How I see recreational using of AAS, in chart form!!

**kelkel** · 08-01-2012, 03:59 PM

"No man I am fully grasping all this, i am just weighing the pros and cons to come to a well thought out conclusion."

Exactly what you should be doing.

"Also I feel the point your making is not comparable in terms of logic of what I am talking about. I realize everything is lost in old age, however I am talking about losing gains in a matter of many weeks. Losing everything with old age is a matter of many many years."

At what point do you think "old age" sets in and you start losing things? I don't feel you have to lose it all if proper diet and training is implemented knowledgeably. Basic lifts, intelligent training and proper eating are key. Hell, I'm old and I refuse to lose it.

**thex95** · 08-01-2012, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

"No man I am fully grasping all this, i am just weighing the pros and cons to come to a well thought out conclusion."

Exactly what you should be doing.

"Also I feel the point your making is not comparable in terms of logic of what I am talking about. I realize everything is lost in old age, however I am talking about losing gains in a matter of many weeks. Losing everything with old age is a matter of many many years."

At what point do you think "old age" sets in and you start losing things? I don't feel you have to lose it all if proper diet and training is implemented knowledgeably. Basic lifts, intelligent training and proper eating are key. Hell, I'm old and I refuse to lose it.

I like your attitude man!

I have no idea when old age sets in to cause losses. Frick I'm 24 and my dam hairline is already receeding and my hair is turning grey.

**kelkel** · 08-01-2012, 05:24 PM

Age seriously is a state of mind. Equally important is how you live your life in effort to maintain your youth and well being. Barring unforseen medical pathologies I think we can maintain a high degree of muscularity into old age. I know I am.

**thex95** · 08-01-2012, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Age seriously is a state of mind. Equally important is how you live your life in effort to maintain your youth and well being. Barring unforseen medical pathologies I think we can maintain a high degree of muscularity into old age. I know I am.

care to share your stats bro? Just curious of what I can shoot for later in life

**Test pilot** · 08-01-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21

He confused you with Test Pilot!!

True story - but that's why I classed myself as "recreational". And I stand by the original concept that there is a point even if you aren't a serious athlete. Steroids are no more harmful and at least as much fun as any other recreational drug, alcohol included. And I am happier with the way I look after each cycle. For me, that's more "the point" than any stats.
I am jealous of you guys with the sub-12% bf, though...

**Judah** · 08-01-2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Test pilot

True story - but that's why I classed myself as "recreational". And I stand by the original concept that there is a point even if you aren't a serious athlete. Steroids are no more harmful and at least as much fun as any other recreational drug, alcohol included. And I am happier with the way I look after each cycle. For me, that's more "the point" than any stats.
I am jealous of you guys with the sub-12% bf, though...

I know every other member on here has basically dismissed your posts because you a poster child of exactly how not to run gear lol. That being said, despite the manner in which you did gear that makes most of our ass-holes itch, I really appreciate you no nonsense opinion that is based on real/personal experience.

**kelkel** · 08-01-2012, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by thex95

care to share your stats bro? Just curious of what I can shoot for later in life

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting. Oh, zero AAS use between 89 (last contest) and two years ago (would have lost job) when hit with a pituitary tumor which shut me down totally. Now just a TRT'er. 60 mg cyp every 3.5 days, HCG , that's it. No AI needed at that dosage. TRT put about 10lbs back on me that I lost when unknowingly growing the tumor crap. Lovely. The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years. Old school, basic lifts.

**austinite** · 08-01-2012, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting.

Riding mowers don't count, kelkel!!

**kelkel** · 08-01-2012, 09:49 PM

@#$% Damn you!

**thex95** · 08-01-2012, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

6', 220ish, be 55 later this year. Only do cardio when I cut the grass. Haven't done abs in 20 years. Basic Ectomorph frame if it wasn't for lifting. Oh, zero AAS use between 89 (last contest) and two years ago (would have lost job) when hit with a pituitary tumor which shut me down totally. Now just a TRT'er. 60 mg cyp every 3.5 days, HCG, that's it. No AI needed at that dosage. TRT put about 10lbs back on me that I lost when unknowingly growing the tumor crap. Lovely. The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years. Old school, basic lifts.

Your a beast good sir

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years

hi 5 on this one

ive been working out in my appartment bedroom - i have a bed and next to it i have a 40 years old squat rack, a bench and 2 dumbbells with changable weights

oldschool 4ever

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

The icing on the cake is I've been stuck working out in my basement for the past 8 years

hi 5 on this one

ive been working out in my appartment bedroom - i have a bed and next to it i have a 40 years old squat rack, a bench and 2 dumbbells with changable weights

oldschool 4ever

**kelkel** · 08-02-2012, 07:57 AM

^^^Agreed. Bet your neighbors love you!

You seriously can get by with basics. I've got a smith that does have a high & low pull with stack that you can add to. Picked up a vertical leg press as the 45 degree takes up to much room and plates. Thrilled with how well it works. Then the ever present olympic bar shoved in the corner for T bar rows. Not to mention the cat looking at me like I'm a retard.....Sure do miss other people banging weights around though. Plus the eye candy.

Searching for some used heavy Power Blocks in my area. Be a nice compliment to the little arsenal..

**SEOINAGE** · 08-02-2012, 08:23 AM

Is your "genetic maximum" tied to your natural testosterone and hormone levels? What if you actually trained for ten years and were really at your maximum, then started several cycles of test, but screwed up and hurt your natural production, would you of course then have a lower LBM than even before steroids ? I assume this is possible.

Also curious how this ties to someone with TRT and blasting, who decides to stop blasting, yet keep their t levels at the top of the range the rest of their life. Would they have a higher LBM potential?

Maximum genetic potential as a term is just so limiting imo.

I love my garage gym, built my power rack and platform and bench. But I want to build a few more pieces of equipment. Garage is just small, we are quickly growing out of our house, we planned ten years but lucky to get five out of it.

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

Is your "genetic maximum" tied to your natural testosterone and hormone levels? What if you actually trained for ten years and were really at your maximum, then started several cycles of test, but screwed up and hurt your natural production, would you of course then have a lower LBM than even before steroids ? I assume this is possible.

Also curious how this ties to someone with TRT and blasting, who decides to stop blasting, yet keep their t levels at the top of the range the rest of their life. Would they have a higher LBM potential?

Maximum genetic potential as a term is just so limiting imo.

I love my garage gym, built my power rack and platform and bench. But I want to build a few more pieces of equipment. Garage is just small, we are quickly growing out of our house, we planned ten years but lucky to get five out of it.

First we need to do is be specific about what "genetic max" for example are we talking about what your genetic max is in terms of muscle or lung endurance or how big can you grow a muscle while maintaining a certain BF%. For our purposes I believe most of us here are talking about how much quality muscle we can pack on and keep. Without starting clinical trials and spending the next month writing a paper on it....I define it as the physical limit you can reach with your body naturally specifically defined as how much quality muscle you can achieve and keep.

**thex95** · 08-02-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Judah

First we need to do is be specific about what "genetic max" for example are we talking about what your genetic max is in terms of muscle or lung endurance or how big can you grow a muscle while maintaining a certain BF%. For our purposes I believe most of us here are talking about how much quality muscle we can pack on and keep. Without starting clinical trials and spending the next month writing a paper on it....I define it as the physical limit you can reach with your body naturally specifically defined as how much quality muscle you can achieve and keep.

Is this an actual scientific definition that you researched or is this derived from your personal philosophical beliefs about general exercise and health?

**< <Samson> >** · 08-02-2012, 01:46 PM

Well here we go:

Juice and being bigger & stronger. It's all about what you want, steroids in "our" case are not a medicinal drug and are not required to be used to live. That being said, we do them for whatever reason we come up with(I want to get bigger faster, and want to be bigger than my natural ability allows me to be & so on).

My outlook on juicing has changed after I completed my cycle and PCT. I am currently 31 and like all of us I am getting older. Older does mean something. Well, what does it mean? It means your body will naturally slow down, slow its metabolism and the like. Soooo, here is juice. . . I think of it as a added kick to my regular lifting lifestyle. I ran my cycle with the intention of getting slightly bigger and stronger. Yeah, I tasted the juice and liked it - liked it a lot! But, there is no need to abuse AAs just like any other med.

Now, I see myself juicing regularly - regularly? From everything I researched and read on here this is what I came up with: Juice once a year(2-3 month cycles), PCT then enjoy your newly juicy self.

I like your chart, really represents real life. - Cycle(2-3 months) PCT(one month) Post PCT (hangout and lift like usual for a while, maybe 3-4 months) Cut(semi naturally for the rest of the time) - Now it's time to cycle again

Then do it all over again.

And if and when you make it to your glorious 50's start some GH and try your best to achieve the Stallone look at 60+.

My 2 cents. . . . . .