impossible to keep gain?

[senzubean]

is it impossible to keep your gain even with pct if you stop taking steroids? i'm planning on doing a couple cycles only and stop completely after

[Faceless Rider]

you can keep much of your gains but it all depends on the individual, the cycle, length, pct, consistency in training, calories...sooo much to keep diled in. But someone more experienced than me will hopefully chim in with their ideas on how to cover all bases and what to do to keep the most possible gains from a cycle.

[Faceless Rider]

for starters give us your stats and proposed cycle with doses if you have one yet.

[DeadlyD]

If your body is at its maximum natural genetic potential your body will go back to that , when you come off, keeping gains depends on alot of things, keep in mind what ever new mass you put on you will have to feed that new muscle, calories must increase with muscle increase. AAS or not.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Keeping your gains when you come off will depend on your diet. You will also no longer be "Anabolic" and you're body will be going through the process of converting your hormones into the natural way of order.

Your body will be back in natural production and the best you can do is provide the right amount of calories and protein to support the muscle you earned on cycle, as well as continue training. There's only so much you can do!

[senzubean]

thanks for replying guys! i'm 5'9 150lbs, 25 years old. my first cycle will be test e and dbol for 12 weeks. if i eat around 2.5k calories while on cycle do i have to eat more on pct? if so, do i have to keep eating more than 2.5k calories even after pct to maintain my weight or i will lose my gains?

[AD]

may i know how did you arrive at the number 2500 for your cal intake? are you currently eating that much/little? using a formula is not the best way to find your tdee. looking at your stats, i think you may have to eat more. especially while on cycle.

[Judah]

thanks for replying guys! i'm 5'9 150lbs, 25 years old. my first cycle will be test e and dbol for 12 weeks. if i eat around 2.5k calories while on cycle do i have to eat more on pct? if so, do i have to keep eating more than 2.5k calories even after pct to maintain my weight or i will lose my gains?

Caloric intake sounds light.

PCT is key. This includes diet. After cycle keep eating loads of clean calories (high protein) to feed the new growth. In fact don't be afraid to increase your daily caloric intake to protect those gains. What are you running for PCT?

[gonzo6183]

Sorry to say it mate but its very rare that someone does "a couple" of cycles and stops

[< <Samson> >]

Sorry to say it mate but its very rare that someone does "a couple" of cycles and stops

I just finished my 1st cycle. I said I was going to only do one to get me over this growth plateau. Yeah, I hit my goal 3x over and now I'm planning my next set of cycles.

Being smart with what you do is what will get you ahead. Start off real small, the smaller the better. Run test only for the first few, the more you do the more you will need to do later. I know we all just want to blow up and look shredded permanently an fast. But ethat's not how it works.

[warmouth]

Sorry to say it mate but its very rare that someone does "a couple" of cycles and stops

So true! And onthe subject, since coming off and are no longer "anabolic" is there not daily supplements to take, other than protien and creatine, that will keep your body in an anabolic state? Such as a steady flow of L-Arginine and glutamine? I think we should work hard on experimenting with legal subs post cycle. Maybe we can start a thread that people can try diferent things and post results weekly. Just and idea.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

So true! And onthe subject, since coming off and are no longer "anabolic" is there not daily supplements to take, other than protien and creatine, that will keep your body in an anabolic state? Such as a steady flow of L-Arginine and glutamine? I think we should work hard on experimenting with legal subs post cycle. Maybe we can start a thread that people can try diferent things and post results weekly. Just and idea.

You can eat correctly and supplement correctly but the reality of it is it doesn't even compare at all to AAS.

[senzubean]

may i know how did you arrive at the number 2500 for your cal intake? are you currently eating that much/little? using a formula is not the best way to find your tdee. looking at your stats, i think you may have to eat more. especially while on cycle.

yes, the most i can eat in a day is around 2500 cal. maybe 3000 if i force myself, i dont think i can anymore than that. and this is all clean calories, no junk food.

[senzubean]

Caloric intake sounds light.

PCT is key. This includes diet. After cycle keep eating loads of clean calories (high protein) to feed the new growth. In fact don't be afraid to increase your daily caloric intake to protect those gains. What are you running for PCT?

i'm just having a tough time eating more lol. clomid 150/150/100/100/50/50 and nolvadex 40/40/20/20/10/10. is this good for first cycle?

[Judah]

i'm just having a tough time eating more lol. clomid 150/150/100/100/50/50 and nolvadex 40/40/20/20/10/10. is this good for first cycle?

4 weeks should be plenty. Personally I would drop the last 2 weeks you have outlined on your pct.

You need to start drinking more of your calories if 2,500 is a lot for you in one day. Less filling and metabolizes faster.

[gymsoldier]

i'm just having a tough time eating more lol. clomid 150/150/100/100/50/50 and nolvadex 40/40/20/20/10/10. is this good for first cycle?

Clomid is too high.
Besides, you're 5' 9" and only 150lbs. You've already admitted to not eating enough, get the diet sorted before you start anything.
You have to "train" yourself to eat more.

[cherryking]

Well start eating junkfood and drinking more protein, your bodys abillity to use protein will be through the roof while on cycle, get your calories up however you can, eat that 2500 calories of clean foods and proteins to get all your micros then add icecream for carbs and protein shakes for more protein to bring your intake up just make sure its low fat ice cream and only start this while you on cycle and a little into pct, and its during pct you can't screw up, you need yo push ass hard as you can, sleep as long as you can and continue to eat as much as you can because its in that one stage everyone looses there gains because your hormones are low and your gains are volnerable, good luck my friend!

[gymsoldier]

add icecream for carbs

Not sure if serious?...

[Jonnyg419]

I'm pretty sure he's srs, you can even fit junk food into your daily macros. Just know what the portion and cals are. You can always hit your protein quota with shakes, and a piece of cake can be broken down into ex. 22g fat, 65g carbs, 8g protien. cals are cals. EAT EAT EAT!!!!!!

[cherryking]

Haha sereous sir, your body dosnt know the difference between icecream and brown rice but you need the whole foods for the micronutrients...

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

It's not difficult to hit your macros on a bulking diet if you have a plan.

Lets say you run your macros like this when you bulk (Just an example)

300p
300c
75f

This adds up to 1200 cals in protein, 1200 cals in carbs and 675 cals in fats. For an individual that is around 180-190lbs this is already a surplus of calories.

I wouldn't want to add ice cream or cake? That will just add additional body fat to your gains. Personally I like to keep my gains as lean and healthy as possible so when I do finally finish my cycle I don't look like the Michelin Man and have to plan a hardcore cut.

[gymsoldier]

Haha sereous sir, your body dosnt know the difference between icecream and brown rice but you need the whole foods for the micronutrients...

So are you suggesting that icecream and brown rice have the same GI?

[asquarecan]

This is something I was very curious about myself, so would increasing your cal intake during PCT aid in the preservation of gains?

Thanks

[swm1972]

So are you suggesting that icecream and brown rice have the same GI?

Exactly. While you might get results eating shit, you could have had much better results eating quality carbs. High GI foods lead to insulin resistance. Insulin resistance will slow your gains. This isn't 'maybe it could effect your gain'. It is 'this will effect your gains, period'. You can get away with eating shit like ice cream and candy and still get results. But you want to maximize your gains? Don't fall into the trap of thinking all macros are equal because they aren't.

[Jonnyg419]

I always forget what it is like for the rest of you, I am a type 1 diabetic as a result of a surgery I had years ago, I keep my Blood Glucose just about perfect, but at the end of the day I spike my own insulin and I don't need food to do it for me. So for me personally it doesnt make all that much difference what the GI of the food is.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

This is something I was very curious about myself, so would increasing your cal intake during PCT aid in the preservation of gains?

Thanks

In quality food yes. It's not just "surplus calories." You want to provide it with enough protein and carbs from quality sources. That doesn't mean eat a tub of ben and jerrys to meet your caloric needs at the end of the day.

[asquarecan]

Agreed! Sorry I meant to say proper nutrition and higher calories.

[cherryking]

So are you suggesting that icecream and brown rice have the same GI?

No but your body dosnt care about the GI, calories in calories out but the difference in foods is the micronutrients so you still nee whole foods, GI is overrated it come from the meal freaquency myth, if you want to starve yourself all day then eat 3000 claories in one meal made up of icecream and protein powder you will still build muscle if your macros were hit but you won't get the micronutrients you need

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

No but your body dosnt care about the GI, calories in calories out but the difference in foods is the micronutrients so you still nee whole foods, GI is overrated it come from the meal freaquency myth, if you want to starve yourself all day then eat 3000 claories in one meal made up of icecream and protein powder you will still build muscle if your macros were hit but you won't get the micronutrients you need

I've been looking for something like this! You're a genius! So where would I get my healthy carbs and fats from? And will the mass amount of sugar content from the ice cream make me big and strong to?!

[cherryking]

Yah over a long period of time, short term insulin resistance is a myth, eating 500 calories extra in icecream while on cycle isn't going to harm your insulin production (turn you into a diabetic) over night it takes a life time of high gi foods and occours commonly in really obese people and just to theoretically argue your point, even if insulin resistence did happen you could be prescribes insulin and still continue to eat icecream and just inject to break down the glucose you would be otherwise peeing out

[cherryking]

Haha you would die, and you would become a diabetic, I'm sorta stating it overdramticlly to prove a point, you need vitamines and shakes and icecream are empty calories, and healthy fats, buy almond icecream lol there's a bb out there I forget his name but he only eats one soup a day and gets all his calories from pop and proteain shakes

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I thought we were talking about diet and food choices to keep your gains in PCT, not insulin resistance!

All I'm saying is that if I were going through PCT with my main goal being to hold on to my hard earned cycle gains, Icecream would not even enter my brain as something to consume. It could be different for other people though!

[cherryking]

I agree 100 percent learn to force feed and you stomach will stretch

[gymsoldier]

GI is overrated it come from the meal freaquency myth

No it doesn't come from the meal frequency myth, it was developed as a guide to which foods were best for people with diabetes.
You should have stopped talking a few posts back, advising someone to start eating ice cream, I mean come on!

[cherryking]

Your telling me that the gi being over rated dosnt come from the meal freaquency myth? Because you sir are wrong, it was developed for diabetics not bodybuilders to obsese over wether there carbs were at a low enough gi to make it to there next meal, therefore gi being over rated comes from the meal freaquency myth, people afraid of there muscles "starving", carbs are carbs, meal freaquenty dose not matter, carbs in carbs out macros are all that matters, your body produces the same abount of insulin from 200calories of brown rice as it dose 200 calories of icecream insulin spike or not your musles don't give a shit, and if he cannot physically eat more and he is on cycle then he should be eating high concentration foods like proteinshakes and low fat non dendronized icecream because he is about to get the oppourtunity to putt on some real size hear and its getting ruined by peeps like you like you who give there opinion on things when they don't know what there talking about

[Back In Black]

Cherryking, whatever your arguments/beliefs, I find your choice of names for gymsoldier offensive and needless!

[AD]

Cherryking, whatever your arguments/beliefs, I find your choice of names for gymsoldier offensive and needless!

I agree

[cherryking]

Ah I'm such an asshole I edited it a bit lol I don't know why but I though he was calling me names then I re read his post and he wasn't even really that rude lol it just ticked me off him saying "you should have stoped talking a few post back" I let these things get the best of me sometimes

[SEOINAGE]

150 lbs? Should not be cycling steroids, need to make some progress the hard way first. No reason you can't attain 200 lbs naturally, have you even consistently and seriously trained for 5 years? Or even a solid 1 year. You should take advantage of learning proper training and diet protocols, could put on 30 lbs just with that and be more prepared for steroids later on. First year gain 30 lbs, few more to gain another 20. Then you should have a foundation to work with.

[gymsoldier]

Cherryking, whatever your arguments/beliefs, I find your choice of names for gymsoldier offensive and needless!

I agree

Thanks guys, I never read what he said, but I'm guessing it was bad.

your body produces the same abount of insulin from 200calories of brown rice as it dose 200 calories of icecream

Wrong again. Brown rice will produce an insulin score of 62 ± 11, while ice cream has an insulin score of 89 ± 13.
How is that your body producing the same amount of insulin?

I'm out of this conversation now in response to earlier comments made about me which were clearly extremely offensive.