Dbol- Deca Cycle.

[raghavm]

Hello guys,

After reading quite a lot I have decided to not to run this deca Dbol cycle. Instead I will run a Dbol-sustanon cycle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been a lurker for quite sometime now. I have gone through many threads on here and most of them have been very informative, I have tried to absorb as much as I could. I still have some queries and concerns and to address them I have made this thread.

Im a total noobie when it comes to steroids, this would be my first cycle. All I have had so far is whey ,casein, creatine, multivitamin/mineral and pre-workout shakes. Before jumping onto the cycle here is some information about me.

I have been training for 3 years now. My training schedule for a week looks like this
Monday : Chest and triceps
Tuesday :Rest
Wednesday : Back and biceps.
Thursday : Rest
Friday : Shoulders and legs
Saturday Sunday : Rest.

My weight-training session would last for an hour at most followed by a 20 minute jog at 8kmph on a treadmill. However on cycle, Im thinking on doing 5 days straight and taking the weekends off. The plan that I have in mind ( Read about this in Mick Harts Guide)

Monday : Legs and delts
Tuesday : Chest
Wednesday : back and Delts
Thursday : Biceps and triceps
Friday : Legs and Delts
Saturday Sunday : Rest.

My stats
Age:26
Height : 6 feet.
Weight : 192lbs
Body fat : 16 %

Target : To gain as much muscle as possible.

[raghavm]

There is one problem guys, I don’t eat meat, fish which really limits my sources of protein. The macro breakup on cycle will be 40% Carbs 40% Proteins 20% Fats.

I try to eat atleast 5 meals everyday, one meal every 3 hours.

Source of Complex Carbs : Oatmeal, brown rice, brown bread, whole wheat pasta, sweet potatoes.
Though I do eat simple carbs pre and post workout white rice, banana, white bread.

Sources of protein : eggs, low fat cottage cheese, lentils, beans ,seitan,tofu, skim milk, casein and whey shakes.

Source of fats : Other than the fats that I get from dairy and cooking oil (saturated mostly) source for unsaturated fats are walnuts, almonds, groundnuts, flaxseed oil, olive oil.

Here is what my 5 meals of the day

Breakfast : 1 cup oatmeal, 2 cups skim milk I add a green apple to this for taste, 4 egg white omeltte.

Meal 2 : Omelette ( 2 whole eggs) with brown bread, whey protein shake.

Meal 3: Garbanzo/chikpeas salad, a slice of seitan,egg rice (brown).

Meal 4: Pre workoutmeal, egg rice ( brown), a cup of black coffee.

Meal 5: Post workout , 2 bananas, whey protein ( 30 gms). Like 30 minutes after white rice, 6 wgg whites omelette.

Meal 6: Green salad, casein shake ( 30 gms with 1 cup skim milk,10gms Glutamine, 2 tablespoons of flaxseed oil).

If ever I feel like eating a snack, I mostly eat some low fat cottage cheese or a couple of green apples or a bowl of low fat yogurt.


A couple of cheat meals on Sundays only.

[raghavm]

Weeks 1-4 20 mg Dbol , 10mg Nolvadex ED,.5mg Arimedix E4D.
Weeks 1-16 Sustanon 500mg a week,2 x a week at 250mg Mon, Thurs.
Weeks 5-18 Arimidex at .5 mg E3D, increasing to E2D if needed.
weeks 19-21 Arimidex at .5mg E3D, E4D, E5D ( tapering it down)
weeks 19-23 Nolvadex at 20mg ED for the first two weeks and then dropping to 10mg ED for the last three weeks.

I have got 10mg Dbol tablets, week one I will take it in the morning, after breakfast, after Week 1 I will take them in two or three dose with meals.

I will be supplementing this with multivitamin ( especially 4-5 gms of Vitamin C), Liv52 ( liver de toxifier 2 tabs everyday), saw palmino ( for hairfall, if any).

[raghavm]

First one is regarding PCT, its a pretty much a basic cycle so Im wondering what PCT I should run and for what duration? What do you guys suggest?

In the Laymans Guide to Steroids, Mick Hart suggests that an anti-estrogen plan as a minimum of 10mg of Nolvadex every other day with 25 mg of Proviron on the alternate days should be taken. What I have read so far suggests that Nolvadex and Proviron are kind of same, is it really necessary to take Proviron or just Nolvadex will do? Views on this guys.

I use Pre work out shake (Jack 3d) which has shit-loads of caffeine and 1,3 Dimethylamylamine HCL( which I have learnt is a banned compound). Will it cause some kind of a problem if I take my pre workout shake while on cycle? Views and suggestions on this guys.


If you guys see something wrong with my exercise regime, diet, cycle kindly let me know.

Perhaps I should keep a log of this cycle?

Thanks
Raghav

[kronik420]

bad cycle. dont do it. do some research instead.
also at 6 ft, you should be able to get over 200 pounds easy.(maybe a lil harder since you dont eat meat, but still doable IMO)

[beeasy1689]

you should have test as a base in your cycle. esp with deca because it will shut your system down big time. and it will take a loong time to get your levels back to normal

[raghavm]

bad cycle. dont do it. do some research instead.
also at 6 ft, you should be able to get over 200 pounds easy.(maybe a lil harder since you dont eat meat, but still doable IMO)

Hey, thanks for the quick reply mate.

Any specific reasons as to why this is a bad cycle? Also what cycle would you suggest for a beginner?

[raghavm]

you should have test as a base in your cycle. esp with deca because it will shut your system down big time. and it will take a loong time to get your levels back to normal

Okay, a rough idea on what that cycle would look like, please.

[kronik420]

test only, 8-12 weeks,AI,HCG,PCT.

[kronik420]

oh and save the dbol and deca for your 2nd and 3rd cycles

[kronik420]

bad cycle. dont do it. do some research instead.
also at 6 ft, you should be able to get over 200 pounds easy.(maybe a lil harder since you dont eat meat, but still doable IMO)

but like i said before, you should try to get over 200 naturally before cycling. if you cant then i doubt you will be able to keep most of your gains from your cycle, and you'll be back to where you started. which is a waste of money and not to mention bad for your health.

try posting your diet in the nutrition section and ask for advice there.

[DAAS]

DBOL is liver toxic and is recommended not to be ran for so long. 3-4 weeks usually.
Deca doesn't even start to kick in until 8-10 weeks I believe.
This is a horrible cycle.
Doesnt even include testosterone.

[Tigershark]

The cycle is pretty horrible. Also no deca your first time out and there is no reason to be using dbol for 8 weeks. Test should be the only compound you use on a first cycle. Maybe dbol the first 4 weeks to kick start the test, but certainly no deca.

[kelkel]

Agree with all above. Test only, HCG, AI. Have pct in hand. But first, hit the nutrition forum as stated to maximize your natural potential first and foremost. You'll get there, be patient.

[raghavm]

And I thought I learnt something good about cycles from Mick Harts- Laymans Guide to Steroids. In that book he has written that Deca-Dbol is one of the most basic cycles a beginner should run. Thanks a bunch guys, I would never run this cycle now.

As advised I will post my diet chart in the nutrition section and get it in shape too.

Thanks a lot Kronik,Tiger and Kelkel.

One last request, can you please gimmie links to some threads that can help me with choosing a basic cycle?

Raghav

[gonzo6183]

Hello guys,

I have been a lurker for quite sometime now. I have gone through many threads on here and most of them have been very informative, I have tried to absorb as much as I could. I still have some queries and concerns and to address them I have made this thread.

Im a total noobie when it comes to steroids, this would be my first cycle. All I have had so far is whey ,casein, creatine, multivitamin/mineral and pre-workout shakes. Before jumping onto the cycle here is some information about me.

I have been training for 3 years now. My training schedule for a week looks like this
Monday : Chest and triceps
Tuesday :Rest
Wednesday : Back and biceps.
Thursday : Rest
Friday : Shoulders and legs
Saturday Sunday : Rest.

My weight-training session would last for an hour at most followed by a 20 minute jog at 8kmph on a treadmill. However on cycle, Im thinking on doing 5 days straight and taking the weekends off. The plan that I have in mind ( Read about this in Mick Harts Guide)

Monday : Legs and delts
Tuesday : Chest
Wednesday : back and Delts
Thursday : Biceps and triceps
Friday : Legs and Delts
Saturday Sunday : Rest.

My stats
Age:26
Height : 6 feet.
Weight : 192lbs
Body fat : 16 %

Target : To gain as much muscle as possible.

If this is true then how the hell did you come up with this cycle?

[Shadowmaker]

my first big cycle was kinda the same...
used 40mg dbol a day + 400mg deca a week for 2 months, then swithed to 40mg dbol a day and 500mg of sust a week. this cycle was made for me by one of the best powerlifters in my country for that time.

i didnt know much about nutrition, so i ate basically BigMacs and pasta, althou - i gained around 22lbs first month and some 5lbs maybe after that - thats when i started to notice that long cycles dont work for me.

i gues lots of that weight was fat, but im 6'2 and was like 200lbs back then, so even if that was fat and water, ill always remember that cycle because that was the time when i got over 220lbs and have rarely(some brutal cutting) been below that again.

[raghavm]

If this is true then how the hell did you come up with this cycle?

Lol, okay I get it, its a bad cycle, and I did not come up with it, I found this under the "Beginner cycles" in Mick Harts Laymans guide to steroids.

[raghavm]

my first big cycle was kinda the same...
used 40mg dbol a day + 400mg deca a week for 2 months, then swithed to 40mg dbol a day and 500mg of sust a week. this cycle was made for me by one of the best powerlifters in my country for that time.

i didnt know much about nutrition, so i ate basically BigMacs and pasta, althou - i gained around 22lbs first month and some 5lbs maybe after that - thats when i started to notice that long cycles dont work for me.

i gues lots of that weight was fat, but im 6'2 and was like 200lbs back then, so even if that was fat and water, ill always remember that cycle because that was the time when i got over 220lbs and have rarely(some brutal cutting) been below that again.

Well mate, as you can see, this cycle has been called horrible, pathetic by guys on this thread. See this is one of the reasons Im so confused about cycles, you wrote that it was designed for you by one of the best power lifters, and still I havnt met one single person ( here or at my gym) who would say any good about this cycle.

What PCT did you run for this cycle though?

[gonzo6183]

Dont listen to the guy above just becasue someone is a great powerlifter or top level bodybuilder does not mean they actually know anything about how to cycle "properly"

You should start to research test only cycles, 400-500mg a week 10-12 weeks and all the rest that goes with it is something you should learn about yourself before starting, then come back when yo uthink youre ready and get another opinion, im sure guys will be much more willing to help (I know I would be) once you can show you have made a good attempt at learning yourself first

[Shadowmaker]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over )

[Shadowmaker]

actually, if you would ask smth about the first cycle to any bodybuilder in here, the first and only advice would be - dbol.
i cant even imagine someone saying : "start with testE and do some pct"

P.S - before ppl lite their torches : im not saying that im right or someone has to do what i say... this might be terribly wrong etc, but im just tryin to make some variety of opinions in here and share some different experience

[kelkel]

^^^I appreciate your input and thanks for letting us know the difficulties, both cultural, economic and otherwise from your part of the world. People do think differently and often times you just have to "make do" with what you got.

Thanks again Shadowmaker!

[raghavm]

Dont listen to the guy above just becasue someone is a great powerlifter or top level bodybuilder does not mean they actually know anything about how to cycle "properly"

You should start to research test only cycles, 400-500mg a week 10-12 weeks and all the rest that goes with it is something you should learn about yourself before starting, then come back when yo uthink youre ready and get another opinion, im sure guys will be much more willing to help (I know I would be) once you can show you have made a good attempt at learning yourself first

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

[KINGKONG]

I hate ur cycle bro?no offence get some test start with a small dose get used to the hormones, build till you can't build anymore and then up the dose start at 300mg/wk u can grow there..good luck
Btw the diet layouts are funny to me I keep turkey in 1lb bags and take em everywhere I go and just munch constantly get plenty of breakfast and post workout simple and complex carbs and I grow...

[raghavm]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over )

Well, you sound like Mick Hart, lol. He wrote in the book that people worry a lot about PCT, almost 80% of the people are either doing too little or are doing fake stuff, either ways all they have to do is give their body time and allow it to recover. However he somehow didint mention how much of the gains are these people able to keep after they are done with the cycle? Anyways, tell me how much were you able to keep after your cycle ? Please dont temme that you didint loose anything at all. :P

So gyno does set in, right? From what I have read so far I have learnt that once it sets in the only way to get rid of it is to go under the knife. I dont understand as to how it can go away just like that.

[KINGKONG]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

Do the sus..for now

[raghavm]

I hate ur cycle bro?no offence get some test start with a small dose get used to the hormones, build till you can't build anymore and then up the dose start at 300mg/wk u can grow there..good luck
Btw the diet layouts are funny to me I keep turkey in 1lb bags and take em everywhere I go and just munch constantly get plenty of breakfast and post workout simple and complex carbs and I grow...

Appreciate that, after the kind of response this cycle has drawn from everyone I think I would be crazy to run this cycle.
And nope I don't eat meat, so cant eat turkey, I got other options like seitan, tofu, you know. Make sure I get 250ish g proteins everyday, though yes I neeed to change a diet, replace all that bread with brown rice,oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

[KINGKONG]

raghavm - it is strange how knowledge about pharmacy changes all over the world. i have been reading info in this forum for years... first of all - about 80% of stuff ppl talk about in here is not available in where i come from, so that limits everything we do over here.
second, and the most interesting part is that - what ppl in this forum call as "bad" is actually considered "the best" in my part of the world...

for example - ppl in here say, that TestE alone is a good starter cycle, while in here - 90% of young bodybuilders start with d-bol cycles, cause its cheap and ppl dont like needles.
imagine - if you're 16 yrs old, you live in a place, where u get paid like 400$ a month and a rent for a decent 1 room apartment is like 300$... all you can buy is dbol cause its pretty much the cheapest stuff over here.

another thing i find strange is - that "pct" thing about which you asked... all we can get is smth called proviron, but its not really popular... i dont know anyone who has done any pct, and anyone who has had any problems because of that...

its hard for me to explain everything, because the majority of this forum think absolutely different to that i grew up beliving in, and see all around me on daily basis.

anyway - where i come from, ppl start with dbol cycle for a month or two... if u have money, you later go to dbol+deca or if you're rich, you go dbol+deca+test/sust which is considered as the cycle with a title : "if you don't grow on this, you don't grow on anything".

this might be a sh*tty information from someone who lives in a third world country but this is how it has been done since the times of Soviet Russia when the only available thing was some russian dbol, so ppl just took that, because it was the only thing...
we just stick to the basics - take your dbol's take your deca, take some time off(no pct) and then do it all over again
might not be the right way but it works and noone has ever died or got into any health problems(we hear ppl gettin surgerys in USA for gyno, but we just wait for a month and the gyno is over e)

Not great advice but at least ur honest

[Judah]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did go through like 500 pages of Layman guide to Steroids, seems like whatever I learned from there is obsolete. According to Mick Hart the deca-dbol cycle is supposed to be one of the basic Beginner cycle.

Anyways, the biggest problem I have is there are shit loads of fake stuff available on the market, especially where I live. I can get my hands on just three legit products Dbol, Deca and Sustanon, so I have got to do the best with whats available here. : (

Sust is great. If you can't get reliable Test-E or C and you know your Sust connection is legit just go with that as your first cycle.

[KINGKONG]

Appreciate that, after the kind of response this cycle has drawn from everyone I think I would be crazy to run this cycle.
And nope I don't eat meat, so cant eat turkey, I got other options like seitan, tofu, you know. Make sure I get 250ish g proteins everyday, though yes I neeed to change a diet, replace all that bread with brown rice,oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

I've ate every source of protein known to man..I respect that u dont eat meat but meat makes u grow best..eat some Greek yougert u eat that?

[Judah]

I hate ur cycle bro?no offence get some test start with a small dose get used to the hormones, build till you can't build anymore and then up the dose start at 300mg/wk u can grow there..good luck
Btw the diet layouts are funny to me I keep turkey in 1lb bags and take em everywhere I go and just munch constantly get plenty of breakfast and post workout simple and complex carbs and I grow...

He doesn't eat meat.

[raghavm]

Do the sus..for now

After reading ( ALOTT) for the last 2 days, and keeping in mind that I do not have lot of choices at my disposal, I have come up with this cycle, views on this guys. Pretty ambitious?

Weeks 1-4 20 mg Dbol, 10mg Nolvadex ED,.5mg Arimedix E4D.
Weeks 1-16 Sustanon 500mg a week,2 x a week at 250mg Mon, Thurs.
Weeks 5-18 Arimidex at .5 mg E3D, increasing to E2D if needed.
weeks 19-21 Arimidex at .5mg E3D, E4D, E5D ( tapering it down)
weeks 19-23 Nolvadex at 20mg ED for the first two weeks and then dropping to 10mg ED for the last three weeks.

A little help on as to how (and when) to incorporate Clomid into my PCT?

[KINGKONG]

He doesn't eat meat.

I know I seem to have missed that..

[Judah]

I hate ur cycle bro?no offence get some test start with a small dose get used to the hormones, build till you can't build anymore and then up the dose start at 300mg/wk u can grow there..good luck
Btw the diet layouts are funny to me I keep turkey in 1lb bags and take em everywhere I go and just munch constantly get plenty of breakfast and post workout simple and complex carbs and I grow...

300mg a week? Even for a first cycle a bit low don't younthink?

[Judah]

I know I seem to have missed that..

I do the same with ground turkey, I like!

[KINGKONG]

After reading ( ALOTT) for the last 2 days, and keeping in mind that I do not have lot of choices at my disposal, I have come up with this cycle, views on this guys. Pretty ambitious?

Weeks 1-4 20 mg Dbol, 10mg Nolvadex ED,.5mg Arimedix E4D.
Weeks 1-16 Sustanon 500mg a week,2 x a week at 250mg Mon, Thurs.
Weeks 5-18 Arimidex at .5 mg E3D, increasing to E2D if needed.
weeks 19-21 Arimidex at .5mg E3D, E4D, E5D ( tapering it down)
weeks 19-23 Nolvadex at 20mg ED for the first two weeks and then dropping to 10mg ED for the last three weeks.

A little help on as to how (and when) to incorporate Clomid into my PCT?

Much better but I would just use a clomid pct and only take the nolva during the cycle if ur nips start to feel funny itchy it's a chem the less the better..look up a simple clomid pct

[KINGKONG]

I do the same with ground turkey, I like!

I like to go through a couple pounds a day of smoked turkey it's the best snack!

[Judah]

I like to go through a couple pounds a day of smoked turkey it's the best snack!

Beastly!

[raghavm]

I've ate every source of protein known to man..I respect that u dont eat meat but meat makes u grow best..eat some Greek yougert u eat that?

I agree, meat is probably the second best source of protein, first being the eggsies.
Yeah I love greek yoghurt, its one of the integral ingredients of my super-shake.