Does taking a DHT blocker make your cycle less effective... Not really but yes.

[Swifto]

JAMA. 2012 Mar 7;307(9):931-9.

Effect of testosterone supplementation with and without a dual 5α-reductase inhibitor on fat-free mass in men with suppressed testosterone production: a randomized controlled trial.

Bhasin S, Travison TG, Storer TW, Lakshman K, Kaushik M, Mazer NA, Ngyuen AH, Davda MN, Jara H, Aakil A, Anderson S, Knapp PE, Hanka S, Mohammed N, Daou P, Miciek R, Ulloor J, Zhang A, Brooks B, Orwoll K, Hede-Brierley L, Eder R, Elmi A, Bhasin G, Collins L, Singh R, Basaria S.
Source

Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany St, Boston, MA 02118, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

CONTEXT:

Steroid 5α-reductase inhibitors are used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia and androgenic alopecia, but the role of 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in mediating testosterone 's effects on muscle, sexual function, erythropoiesis, and other androgen-dependent processes remains poorly understood.

OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether testosterone's effects on muscle mass, strength, sexual function, hematocrit level, prostate volume, sebum production, and lipid levels are attenuated when its conversion to DHT is blocked by dutasteride (an inhibitor of 5α-reductase type 1 and 2).

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS:

The 5α-Reductase Trial was a randomized controlled trial of healthy men aged 18 to 50 years comparing placebo plus testosterone enthanate with dutasteride plus testosterone enanthate from May 2005 through June 2010.

INTERVENTIONS:

Eight treatment groups received 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks plus placebo (4 groups) or 2.5 mg/d of dutasteride (4 groups).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

The primary outcome was change in fat-free mass; secondary outcomes: changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels.

RESULTS:

A total of 139 men were randomized; 102 completed the 20-week intervention. Men assigned to dutasteride were similar at baseline to those assigned to placebo. The mean fat-free mass gained by the dutasteride groups was 0.6 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.2 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 2.6 kg (95% CI, 0.9 to 4.3 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.8 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.9 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 7.1 kg (95% CI, 6.0 to 8.2 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The mean fat-free mass gained by the placebo groups was 0.8 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.7 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 3.5 kg (95% CI, 2.1 to 4.8 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.7 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.5 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 8.1 kg (95% CI, 6.7 to 9.5 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The dose-adjusted differences between the dutasteride and placebo groups for fat-free mass were not significant (P = .18). Changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels did not differ between groups.

CONCLUSION:

Changes in fat-free mass in response to graded testosterone doses did not differ in men in whom DHT was suppressed by dutasteride from those treated with placebo, indicating that conversion of testosterone to DHT is not essential for mediating its anabolic effects on muscle.

[Swifto]

"Test Enan 600mg/wk + Dutastride group gained 7.1kg of fat-ree mass."

"Test Enan 600mg/wk + placebo group gained 8.1kg of fat-free mass."

No change in anything else...

[sikkestkuntouthere]

Man this is awesome. Means i can finally run test when i decide to cycle without worrying about my hair and still keep gains.

I wonder if its effect will be much weaker with finasteride. So the fat free mass gained wouldve been closer since fina only blocks 1 enzyme

But did these men have a much softer look? Since dht is needed for muscle hardness

Also this beats all peoples assumptions on other boards and this board. Most assumed taking dht blockers only gives u 1/3rd of the gains

[castiron]

you are chock full of info. great post.

[Swifto]

Man this is awesome. Means i can finally run test when i decide to cycle without worrying about my hair and still keep gains.

I wonder if its effect will be much weaker with finasteride. So the fat free mass gained wouldve been closer since fina only blocks 1 enzyme

But did these men have a much softer look? Since dht is needed for muscle hardness

Also this beats all peoples assumptions on other boards and this board. Most assumed taking dht blockers only gives u 1/3rd of the gains

Read the study. There was a 1kg difference in 20 weeks, which is not a lot, but something.

The difference isnt a lot over 20 weeks if you think about it. I wouldnt worry about it being less effective.

DHT is responsible for a lot of other mechanics though. Strength, aggression, labido, estrogen control to name a few...

you are chock full of info. great post.

Not really, I was bored and on pubmed.

[Wazzap]

Man this is awesome. Means i can finally run test when i decide to cycle without worrying about my hair and still keep gains.

I wonder if its effect will be much weaker with finasteride. So the fat free mass gained wouldve been closer since fina only blocks 1 enzyme

But did these men have a much softer look? Since dht is needed for muscle hardness

Also this beats all peoples assumptions on other boards and this board. Most assumed taking dht blockers only gives u 1/3rd of the gains

I would never ever consider taking Finasteride/Propecia. That stuff will seriously f*ck you up in the long run. Just read this thread on bodybuilding.com:

forum.bodybuilding(DOT)com/showthread.php?t=145148191&page=1 (cannot post links yet)

If that's not enough for you go take a look at the propeciahelp.com forums. Nothing but horror stories. I would never recommend someone to use that stuff. Your d*ck/libido is more important than your hair.

[slimshady01]

Great post.

I was on Fina for 8 years and came off about 4 years ago and went a natural route that did well, even on gear.

Well recently and after trying test at 1g for 4 weeks i noticed massive shedding and thinning. I started propecia again and obviously wont ever go up to 1g again. Im happy at 500 with other hair safe AAS like Anavar Tbol and Deca "i would stop fina with deca".


Ive always wondered about gains and Propecia...

Thanks for this post Swifto you the man.

One thing is and im not sure its the same for everyone, Fina will raise my estrogen through the roof "at least is did when i was natty" IM not sure if the same happens being on TRT but i take light dose of aromasin while cruising/

[Razor]

Swifto just found this, Jimmy posted a link, thank you for writing this up, should be a sticky somewhere