Convince me not to run an AAS cycle

[rcdudegermy10]

Here's some cliffs:

Age: 20 (21 in November)

Cycle Experience: #1) I ran H-drol (prohormone) 75mg for 6 weeks, nolva for PCT (I basically did 150% the normal dosage on Nolva) and I had clomid and letro in case I needed it. #2)I've set up a Superdrol cycle to start mid September (will have nolva, clomid, and letro all on hand).

Lifting Experience: I've lifted consistently for the past 3 years (3 yrs in August), and a little on and off before then. I played baseball and basketball in h.s.

Height: 6'3"
Weight: 230 (Currently on EC stack to and I'm trying to cut to around 220ish)
Bench: 315x3
Squat: 300x1
Arms: 17ish"

Diet: Changes depending on bulk/cut phases but I always get in 240+ grams of protein per day

I've uploaded two pics so my physique can be judged as well.

I'm seriously thinking about running test e for 12 weeks 500mg/week starting around next summer. I hear a lot of people on here and in real life, saying "you're too young" etc etc. I just don't understand the potential problems that would come with being young. I understand if my endocrine system isn't fully developed or if my hormones aren't done balancing but assuming that's not a problem, would there be anything else?. I've read a lot of the "educational threads" and the newbie started pack thoroughly but they really don't explain why I shouldn't. I only see potential problems arising if I don't run the proper PCT.

Also I couldn't find a lot of information on how or why one would need to run TRT/HRT after running multiple cycles. I'm assuming it damages the endocrine system somehow, but I've struggled to find solid information on this. I kind of thought that was a result of people running stuff the wrong way and not being properly prepared in their PCT.

NOT trying to be a know-it-all teen or whatever, but those were just a few things I couldn't find solid answers to. I appreciate the help and "discouragement" lulz

[Times Roman]

Mate,
I'm not your father, so if you want to take steroids, go for it. It's your body to screw up as you wish.
Good luck!
---Roman

[gixxerboy1]

sh)


I just don't understand the potential problems that would come with being young. I understand if my endocrine system isn't fully developed or if my hormones aren't done balancing but assuming that's not a problem, would there be anything else?. I've read a lot of the "educational threads" and the newbie started pack thoroughly but they really don't explain why I shouldn't. I only see potential problems arising if I don't run the proper PCT.

Why would you assume that?
Just because you do everything correct. Take every precaution, do the best pct out there. There is no guarantee you will recover fully or at all.

Read this
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g-and-Steroids

[Times Roman]

------------

[gixxerboy1]

Mate,
I'm not your father, so if you want to take steroids, go for it. It's your body to screw up as you wish.
Good luck!
---Roman

Honestly thats about how i feel nowaday's. There are 3 of these threads a day or more. Really if they dont car about their health why should i? Or get in a fight to protect them?

I figured i'll give this a little effort and see if he is open to reason.

[Atomini]

Here is what I think:

You're downplaying the side effects. You're looking at this game through rose-colored glasses. You're thinking to yourself "nah, I won't be the one to mess up my endocrine system - that always happens to the other guy." Well, you very well may walk out unscathed, but are you really willing to play that gamble and bet the chances? It's a gamble, friend! And the younger you are, the more the odds are NOT in your favor. That means younger = higher odds of damaging yourself. I'd wager that the odds of screwing yourself up is probably tantamount to blindfolding yourself and running across a major road and arriving on the other side of the street without getting hit by a car. And your guarantees are equally unknown! You HAVE NO IDEA and no way of testing if your body has completely matured by your age. This is why we have to give general guidelines such as no cycling until the age of 24 at least. It's a generalization to cover all bases!

Likewise, I can't tell you if you wait until 24 that you aren't going to mess yourself up permanently, but the chances are far greater that you will be fully matured by that age and walk out of your cycles unscathed compared to cycling at too young of an age! There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes. I can definitely say that you have a better chance of not developing contraindications if you wait until 25 years of age and take the proper precautions when you cycle, doing proper PCT , etc. Any way you slice it, you are taking a gamble when you decide to start doing cycles of AAS. The idea here is that when you gamble, it's a game of odds. When you spin the roulette wheel of anabolic steroids , you can tip the odds in your favor by taking all of the proper safety precautions and following all healthy stipulations and guidelines for anabolic steroid use . This way, you can guarantee yourself that you will have the lowest possible chance of anything permanently damaging happening. But you cannot GUARANTEE that you are 100% safe.

Some people may do everything properly to the T and mess themselves up for good, because they just had the unfortunate genetics to respond badly. Other people may do a cycle of extreme doses, have no side effects, and furthermore stay on for a year, and come off with no PCT and never have problems for the rest of their lives. Some people are allergic to peanuts and will die from anaphylactic shock just by smelling the scent, and some won't. Such is life.

[rcdudegermy10]

The "spam" software isn't letting me quote you guys

Roman- lulz, thanks for the luck brah! I don't plan on screwing up my body, and if it really seems best to wait then I will.


gixxerboy1- Will read. I'd just assume that because of age/maturity. I know 21 may not be most mature age and obviously 24 would probably be more mature. I'll keep getting my diet right and lifting natty, and run maybe a ph every 1.5 years or so


Atomini-This is pretty much what I was thinking. I've read things before that say your endocrine system never recovers fully, and that your test will never be as high as it was pre cycle. I'm not sure if that's just broscience or if there is some truth to it. ALOT of the articles that I've read say 24. I'm not in a huge rush but I would obviously like my gainz now.

[Atomini]

The "spam" software isn't letting me quote you guys

Roman- lulz, thanks for the luck brah! I don't plan on screwing up my body, and if it really seems best to wait then I will.


gixxerboy1- Will read. I'd just assume that because of age/maturity. I know 21 may not be most mature age and obviously 24 would probably be more mature. I'll keep getting my diet right and lifting natty, and run maybe a ph every 1.5 years or so


Atomini-This is pretty much what I was thinking. I've read things before that say your endocrine system never recovers fully, and that your test will never be as high as it was pre cycle. I'm not sure if that's just broscience or if there is some truth to it. ALOT of the articles that I've read say 24. I'm not in a huge rush but I would obviously like my gainz now.

I would say try to hold off for as long as you can. Like Times Roman said, it's ultimately up to you and if you are so dead-set on doing it... you're going to do it anyways. I'm telling you, think about it for a second, you're only 3 years away from the reccomended age. 3 years flies by like nothing. 3 years could give you a good amount of great natural gains. 3 years is NOT A LONG TIME! Think about it.

What I mentioned is not broscience. As I said, it's a general guideline for safe boundaries of use, there is a lot of truth to it but there are also exceptions to the rule - but absolutely DO NOT think to yourself that you're one of those exceptions! You don't know that, and there is no possible way of going through a test that would grant you that knowledge. Are you going to spin the roulette wheel on that? You'd be betting your future well being - and you don't even know the odds! You're gambling blind with this situation. At least in a poker game, there's more than blind gambling involved in your success. You don't have that here.

You said it yourself, you're not in a huge rush. 3 years, bro. 3 years is nothing, it goes by like a flash when you look back. Use these 3 years to set goals and stepping stones to make the best natural gains before you start by the age of 24 or 25.

[kamilo1975]

Do what you want. Just because your young doesn't mean that your screw up your body, not everyone is the same.

[< <Samson> >]

Roids will get you jacked - really. . . But, it is not without sacrifice.

[Atomini]

I'm just going to quickly copy and paste something i've posted in other threads like this I come across where guys who are too young are looking to juice,

The truth is, the potential side effects of steroid use are MOSTLY dose and duration related. Unfortunately, it's that very fact that prompts a lot of these guys here (mostly the new guys, but it even plagues experienced vets as well) to consider this particular drug use an almost benign endeavor. No one thinks they take too much. Everyone believes they have things under control. Problems only happen to the "other guy." And it's very very easy to go down that very slippery slope of thinking, and think that what you're doing is okay or that you're never taking too much just because you 'haven't had any problems so far'.

Attempting to set a guideline for responsible use of steroids isn't unlike setting boundaries for responsible alcohol use - it's too ambiguous and open to interpretation. No one ever wakes up one morning and says; "I'm going to be an alcoholic!" But it happens to millions of people each year. The same can be said for steroid use. Thousands upon thousands of men and women have sworn "I want to do just ONE cycle !" or "i'll never do more than X mg per week or stack more than X amount of compounds". Nice try. But once you've dipped into that bag of tricks, it's difficult to resist its allure and subsequent cycles are almost sure to follow. The better the gains, the greater the temptation to push the envelope further. And once you get used to feeling like Superman, it's tough to go back to being David Spade. That's when you've got a problem, whether you're willing to admit it or not. The only sane approach to steroid use, for those of us who've already decided to take the plunge, is to use them in a judicious fashion following certain stipulations. One of those stipulations being: if you're too young, stay away as long as you can until your body has matured enough and you're ready!

Once again, parameters become blurred by the individual's ability to rationalize. A tweak here and an alteration there won't make much of a difference, will it? That's what these new guys seem to be doing (even before they start their first cycle might I add!). Maybe. Maybe not. But only by staying within the boundaries can you be sure (or as close to it as possible) to avoid contraindications.

[kamilo1975]

I'm tired of these guys saying if your young you'll screw up your system. I tried steroid at the age of 19 the first time, I'm 37 now and everything is fine

[ironbeck]

Do what ever the hell you want!! Just be careful.

[kamilo1975]

Run it!!!!!

[kamilo1975]

Don't be a pu$&y

[Atomini]

I'm tired of these guys saying if your young you'll screw up your system. I tried steroid at the age of 19 the first time, I'm 37 now and everything is fine

Buddy, if you'll look at my post, i'm not saying that if you're too young you'll screw up your system for sure!

I'm trying to set a standpoint for him in the sense that there are those out there who have done cycles very young and walked away unscathed into their older age. But there are also a lot of people who DIDN'T! And there are plenty of people that did screw themselves up, of which it was determined that their hormone augmentation did throw off their body's HPTA. With that sense of knowledge, what i'm getting at is:

It's a gamble. And you don't know if you will be one of those that turn out with 'everything fine'. You don't know if you'll screw yourself up. I've been at this game long enough to have seen both sides of the issue.

And the best way to be reasonably sure that you won't throw off your HPTA for the rest of your life is to wait until the determined age range where we know the body's endocrine systems have matured and normalized, which is about the age of 24 for MOST. The big issue here is there is no test to determine if your HPTA has matured yet. Hell, some people might be big exceptions to the rule and their HPTA might not have matured until the age of 30! Just as there are some who may have matured at the age of 19! But, you don't know that.

[< <Samson> >]

I'll convince you. . . Please, don't, no, it's bad for you . . . Blah Blah


You aren't my kid. . . Do it, jet jacked.

[grilla]

RC-

You're not strong enough to start cycling. If squat: 300x1 isn't a typo, you simply haven't put in enough time under the bar.

I'd suggest that if you put in at least a couple of years training hard and HEAVY and build a solid base, you will be much more
pleased with the results your first real cycle brings.

FWIW, I've seen a ton of young guys start cycles over the last 25 years; some are screwed up now, some aren't. I haven't run a study,
but anecdotally it seems that the stronger guys are when they start, the more time they have in under the bar, the better they do long
term on cycle.

Good luck.

grilla

[ironbeck]

Your gonna get a whole bunch of gains you will lose immediately after coming off and you will be depressed, you had better put some more nature time in.
I have seen it dozens of times.

[Atomini]

RC-

You're not strong enough to start cycling. If squat: 300x1 isn't a typo, you simply haven't put in enough time under the bar.

I'd suggest that if you put in at least a couple of years training hard and HEAVY and build a solid base, you will be much more
pleased with the results your first real cycle brings.

FWIW, I've seen a ton of young guys start cycles over the last 25 years; some are screwed up now, some aren't. I haven't run a study,
but anecdotally it seems that the stronger guys are when they start, the more time they have in under the bar, the better they do long
term on cycle.

Good luck.

grilla

Actually i'd just like to clarify what I highlighted in bold as fact.

I remember reading some actual medical studies, in which they have demonstrated improved performance with anabolic steroids in experienced weight lifters who were capable of training with heavier weights and producing relatively greater muscle tension during exercise than novice subjects. The effectiveness of anabolic steroids is dependent upon unbound receptor sites in muscle. Intense strength training may increase the number of unbound receptor sites. This would increase the effectiveness of anabolic steroids.

I will try and search for the studies now that you reminded me of them, but it stands to reason that in all of these studies that experienced athletes responded far greater to their cycles and made far greater gains than novices. It's not just anecdotal evidence.

I'll report back when/if I find these studies. Off to pubmed I go!

[BigBadWolf]

I couldn't care less if you shoot yourself or smoke crack but there are people that do. I'm not one of them.

[rcdudegermy10]

Atomini - thanks for the replies brah, your posts have been really helpful. I'm not in a huge rush to get jacked, but it would be really nice lolz. Mostly dose and duration related is pretty much what I was thinking as well (kind of a mistake of that person). I'll keep reading and take your posts into major consideration. It sounds like getting messed up has to do mostly with the endocrine system not being fully developed, which is what I originally thought and it makes sense. Obviously the older you are, the more developed the system is and the less of chance of something going wrong. I don't ever plan on competing, lifting is just a hobby to me and I want to take it pretty far.

I'll probably go ahead and run the superdrol prohormone, since I've already got it and everything is set up. I know phs are similar to steroids (some people told me they were worse mainly due to the liver) and it says to be 21 or older to run it. That's pretty much the reason I run 150% of the dose. Ex normal nolva would be 40/40/20/20 but I'll run 70/60/40/40/20/20 to try and be on the safe side. I've got letro for gyno and may run .25-.5mg starting on the second week depending on how it goes.

[rcdudegermy10]

RC-

You're not strong enough to start cycling. If squat: 300x1 isn't a typo, you simply haven't put in enough time under the bar.

I'd suggest that if you put in at least a couple of years training hard and HEAVY and build a solid base, you will be much more
pleased with the results your first real cycle brings.

FWIW, I've seen a ton of young guys start cycles over the last 25 years; some are screwed up now, some aren't. I haven't run a study,
but anecdotally it seems that the stronger guys are when they start, the more time they have in under the bar, the better they do long
term on cycle.

Good luck.

grilla

Interesting, so the more muscle you have the more effective they may be. The 300x1 isn't a typo lolz. Not to be lazy but I only squat like once every 1.5 weeks. No thanks on the back/knee problems. I'll start squatting more though. I bench 315x3, 275x7, 225x15ish

I may be better off lifting natty for a couple more years.

[Atomini]

Atomini - thanks for the replies brah, your posts have been really helpful. I'm not in a huge rush to get jacked, but it would be really nice lolz. Mostly dose and duration related is pretty much what I was thinking as well (kind of a mistake of that person). I'll keep reading and take your posts into major consideration. It sounds like getting messed up has to do mostly with the endocrine system not being fully developed, which is what I originally thought and it makes sense. Obviously the older you are, the more developed the system is and the less of chance of something going wrong. I don't ever plan on competing, lifting is just a hobby to me and I want to take it pretty far.

I'll probably go ahead and run the superdrol prohormone, since I've already got it and everything is set up. I know phs are similar to steroids (some people told me they were worse mainly due to the liver) and it says to be 21 or older to run it. That's pretty much the reason I run 150% of the dose. Ex normal nolva would be 40/40/20/20 but I'll run 70/60/40/40/20/20 to try and be on the safe side. I've got letro for gyno and may run .25-.5mg starting on the second week depending on how it goes.

You know what? If you're going to go ahead and run something anyways, please, please, PLEASE do a test cycle and stay away from the prohormones.

I understand you've already heard they are worse on the liver, which is true. But there are so many worse problems with prohormones that wreack havoc on your body's systems, and the liver issues are just one thing (one VERY big bad thing might I add). If you're going to do this, do it right. For your own sake, don't do prohormones. Straight anabolic steroids are so much safer...

[rcdudegermy10]

aotmini- lol confusing brah is confusing! I ran one h-drol cycle already about a year ago. Everything turned out fine. I just run my pct dosed extra high. I'm a pretty big guy too, so I think the dosage will be lower in that respect. (Ex: if a 150lb dude did 500mg compared to a 225lb dude, theoretically the 225lb dude would get less effects)(I know that's how it works with pros anyways).

test e is the steriod I want to run. If it really is better than doing pros then I might as well do that. That's what attracted them to me in the first place is I heard they were safer, better and more effective for you than pros. I'm going to keep lifting natty at least until May of 2013, then summer 2013 is the time I was thinking.

I honestly feel like I would be fine running pros all day. The H-drol was a breeze. The thing about steroids that scared me was 1)injecting 2)I thought it shut down your system more 3)the major negative stigma surrounding them

[Atomini]

Of course you'd feel fine, depending on the dose and duration of the prohormone cycle. But make no mistake, there are things that prohormones are doing in your liver (and causing your liver to do) that are very undesireable. If you had bloodwork done before, during and after your PH cycle of h-drol, you'd definitely see first hand what was going on, and i'm sure your bloodwork readings would have been so much more whacked out than a cycle of test or something.

I won't bore you with the chemistry of what prohormones do inside your body (i've explained it in threads in the past many times), but suffice to say that if you ARE going to use anything, you should just do a simple cycle of test. In addition to the negative effects of PH, you'd get better gains from straight out AAS. Why bother putting money into something that yields less than desireable results and is far more damaging in comparison to something like a test cycle?

Either way, i'm glad you've decided to at least wait it out until May 2013. Perhaps by the time that date rolls along, you'll find that you're making great natural gains steadily and you might think to yourself that it may be more beneficial to continue naturally for a little while longer. Or you might think its time to do a cycle lol. In the end its up to you, but remember: make a smart and informed decision.

[Bonaparte]

Honestly thats about how i feel nowaday's. There are 3 of these threads a day or more. Really if they dont car about their health why should i? Or get in a fight to protect them?

I figured i'll give this a little effort and see if he is open to reason.

Being that I'm in the medical field now, I encourage morons everywhere to hurt themselves. Job security, baby!

[John Andrew]

Convince me not to rob a bank! I know my mate did it 27 times before he was caught! Stole millions of dollars and said it was the greatest high ever holding the gun and ordering the world to do as he wanted!

Of course he got caught, 20 years is a long time but what the hell, I am 57 and the last 20 years flew by. I am sure his time inside will be a dream.

How many more stupid things do you wish to be convinced of? You have made up your immature mind and you can destroy your immature body! I do not care.

Why do we teach our children anything? Its a waste of time because the children of today know all the answers!

[Flacco]

I'm tired of these guys saying if your young you'll screw up your system. I tried steroid at the age of 19 the first time, I'm 37 now and everything is fine

Thats a really cool car for a 37 year old LOL I can't imagine you're over 22

[Stosh_112]

U need someone to convince u not to run AAS??? That just says ur goin to do it anyway. Do ur research and ull convince urself that ur tooo young. Or maybe ur just an attention whore, if thats the case try pof. theres a lot of needy people there. lol

[Atomini]

the long term of steroids are overated anyway. these lies were constructed by jelouse people who did not want other people on steroids becasue they will look better than them, end of story

And from which university did you obtain your degree in endocrinology?

[Atomini]

where you get yours

Ridiculous. I am not going to waste time bantering with you.

I'm here to engage in intelligent scientific and medical study in this particular arena of endocrinology. I enjoy sharing my knowledge here in the effort to help people out and assist them in their hormone augmentation as safely as possible, and in turn gain knowledge from the dynamic of seeing how others respond to my advice and their cycles, etc.

Listening and responding to posts like yours, and others in this thread, is a waste of my time and makes me feel stupider.

[< <Samson> >]

Sir 1", we are here again. . . . .

[Atomini]

Pathetic. I'm done here.

You better watch it or you'll get banned. Go troll somewhere else.

[lovbyts]

The "spam" software isn't letting me quote you guys

Roman- lulz, thanks for the luck brah! I don't plan on screwing up my body, and if it really seems best to wait then I will.


gixxerboy1- Will read. I'd just assume that because of age/maturity. I know 21 may not be most mature age and obviously 24 would probably be more mature. I'll keep getting my diet right and lifting natty, and run maybe a ph every 1.5 years or so


Atomini-This is pretty much what I was thinking. I've read things before that say your endocrine system never recovers fully, and that your test will never be as high as it was pre cycle. I'm not sure if that's just broscience or if there is some truth to it. ALOT of the articles that I've read say 24. I'm not in a huge rush but I would obviously like my gainz now.

No one PLANS on it, it just happens and a LOT more frequent than most people know because most people will not admit it when it does. Bottom line it's up to you. If you were my son I'd knock the crap out of you or at least make it difficult enough you could, didnt have time or the money. If you are responsibly ready to run aas you had better be living in your own place, paying all your own bills, have your own medical and full time job so you dont come crying back to momma when something goes wrong.

You have had all the reasons presented to you so it's up to you.