Anyone here have permanent damage from steroids?

[signals.lahoud]

Just curious, if any of you guys had thier hormones not go back to normal levels after a cycle? even with proper PCT. ive always been told that steroids arent dangerous if you do them correctly and dont abuse them, and its only dangerous if you go overboard and not responsibly. but now on this forum im hearing thats not true. people here are telling me that even a few standard cycles and your natural test may never come back... kinda scaring me a bit.

Or do you know anyone who this has happened to?

[gixxerboy1]

i've been on trt since 28.
yes there are plenty of people who did everything right an not recovered. There is no guarantee that you will be fine even if you take all the proper steps. Its just like anything in life. Someone could not do pct or cycle like shit and still be ok. And someone can do everything right once and be screwed.

[Capebuffalo]

Is ther anyone on TRT because of cycling early chime in to this. I know he could search post and find them but this is his opinion :

Join Date
Jun 2012
Posts
21
Listen seriously, its not that dangerous, as long as you cycle off in th standard time and do a pct , ur hormone levels and will go back to normal. I know guys who did a couple cycles of juice at 20-21, even guys in highschool, with no AI, and a half ass PCT of just clomid , and were perfectly fine afterwards, with normal hormones and nut size afterwards. the people who **** themselves up permanently are the retards who dont give a ****, dont cycle off, dont do a PCT, Some people here are gonna act like experts just cause they can repeat something they dont understand, and make you paranoid.

[signals.lahoud]

what's ur deal buddy? i ask a question and you make some jerk post for no reason on my thread?

[DanB]

He is just stating the facts, if you dont like his posts you can put him on ignore and you wont see them (p.s. the statement he quoted, you made on somebody else's thread so I dont know why your getting upset by him posting on yours)

[papa-g]

All you are doing Is trying to justify in your own mind doing something that is not right for you to help you sleep at night. Just because I know a guy who got shot in the head and has lived to tell about with next to zero affects, doesn't mean I wanna take one to the head too. Get real dude. All people here are saying is that at a young age no matter how "good" you do it it's still a gamble. So shy risk it. Now quick starting useless threads and try the search option and google.

[Capebuffalo]

You stated that in the other thread. I posted it because in my experience you don't get a lot of TRT guys here. They have their own section. I wanted to get you the most replies forum people who have done the exact things you are asking about. So you don't see 1 or 2. Want me to remove it? Ask me and it's gone.

[signals.lahoud]

i jsut said what ive always been told, that steroids arent dangerous if you dont abuse them. people here quickly told me that was completely wrong, now im just trying to see how risky by asking a simple question. is there a better place i should ask it?

[Flacco]

i jsut said what ive always been told, that steroids arent dangerous if you dont abuse them. people here quickly told me that was completely wrong, now im just trying to see how risky by asking a simple question. is there a better place i should ask it?

Peanuts aren't dangerous to most, but can kill that 1 person out of... whatever number statisically. AAS can be safe for some if you use them safely/responsibly. But for a few, say with pre exsisting heart problems/emotional issues/hormone deficiencies, they could be dangerous or even lethal. I'd say the first way to use them responsibly is to wait until your body starts declining in testosterone/hormone production. Most of the young guys on here arguing that they can use them responisbly are ignorant or just in denial. Using them before your hormones are in decline is irresponsible in the first place. Getting blood tests around the age of 25/26 is the responsible/safe thing to do. I can't say that I've been responsible... and now I'm dealing with the consequences. Just don't say nobody warned ya.

[frank13]

i jsut said what ive always been told, that steroids arent dangerous if you dont abuse them. people here quickly told me that was completely wrong, now im just trying to see how risky by asking a simple question. is there a better place i should ask it?

yes in the Ask DSM anything thread

[signals.lahoud]

Ok i posted this in the TRT forum, and cape sorry if i offended u, I was just repeating what iv always been told

[gonzo6183]

Well from my understanding and experience everyone goes backwards slightly after every cycle, some may be screwed straight away from one cycle done right while others may have minimal damage done over a long period of time. Me and everyone I know personally agrees that you never recover fully after reach cycle, even if its only 99% you are still going backwards. I do everything right and feel (along with bloodwork) that I go back a little each time and I expect to be on TRT in the coming years

[lovbyts]

There are actually numerous threads on it. Same question gets asked probably weekly and people get tired or answering the same thing all the time. Over the years I have seen 100s of post from people who did everything PERFECTLY, only used 1x and had problems for months or permanently.

I have seen lots of post from kids who say they know someone who used young and never had a problem but never is 3, 6, 9 months? Most of the time if someone has a problem they never tell anyone. Many people never put 2 + 2 together and figure out their problem has anything to do with their cycle and then there are a few who know what to watch for and catch things as they come up. There are also those who dont have any problems so to speak.

I have been on TRT for 5 years now and I'm still learning to regulate things and get everything just right. It's far from just taking this or that and everything is fine, it's a constant learning curve and figuring out how things work.

[NotConvincedYet]

There are actually numerous threads on it. Same question gets asked probably weekly and people get tired or answering the same thing all the time. Over the years I have seen 100s of post from people who did everything PERFECTLY, only used 1x and had problems for months or permanently.

I have seen lots of post from kids who say they know someone who used young and never had a problem but never is 3, 6, 9 months? Most of the time if someone has a problem they never tell anyone. Many people never put 2 + 2 together and figure out their problem has anything to do with their cycle and then there are a few who know what to watch for and catch things as they come up. There are also those who dont have any problems so to speak.

I have been on TRT for 5 years now and I'm still learning to regulate things and get everything just right. It's far from just taking this or that and everything is fine, it's a constant learning curve and figuring out how things work.

Great explanation.

I think people want the go ahead to say 'yes' you'll be fine. It unfortunately isn't that simple...

[lovbyts]

OH yeah I got distracted in the middle of my post. What I was getting to about the kids who say they know someone who used aas and had not problem 3, 6, 9 months is nothing. What about in 1, 2, 3, 5 years? There are many things that can come up and be related that people never figure out. LOTS of people end up with depression, loss of libido and many other things but never realize it is because they hormone levels are fvcked and they just end up on this or that pill to manage how they feel and never figure out why or fix it.

If you actually looked up all the people who had experienced some type of permanent side effect from using aas even 1x on this board the last 5 years I'm sure you could easily multiply that number by 100 and not even come close to what it really is. Most sides permanent or not are not ever associated.

[Capebuffalo]

Ok i posted this in the TRT forum, and cape sorry if i offended u, I was just repeating what iv always been told

We are cool. But your not a parrot. Read, learn ans ask. Don't come on regurgitation what someone told you if you don't know it to be fact. Like hey my buddy told me its not dangerous. So its not..And you can't tell me it is. You will only learn by asking and experience. We have answers and experience. And from our experiences are trying to keep people as healthy for as long as we can. And for the record I was early 30's before I touched anything. Just remember ask all you want. But if you don't like the answer don't get mad. If you have experience or proof lay it out for disscussion.. None of this you mad brah come at me. I am too old to even know wtf that means.

[GorillaNuts]

I did a pro hormone when I was 21, to get in shape after a bad motorcycle accident. I'm 25, paying for it ever since.

[Atomini]

I've posted this in a couple other threads of a similar nature, and I think I need to post it here as well:

The truth is, the potential side effects of steroid use are MOSTLY dose and duration related. Unfortunately, it's that very fact that prompts a lot of these guys here (mostly the new guys, but it even plagues experienced vets as well) to consider this particular drug use an almost benign endeavor. No one thinks they take too much. Everyone believes they have things under control. Problems only happen to the "other guy." And it's very very easy to go down that very slippery slope of thinking, and think that what you're doing is okay or that you're never taking too much just because you 'haven't had any problems so far'.

Attempting to set a guideline for responsible use of steroids isn't unlike setting boundaries for responsible alcohol use - it's too ambiguous and open to interpretation. No one ever wakes up one morning and says; "I'm going to be an alcoholic!" But it happens to millions of people each year. The same can be said for steroid use. Thousands upon thousands of men and women have sworn "I want to do just ONE cycle !" or "i'll never do more than X mg per week or stack more than X amount of compounds". Nice try. But once you've dipped into that bag of tricks, it's difficult to resist its allure and subsequent cycles are almost sure to follow. The better the gains, the greater the temptation to push the envelope further. And once you get used to feeling like Superman, it's tough to go back to being David Spade. That's when you've got a problem, whether you're willing to admit it or not. The only sane approach to steroid use, for those of us who've already decided to take the plunge, is to use them in a judicious fashion following certain stipulations. One of those stipulations being: if you're too young, stay away as long as you can until your body has matured enough and you're ready!

Once again, parameters become blurred by the individual's ability to rationalize. A tweak here and an alteration there won't make much of a difference, will it? That's what these new guys seem to be doing (even before they start their first cycle might I add!). Maybe. Maybe not. But only by staying within the boundaries can you be sure (or as close to it as possible) to avoid contraindications.

[freddy1418]

Is ther anyone on TRT because of cycling early chime in to this. I know he could search post and find them but this is his opinion :

Join Date
Jun 2012
Posts
21
Listen seriously, its not that dangerous, as long as you cycle off in th standard time and do a pct , ur hormone levels and will go back to normal. I know guys who did a couple cycles of juice at 20-21, even guys in highschool, with no AI, and a half ass PCT of just clomid , and were perfectly fine afterwards, with normal hormones and nut size afterwards. the people who **** themselves up permanently are the retards who dont give a ****, dont cycle off, dont do a PCT, Some people here are gonna act like experts just cause they can repeat something they dont understand, and make you paranoid.

Lol.. bet he feels dumb... can we say EATING HIS WORDS.... do your own research and figure it out if your gonna repeat what any one person tells you... or are you a parrot ??? Not tryi g to be rude but you offended people on the forum and you deserve a lil tightening up

[swm1972]

OH yeah I got distracted in the middle of my post. What I was getting to about the kids who say they know someone who used aas and had not problem 3, 6, 9 months is nothing. What about in 1, 2, 3, 5 years? There are many things that can come up and be related that people never figure out. LOTS of people end up with depression, loss of libido and many other things but never realize it is because they hormone levels are fvcked and they just end up on this or that pill to manage how they feel and never figure out why or fix it.

If you actually looked up all the people who had experienced some type of permanent side effect from using aas even 1x on this board the last 5 years I'm sure you could easily multiply that number by 100 and not even come close to what it really is. Most sides permanent or not are not ever associated.

I'm not saying AAS can't be dangerous and I'm not saying the side effects that appear after 3-5 years can't be AAS related, but how do you know that that one cycle 5 years ago has anything to do with a side effect all those years later? It is possible, but I see people say I did x five years ago and y was fine until today and now z has happened. Just because there is an x and y doesn't mean it is in any way related to z.

[Atomini]

I'm not saying AAS can't be dangerous and I'm not saying the side effects that appear after 3-5 years can't be AAS related, but how do you know that that one cycle 5 years ago has anything to do with a side effect all those years later? It is possible, but I see people say I did x five years ago and y was fine until today and now z has happened. Just because there is an x and y doesn't mean it is in any way related to z.

This is very true. This is what is known as the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc, and we all must be careful not to fall into this! It is latin for "after this, therefore because of this". For those of you who don't understand, what it refers to is: "Since this event followed event 1, then event 2 must have been caused by the first".

I find a lot of people in the steroid-using community fall into this. It's also a severe case of jumping to conclusions far too quickly. Just because someone has endocrine disruptions at 28 years of age, and he happened to do a cycle when he is 17 years old, does not mean that you automatically assume that these disruptions are caused by his cycle from his teenage years. Though it is a likely possibility to be considered, you need more INVESTIGATION and EVIDENCE into the matter. Blood tests, questioning him about anything else he has used or done in the past as well as currently, etc. For all you know, if this hypothetical individual did NOT do a steroid cycle at 17 years of age, he might have still had an endocrine disruption at 28 due to a genetic mutation of some sort? There are many possibilities and 'what-ifs' that must be answered.

We don't know these things for certain, and it bothers me immensely when people here fall into the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but the idea here is that we know AAS use during teenage years (and in general before the body's endocrine system is fully matured) is not good and has a high probability of presenting problems later on in life. Therefore, we want to minimize the likelihood of future damage by advising individuals not to cycle at too early of an age.

Once again, everybody... please do not fall into post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, as it is very easy to do so concerning this subject.

[Capebuffalo]

This is very true. This is what is known as the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc, and we all must be careful not to fall into this! It is latin for "after this, therefore because of this". For those of you who don't understand, what it refers to is: "Since this event followed event 1, then event 2 must have been caused by the first".

I find a lot of people in the steroid-using community fall into this. It's also a severe case of jumping to conclusions far too quickly. Just because someone has endocrine disruptions at 28 years of age, and he happened to do a cycle when he is 17 years old, does not mean that you automatically assume that these disruptions are caused by his cycle from his teenage years. Though it is a likely possibility to be considered, you need more INVESTIGATION and EVIDENCE into the matter. Blood tests, questioning him about anything else he has used or done in the past as well as currently, etc. For all you know, if this hypothetical individual did NOT do a steroid cycle at 17 years of age, he might have still had an endocrine disruption at 28 due to a genetic mutation of some sort? There are many possibilities and 'what-ifs' that must be answered.

We don't know these things for certain, and it bothers me immensely when people here fall into the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but the idea here is that we know AAS use during teenage years (and in general before the body's endocrine system is fully matured) is not good and has a high probability of presenting problems later on in life. Therefore, we want to minimize the likelihood of future damage by advising individuals not to cycle at too early of an age.

Once again, everybody... please do not fall into post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, as it is very easy to do so concerning this subject.

You keep posting things like this and I will have to stop posting. Your going to give me an inferiority complex. Well said my friend.

[guitario]

This is my theory, and it just that. That probably 95% of it is genetic. Like has been said previously, you can do the safest cycle and best pct and cause permanent shut down or do a reckless cycle and no pct and recover fully. Nobody knows which end of the spectrum they belong to until they do their first cycle so it's always best to cover your bases and follow the tried and tested advice. If you do belong to the permanent shut down category, then at least you give yourself the best possible chance of some recovery with a solid pct.

My second theory is that most people recover fine with or without pct, but again nobody knows and it's impossible to know until it is too late. A good analogy is recreational stimulant drugs. We have all read the stories of people dying after just one pill, and yes it is rare, but most sensible people will never bother risking it because.. well, those that died thought they would be fine didn't they!

Just thinking out loud.

[Gi812Many]

I destroyed myself when I was younger. I can not remember what my levels were at nearly 10 years after using AAS heavily from about 17-21. Look back in my post but I believe my test levels were around 230. So im on TRT for the remaining years I have left which im completely content with. My quality of life went through the roof when I started back.

[swm1972]

I destroyed myself when I was younger. I can not remember what my levels were at nearly 10 years after using AAS heavily from about 17-21. Look back in my post but I believe my test levels were around 230. So im on TRT for the remaining years I have left which im completely content with. My quality of life went through the roof when I started back.

I was prescribed hrt before I ever touch steroids. I agree with your outlook on it as well. The best thing that ever happened to me was hrt. It completely altered every facet of my life. I had more energy, lost fat, gained confidence, etc. it was like a domino effect. One bad attribute fell one right after another. I don't think the word content does my feeling about hrt justice. That's why when I see a thread and see someone state 'you could end up on hrt for the rest of your life!' I know they mean it as a negative and a warning of possible consequences, but to me it somehow falls short.

[austinite]

Yep. Been on TRT since age 31. Post hyper pigmentation all over my back and shoulders that no derm can fix. This is all from a single-uneducated cycle I did when I was a kid. Even with TRT, I still have to use viagra. I'm only 36.

the pigmentation is worse than being on TRT. Can't take my shirt off in public. Ever.

[stephenschmidt1]

I'm not sure if I have permanent damage but I do think that genetically I am on the slow scale of recovering! I did my first cycle of test only and proper pct! While I was on it I felt like superman and I've been off for 7 weeks now and still haven't recovered. I'm about to be 24 and I can't even get it up with Viagra!
At this point I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I can recover but it has def scared the shit out of me!

[Capebuffalo]

I'm not sure if I have permanent damage but I do think that genetically I am on the slow scale of recovering! I did my first cycle of test only and proper pct! While I was on it I felt like superman and I've been off for 7 weeks now and still haven't recovered. I'm about to be 24 and I can't even get it up with Viagra!
At this point I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I can recover but it has def scared the shit out of me!

7 weeks. It can take a while. So that's 2 weeks then 4 weeks pct and another week. It will and can take a while everyone is different. What test did you run ? What was your pct? How old are you? Sorry for inquest just want the OP to have all the info. If he's still reading his thread.

[Gi812Many]

Swm1972 lets use the word estatic in place of content...lol

[stephenschmidt1]

I took Test Cyp for 10 weeks at 500-750mg/week
Waited 18 days after my last injection did a 4 week PCT nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/100/50/50
I have been off PCT for a week now.
I was 4 months shy of 24 when I started. I will be turning 24 next week.
Yeah I'm not saying that I'm not gonna recover but the lack or confidence, libido, energy, and the mood swings ive gone through the last 5 weeks have scared me. I don't ever want to feel like this. I seriously just feel gloomy everyday.

[swm1972]

Swm1972 lets use the word estatic in place of content...lol

That might be a better choice of words for me.