly unlikely. You would be lucky to gain 4lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks on a long ester. You do a disservice by advocating 3 week cycles using long esters and supporting your advice with exaggerated stats.

**thatguyinthegym** · 06-21-2012, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

Sorry bro , but that's highly unlikely. You would be lucky to gain 4lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks on a long ester. You do a disservice by advocating 3 week cycles using long esters and supporting your advice with exaggerated stats.

So keep the dosage lower for a longer amount of time considering it's enanthate ?

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by thatguyinthegym

So keep the dosage lower for a longer amount of time considering it's enanthate?

Yes. Long esters need to be run at least 10-12 weeks.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

Sorry bro , but that's highly unlikely. You would be lucky to gain 4lbs of lean mass in 3 weeks on a long ester. You do a disservice by advocating 3 week cycles using long esters and supporting your advice with exaggerated stats.

Don't knock it till you try it. I did it. I gained. If you read back through recent threads on short burst cycles, one of the vets on here even said that you will see gains from longer esters in burst cycles. They can be used but shorter esters are obviously better. If you wanna look for the thread, its had recent posts within the past month and a half. I'm too lazy to look for it. And I know what I know from my own experience. Have you ever tried a 3/4 week cycle of a longer estered test at twice your normal dosage? How is that a diservice? He asked "would there be any benefit?" I took that as "Will I see any gains?" From my experience, you can see good gains from that short of a cycle at the right dose/diet/training/sleep. How would you know I'm exagerating my stats? Plus, if you read my initial response, you'd see that I said "Your best bet is to get more Test E....you would benefit greatly if you had more gear, but in my experience, you can make decent gains with one 10 ml bottle of Test"

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 02:25 AM

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ast+and+cruise

From the thread... My man Marcus300 posted

Compounds- Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more. Short ester's and fast acting compounds are used and the exact compounds depends on what your trying to achieve but normally its Test based or what you respond best to, 2 /3 compounds are ran at a time but no need to run loads, keep them limited less is better,Ive even known guys used 1 compound with stunning results. HGH is increased to a high amount when cycle starts just like all the compounds. I did a study once with some BB's and the dosages range alot with all different HGH protocol's which is interesting reading but i can go into that at a later date.

I never dropped to shorter esters and I never did PCT. Like I said, I was young and uneducated. Lost all my gains within 3 months. However, I did gain quite a bit and It was effective for me at the time. So, done correctly... 3-5/6 week, high dose, long ester Tests can be effective. Would I recomened that to the OP over getting more Test and running a longer cycle... No.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

Don't knock it till you try it. I did it. I gained. If you read back through recent threads on short burst cycles, one of the vets on here even said that you will see gains from longer esters in burst cycles. They can be used but shorter esters are obviously better. If you wanna look for the thread, its had recent posts within the past month and a half. I'm too lazy to look for it. And I know what I know from my own experience. Have you ever tried a 3/4 week cycle of a longer estered test at twice your normal dosage? How is that a diservice? He asked "would there be any benefit?" I took that as "Will I see any gains?" From my experience, you can see good gains from that short of a cycle at the right dose/diet/training/sleep. How would you know I'm exagerating my stats? Plus, if you read my initial response, you'd see that I said "Your best bet is to get more Test E....you would benefit greatly if you had more gear, but in my experience, you can make decent gains with one 10 ml bottle of Test"

That's a lot of words. Two things: First, 3 weeks on a long ester is less than ideal. No one can argue any differently. Sure you can drink a can of coke by funneling it into your nose, but its less than ideal. Second, not ones gaining 12-13 pounds of mostly lean mass in 3 weeks.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

First, 3 weeks on a long ester is less than ideal. Second not ones gaining 12-13 pounds of mostly lean mass in 3 weeks.

1- I agree
2- You said "mostly lean mass" I said "Not much fat"

Again, I wouldn't recomened it over having more gear+lonbger cycle, but OP asked "would there be any benefit?" I took it as he meant "would I see any gains?" From personal experience... you can see good gains with right dosage/training/diet/sleep. And I'd put money on anyone gaining more muscle mass on a 3/4 week, Test 750 mg wkly, long estered burst cycle than what you recomended... 10 weeks at 250mgs a week!

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 02:48 AM

Sorry OP...I don't mean to get into a pissing match with BigTime PowerHouse. Just telling my personal experience. I hope you've gathered enough info to make a good decision. Make sure you have all PCT on hand + HCG and an AI.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

1- I agree
2- You said "mostly lean mass" I said "Not much fat"

Again, I wouldn't recomened it over having more gear+lonbger cycle, but OP asked "would there be any benefit?" I took it as he meant "would I see any gains?" From personal experience... you can see good gains with right dosage/training/diet/sleep. And I'd put money on anyone gaining more muscle mass on a 3/4 week, Test 750 mg wkly, long estered burst cycle than what you recomended... 10 weeks at 250mgs a week!

Excellent logic. Im sold. My next cycle is 2500mg test E for 1 week.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

Excellent logic. Im sold. My next cycle is 2500mg test E for 1 week.

Now you're just being stupid. Using sarcasm as a comback for an argument you lost.

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

Yes. Long esters need to be run at least 10-12 weeks.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ast+and+cruise

YOUR POINT... "Longer esters have to be run for 10-12 weeks"

MY POINT... Ideally, they should. But they can be used in short "burst" cycles, contrary to what one might think. To the OP... I recomended getting more Test E,ideally. If he decides to only use one bottle or can't get any more, yes... he still can see gains from 10 mls. A higher dosed, shorter cycle would reep more muscle mass than only 250mg a week for 10 weeks IMO. Shutting your nuts down for 10+weeks for less gains? I'd personally go with more gains/shorter cycle/easier recovery.

**PowerHouse1900** · 06-21-2012, 03:13 AM

You lost the argument when you were compelled to lie about gaining 12-13 in 3 weeks. It really doesn't matter what you said after that. Can't polish that turd.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

You lost the argument when you were compelled to lie about gaining 12-13 in 3 weeks. It really doesn't matter what you said after that. Can't polish that turd.

Everyone is different. Different body types/genetics. Naturally... off juice... I'm 6'4 about 190 lbs. I have the height where I could pack on another 50 lbs of muscle, and still look somewhat skinny. Not skinny, but not stocky is what I mean. I don't eat much naturally. I could get by on 3 small to medium size meals a day and stay at 190. When I want to gain as much weight as possible, I seriously up my food intake and stretch out my stomach. Basically double my calorie intake. I really don't feel like arguing with you anymore. Maybe you don't believe it because you don't know how to eat and it sounds impossible to you. But I'm telling you... I went from around 188/192 to 200/205 on 3 weeks of Test Cyp 750 mgs wk. I guess it was almost 4 weeks bc 3 X 750 = 1 shot left in the bottle. Week 4 1 shot 250mgs. So lets say 4 weeks. Anyway. I gained, I was happy with my gains. I put on a good amount of muscle. You've never tried it, so how would you know. If you did and didn't get results... you probably aren't eating right.

**Flacco** · 06-21-2012, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by PowerHouse1900

You lost the argument when you were compelled to lie about gaining 12-13 in 3 weeks. It really doesn't matter what you said after that. Can't polish that turd.

And Once again...
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ast+and+cruise

From the thread... My man Marcus300 posted

Compounds- Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle , i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT , i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more. Short ester's and fast acting compounds are used and the exact compounds depends on what your trying to achieve but normally its Test based or what you respond best to, 2 /3 compounds are ran at a time but no need to run loads, keep them limited less is better,Ive even known guys used 1 compound with stunning results. HGH is increased to a high amount when cycle starts just like all the compounds. I did a study once with some BB's and the dosages range alot with all different HGH protocol's which is interesting reading but i can go into that at a later date.