is tren harder to recover from than deca ??

**hillbill78** · 07-09-2012, 08:35 AM

does tren shut you down harder than deca just i recovered ok from deca so should i be ok with tren ?

**rampaige77** · 07-09-2012, 08:52 AM

ive never had a recovery issue with anything & i use Tren more than anything else but im pretty sure your natural test will be shut down on any compound nomatter what it is just depends on dose & length of cycle . I usaly use low doses EOD example 100mg tren + 100mg test prop EOD

**Atomini** · 07-09-2012, 09:17 AM

Tren and deca will shut you down the same, pretty much. However, in general all exogenous androgens will cause your body to shut down or at the very least severely reduce its endogenous production. Tren and deca are both 19-nor compounds. Tren and deca are much like brother and sister.

**Capebuffalo** · 07-09-2012, 10:09 AM

Both can have long term effects on users whos htpa systems have not developed usually under 25

**ghettoboyd** · 07-09-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Both can have long term effects on users whos htpa systems have not developed usually under 25

agreed but i also feel the same way about anyone 25+ as well...19 nors can be a bitch to anyones chance of recovery...just saying...

**hillbill78** · 07-09-2012, 11:32 AM

without sounding a dick but i have heard that if your 21 and do a cycle you have a better chance to fully recover than say someone of the age of 27 ???

**Atomini** · 07-09-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by hillbill78

without sounding a dick but i have heard that if your 21 and do a cycle you have a better chance to fully recover than say someone of the age of 27 ???

You're going to open up a can of worms with that question. My first question concerning that to you is: where did you hear this from?

Without giving you a whole medical breakdown of the endocrine system of the human body and its development, my answer in a nutshell to your question is this:

IF and only if a 21 year old's endocrine system is fully developed and fully matured by the time he does a cycle, then yes, he will recover faster than someone at the age of 27. However, there is no 100% pinpoint way of knowing whether or not your endocrine system has fully matured by 21 - the person is taking a gamble with some odds that are largely not in his favor. We do know, however, that it is around the age of 24 whereby the body's endocrine system has fully matured. And with that being said, if you wait until you are 24 or 25, you have a greater chance of recovering properly and fully from a cycle. Again, you're gambling, but the odds are now far greater in your favor that you will recover properly compared to cycling prior to that age. And on the flipside to that coin, someone may have crappy genetics that is granting him slow maturation of his endocrine system, and he might not have a fully matured system until the age of 30! Highly unlikely, but still possible.

**rampaige77** · 07-09-2012, 01:03 PM

i dont know where you heard that but theres a buttload of guys on TRT here who used young n never fully recovered i would like to see the study of info thats stating this & how they aquired there data

**Atomini** · 07-09-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by rampaige77

i dont know where you heard that but theres a buttload of guys on TRT here who used young n never fully recovered i would like to see the study of info thats stating this & how they aquired there data

Precisely. If you cycle young, its a gamble in which the odds are very much against you. There have been people who have beat the odds - not everyone who cycles young gets screwed up for life. However, the vast majority do end up with inadequately recovered HPTA and permanent damage down the road, leading to TRT.

**Popeye's** · 07-09-2012, 01:30 PM

"However, there is no 100% pinpoint way of knowing whether or not your endocrine system has fully matured by 21"

We could always have a blood test once per month for 4 months and see if our hormonal level changes or not during those months! If a 21 years old sees no change in his hormonal levels, there is a pretty big chance his endocrine system has fully matured!

**Atomini** · 07-09-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Popeye's

"However, there is no 100% pinpoint way of knowing whether or not your endocrine system has fully matured by 21"

We could always have a blood test once per month for 4 months and see if our hormonal level changes or not during those months! If a 21 years old sees no change in his hormonal levels, there is a pretty big chance his endocrine system has fully matured!

That concept is fundamentally flawed, because hormone levels do not remain at a constant level for ANYONE at ANY age. This is why we have predetermined high, normal, and low ranges. And within the normal range, we have a high end of normal and a low end of normal. Everyone at every age fluctuates with that, and it is considered normal. Abnormal values worth taking note of are if someone is clearly far higher than the high end of normal (well into the high range) and far lower than the low end of normal (well into the low range).

In addition, hormone levels can and do fluctuate seasonally as well. If you'll see here in this graph,

A little hard to see because of the small text, but testosterone production peaks typically during the summer months and takes a big dip during winter time and spring months.(1) This was determined in a study correlating deficiency of vitamin D and testosterone levels . Everybody's testosterone levels are also affected by: lifestyle, genetics, diet, physical habits, exercise, and many other things. Testosterone levels vary up and down even on a 24-hour basis (levels are typically at their highest in the morning, and drop drastically by the afternoon). This is why we have a 'normal range' and within that, we have a high end of normal and low end of normal. A 21 year old would typically be closer to the high end of normal, and fluctuate slightly, which tells you absolutely nothing about his HPTA maturation.

So, by taking a blood test once per month for 4 months, as you suggested, will not determine whether or not a 21 year old's endocrine system has fully matured. All it will determine is that testosterone levels fluctuate. This determines nothing, really. Perhaps in the future there will be a test to determine if someone's HPTA and endocrine system has fully matured, and perhaps tell us also by which age precisely, but that is more along the lines of genetic DNA testing.

REFERENCES:
1. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2006 Aug;31(7):895-9. Epub 2006 May 3.