ideal length

[fanof]

what is the ideal length for a cycle using prop esters only?
i mean what amount of weeks would give you enough time with the hormones in your body to make substantial gains but still give fast recovery?

i have read about bill roberts's 2 weekers and they interest me because you apparently it is not uncommon to continue making gains during pct. but 2 weeks sounds so short?

so what is it? 2 weeks? 4weeks? 6 weeks? 8 weeks? or even longer?

[SK1Viking]

what is the ideal length for a cycle using prop esters only?
i mean what amount of weeks would give you enough time with the hormones in your body to make substantial gains but still give fast recovery?

i have read about bill roberts's 2 weekers and they interest me because you apparently it is not uncommon to continue making gains during pct. but 2 weeks sounds so short?

so what is it? 2 weeks? 4weeks? 6 weeks? 8 weeks? or even longer?

Here is the way to go bro:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t#.UAhI1KN1eDU

[warmouth]

8 is great!!!

[auswest]

8 is great!!!

This

[fanof]

dont you guys struggle with the mental aspect of loosing gains? i havent cycled yet, but how do you guys stay motivated during pct and after??

[< <Samson> >]

dont you guys struggle with the mental aspect of loosing gains? i havent cycled yet, but how do you guys stay motivated during pct and after??

I have no idea, just don't think about it I guess.

I can do without the juice, but the more I will do later on, the harder it will be not to be "on"

It's just like any other human mind fvck. . . . Like the need for smoking.

[SK1Viking]

dont you guys struggle with the mental aspect of loosing gains? i havent cycled yet, but how do you guys stay motivated during pct and after??

Really good question bro. What i do during PCT and during the off time in the gym is almost try and trick myself into thinking that I'm either still on (Placebo) or i tell

myself the gear was fake and that it was me the whole time.

A lot of mental can come into play when you come off, but if you can push through it--you will hold almost all gains, no doubt!

[MuscleInk]

dont you guys struggle with the mental aspect of loosing gains? i havent cycled yet, but how do you guys stay motivated during pct and after??

D.I.E.T!!!!! This is why so many experienced members preach the hell out of diet and tell newbies to stay off the junk until their diet is truly dialed in. If you have the right nutrition plan and are committed to it, your loses will be negligible off cycle. Young guys get on this board and dismiss our emphasis on diet like we have no idea what we are talking about. There IS a method to our madness!

My other comment would be that if someone can't stay motivated when they are off cycle, they need to reevaluate their reasons for for using gear in the first place. If someone needs a synthetic molecule to be motivated to lift....he/she shouldn't be using gear in the first place.

I've hit some low points off cycle but no matter how shitty I felt, I never deviated from my training. I made a commitment that this was a long term decision no matter what. Anyone using gear for a quick fix or short term solution should just leave the stuff alone. My tone maybe harsh but I believe serious thought needs to be invested in choices to use gear or not.

[warmouth]

D.I.E.T!!!!! This is why so many experienced members preach the hell out of diet and tell newbies to stay off the junk until their diet is truly dialed in. If you have the right nutrition plan and are committed to it, your loses will be negligible off cycle. Young guys get on this board and dismiss our emphasis on diet like we have no idea what we are talking about. There IS a method to our madness!

My other comment would be that if someone can't stay motivated when they are off cycle, they need to reevaluate their reasons for for using gear in the first place. If someone needs a synthetic molecule to be motivated to lift....he/she shouldn't be using gear in the first place.

I've hit some low points off cycle but no matter how shitty I felt, I never deviated from my training. I made a commitment that this was a long term decision no matter what. Anyone using gear for a quick fix or short term solution should just leave the stuff alone. My tone maybe harsh but I believe serious thought needs to be invested in choices to use gear or not.

I totally agree with everything you just said. I do think motivation can be lost once off cycle, at least for a short time. Only reason I think that is when I load up 4-45 lbs plates on each side of the hammer press chestmachine, I know for a fact that onmy ownI might can do2 per side. It has to be a bit of a struggle at first anyways. But I think, as yousaid about the diet. It if gets tuned in and you adjust the macrosto the size you are attaining, I personally believe that most gains can be kept, I hope so anyways ;( . And is it true that shorter esters have a better chance of actually keeping the gains with proper diet and PCT?

[Judah]

D.I.E.T!!!!! This is why so many experienced members preach the hell out of diet and tell newbies to stay off the junk until their diet is truly dialed in. If you have the right nutrition plan and are committed to it, your loses will be negligible off cycle. Young guys get on this board and dismiss our emphasis on diet like we have no idea what we are talking about. There IS a method to our madness!

My other comment would be that if someone can't stay motivated when they are off cycle, they need to reevaluate their reasons for for using gear in the first place. If someone needs a synthetic molecule to be motivated to lift....he/she shouldn't be using gear in the first place.

I've hit some low points off cycle but no matter how shitty I felt, I never deviated from my training. I made a commitment that this was a long term decision no matter what. Anyone using gear for a quick fix or short term solution should just leave the stuff alone. My tone maybe harsh but I believe serious thought needs to be invested in choices to use gear or not.

What he said!

I also like what SK1Viking said about fooling your mind that your gear was fake...I lie to myself all the time to get myself through things haha. Sounds terrible, but with certain things, like, lets say confidence, lieing to yourself that you have confidence eventually manifests into real confidence.

Signed,

Fu-cked in the head but I dont know it becasue I lie to myself.