Looking for feedback on 1st cycle

**2bookoo** · 07-13-2012, 12:07 AM

I'm 37, 5'7", 138lb. Been working out regularly about six years, although I had one year layoff due to some random injuries that I wanted to heal well, and started working out again last April. My diet has always been pretty healthy. Did baseline bloodwork and my cholesterol is good (as always), blood pressure is awesome my whole life. One thing I do wonder about is my free test was 502, seem lowish to anyone?

I'd like to join a friend in doing an 8 week cycle:

400mg Sustanon 350 per week
20mg methandrostonolone per day (just first 4 weeks)
0.5mg anastrozole every 3 days

I'm leaning towards leaving the methandrostonolone out because there seems to be some disagreement on how useful it is and whether the gains would last. Plus I can't find anyone selling TUDCA/UDCA and I really like my liver. And it just seemed simpler and safer using just test for my 1st and probably only cycle. Otherwise how does this look?

Another thing I'm wondering is if the anastrozole can be used during PCT instead of nolvadex , etc.? I don't think I have access to anything else that isn't OTC. Which brings me to HCG , my understanding is there is an OTC oral form? If I can't use HCG any other suggestions?

**2bookoo** · 07-14-2012, 12:31 PM

Bump

**>Good Luck<** · 07-14-2012, 12:45 PM

Hey bro, glad to see your taking an interest in your health. I want to share my experience with you so u can make an informed decision.

I took sus250 for 10 weeks, and gained 12lbs , and lost it all after pct. Only when I adjusted my diet the real way have I started to gain. You can lift all u want and inject u want but it will only set u back until you eat to grow. Post your diet in the Health sec. And see what people have to say. It's a whole lot more complicated than I thought and it's not easy. I'm only 155lbs but I come from a 125lb frame. I promise you that if you are 5'7" and 138 training 6 years, your just not supporting your nutritional requirements.

Aside from that 8 weeks is to short and you just are not ready. Fix your diet and then take advantage of gear.

**2bookoo** · 07-15-2012, 12:15 AM

Thanks JustJoe for the feedback. I never actually tried to bulk up before through diet, just trained and ate as my body told me to. This is the first time I've really considered putting on significant weight. I'm not looking to puff up on carbs though...is this not compatible with what doing test is about?

**JohnnnyBlazzze** · 07-15-2012, 12:20 AM

I would hit the diet section and get everything sorted out nutrition wise before you start thinking of cycling. If you cycle and have no clue how to diet or eat correctly then you're just wasting your time and money. As Joe mentioned above, you'll loose it all when you come off. If you're serious about gaining then jump into the nutrition section.

When I say eat right and learn how to diet I'm not just talking about making "healthy choices." Dieting is almost a whole other monster in itself when you start to get into it. I'm talking about monitoring your daily calorie intake and hitting all your macros. You will be surprised what eating right can do to you're body.

You're 138lbs bro! You have tons of gains in your future!

**songdog** · 07-15-2012, 02:30 AM

Yes you are way under weight bro.You learn how to eat you will look great.

**>Good Luck<** · 07-15-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

Yes you are way under weight bro.You learn how to eat you will look great.

As much as I value the opinion of songdog, I find his delivery of the info is as plain as a chicken breast. might even seem offensive to some with not-so-thick skin.

What I have gathered is that gear is not a magic potion. It would be like throwing gas on a pile of wood and expecting fire. If there is no spark, there wil be no fire!!!

The equation as I understand it is as follows:

Intense strategic training + proper nutrition = results

Intense strategic training + steroids = temporary moderate results

Intense strategic training + proper nutrition + steroids = continued results and maintained health

Intense training is key, but your muscles need certain nutrients to grow. If you try to replace those nutrients with gear, you will only rip your self off the true benefits of eating right while training... It all comes down to calories in vs calories out AND what those calories consist of. I like the 40-40-20 split of carbs-pro-fat all the while watching intake of sodium to keep it low.

It really is a science, not a whimsical pattern of training and eating til ur full. You will benefit the most by tweaking the diet the way your body need, not what you think u can get away with.

Good luck! And stay accountable- it only effects you in the end

**austinite** · 07-15-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by JustJoe

As much as I value the opinion of songdog, I find his delivery of the info is as plain as a chicken breast. might even seem offensive to some with not-so-thick skin.

Really? He is right on actually. OP is under weight, and needs to learn how to eat. This isn't the nutrition section so no need to go into diet further because johnnnyblazzze already referred him to the proper section.

**>Good Luck<** · 07-15-2012, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

Really? He is right on actually. OP is under weight, and needs to learn how to eat. This isn't the nutrition section so no need to go into diet further because johnnnyblazzze already referred him to the proper section.

1000 apologies, and like I said. I agree! There is just a better way of directing people than telling them they don't know how to eat. I'm interested in helping people on a long term basis.. Not scaring them away with things that might feel insulting at first. Chances are people on this form- especially noobs like me- are not to happy with their stats and hearing things like "your way to small, and you don't know how to eat" will be counter productive.

OP. Move to the diet section, and type out your diet with macros and you will get some help. Not by the people directing you there, because they only help those who are ready for steroids , and don't choose to help out in the nutrition section.. and not fast as a "cycle advice question" but it will happen. There are a few good guys who frequent the nutrition section and THOUSANDS in the Anabolics section.

Thanks for keeping the forums in check aus. (even tho i believe someone wanting to cycle needs to understand the effects of cycling without proper nutrition and therefore should be able to be answered in this section, and later directed to the nutrition section) I just wish the guys constantly shoeing people away for sections could spend a few mins helping people in the sections they refer. If diet is soooooo important, why does it take weeks to get a response over there but SECONDS to get a reply in the Anabolics section... Hm... I wonder ??

**austinite** · 07-15-2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JustJoe

1000 apologies, and like I said. I agree! There is just a better way of directing people than telling them they don't know how to eat. I'm interested in helping people on a long term basis.. Not scaring them away with things that might feel insulting at first. Chances are people on this form- especially noobs like me- are not to happy with their stats and hearing things like "your way to small, and you don't know how to eat" will be counter productive.

OP. Move to the diet section, and type out your diet with macros and you will get some help. Not by the people directing you there, because they only help those who are ready for steroids , and don't choose to help out in the nutrition section.. and not fast as a "cycle advice question" but it will happen. There are a few good guys who frequent the nutrition section and THOUSANDS in the Anabolics section.

Thanks for keeping the forums in check aus. (even tho i believe someone wanting to cycle needs to understand the effects of cycling without proper nutrition and therefore should be able to be answered in this section, and later directed to the nutrition section) I just wish the guys constantly shoeing people away for sections could spend a few mins helping people in the sections they refer. If diet is soooooo important, why does it take weeks to get a response over there but SECONDS to get a reply in the Anabolics section... Hm... I wonder ??

You're right. I think they should be informed as well. My concern with most newbies is the lack of education. I have never, ever seen a question being asked by a newbie that hasn't been answered with at least 30 threads. That does't mean they don't need to ask to get more opinions. But I guess I just understand that folks like songdog sometimes feel like a broken record. Especially when 1 in a million actually take the advice given. If only they would take the time to read and post a proper cycle for critique.

Either way, I think we all mean well.

OP... when you're ready, drop the dbol . Test only for your first cycle.

**MuscleInk** · 07-15-2012, 12:54 PM

2bookoo,

You've got some phenomenal advice here from people who know their stuff!

Let me relay my brief experience to you. It's very relevant to your case. In 2008 I made a life changing decision. I had lifted on and off for 20+ years. Nothing serious, just recreationally. I was active my whole life (15 years of hockey finishing one level away from the NHL). I had never used any substances during my athletic career. In 2008, at 39 and being sedentary for about awhile, I decided to get my ass off the couch and commit to a gym. I trained with several trainers from 2008-2010, 5 days a week. I went from 144lbs to 185 lbs NATURALLY, through diet and exercise.

In 2011 I started feeling fatigued and my strength seemed to plateau. Blood work indicated my testosterone was 180 and my MD put me on HRT with cypionate . Through contacts in my gym, I stacked the cypionate with testosterone propionate . In 16 weeks, my strength gains went up and I reached 200lbs. I felt great! I felt unstoppable.

Sounds incredible right? Yes, until I came OFF cycle and realized my diet wasn't as consistent as it should be. In 12 weeks post cycle, my weight dropped to 177lbs, I lost about 30% of my strength gains, I gained back fat, and I felt tired and miserable all the time!!!

Austinite and the other guys couldn't be more correct. Without a perfected diet plan and one you know you can stay committed to, you will eventually be disappointed with the outcomes. Not to mention the challenges with pinning and all the secondary effects of steroids (immunosuppression, myalgia, arthralgia, brittle tendons/ligaments, gastrointestinal issues, etc) that you likely aren't aware of.

I'm not trying to terrify you but the guys are right. Get your diet in order so you won't be disappointed later. The gear will still be here when (and if) you are ready and when/if you're ready, stick with testosterone on your first cycle. It's by far the easiest to handle and will give great results.

Most guys in this forum will not steer you wrong and you've gotten some great advice today from guys who really know their stuff. PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM AND START WITH DIET NOW.

I promise you, you won't be disappointed if you humble yourself and follow their advice.

Good luck bro.

**2bookoo** · 07-15-2012, 04:19 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, really appreciated!! Yeah I think I'm going to focus more on diet and my regiment first and see how that works out. I'd rather gain weight right and don't mind putting the work into it, I'm not a shortcut kind of guy, it is just when my buddy told me he was doing it I was intrigued and was curious to try. Anyway I do have a couple questions I need answered from above, since my friend is already on cycle all he has for an estrogen blocker is anastrozole. Can he use this for PCT? Or does he have to get a hold of novaldex? Also what would be a good OTC test booster for PCT? I don't think he researched much before starting this, and now he is committed (having already started two weeks ago).

**austinite** · 07-15-2012, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by 2bookoo

Thanks for all the feedback, really appreciated!! Yeah I think I'm going to focus more on diet and my regiment first and see how that works out. I'd rather gain weight right and don't mind putting the work into it, I'm not a shortcut kind of guy, it is just when my buddy told me he was doing it I was intrigued and was curious to try. Anyway I do have a couple questions I need answered from above, since my friend is already on cycle all he has for an estrogen blocker is anastrozole. Can he use this for PCT? Or does he have to get a hold of novaldex? Also what would be a good OTC test booster for PCT? I don't think he researched much before starting this, and now he is committed (having already started two weeks ago).

anastrozole during cyycle. PCT is clomid and/or nolva depending on what hes on. Dosages vary based on cycle. Does he have prescription anastrzole? Is he on TRT?

**2bookoo** · 07-15-2012, 04:39 PM

Prescription anastrozole, yes. I think he takes 0.5mg every 3 days. I don't know what TRT is.

**austinite** · 07-15-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by 2bookoo

Prescription anastrozole, yes. I think he takes 0.5mg every 3 days. I don't know what TRT is.

Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

**2bookoo** · 07-15-2012, 05:17 PM

I see. It is kind of a hazy area, and I can't really say. Why?

**austinite** · 07-15-2012, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by 2bookoo

I see. It is kind of a hazy area, and I can't really say. Why?

just curious why he was prescribed that.

**2bookoo** · 07-15-2012, 07:18 PM

He was diagnosed with low test. Once he told the doc how much test he was going to do, the doc upped the amount of anastrozole he should take. None of it is real clear to me(or my friend), deliberately I'm sure. Feeling out the new doctor. Anyway does that help?