Which steroids for first cycle?

**Young Bodybuilder** · 08-02-2012, 01:17 PM

Hi guys, ok so i have been doing research into steroids and know the necessary dosages, PCT, milk thistle, liv52 etc.. But what i don't know is what to have as a first cycle? I don't want to dabble in injectables just yet, I'm not ready for that. I was thinking a 6 week cycle of D-bol + 2 weeks Nolvadex but people have said D-bol only cycles create water retention and a bloating effect and also that you lose most of the gains when you come off it? I don't want to be guzzling dozens of different pills, just a simple cycle that will burn any excess fat and most importantly help me pack on the poundage. Seasoned answers would be much appreciated, thanks

**t-dogg** · 08-02-2012, 01:23 PM

Wait till you are 25 to do gear. Your age you shouldnt have any issues gains or leaning out at all. Read our stickies and check out the diet section for now.

**Young Bodybuilder** · 08-02-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by t-dogg

Wait till you are 25 to do gear. Your age you shouldnt have any issues gains or leaning out at all. Read our stickies and check out the diet section for now.

I have already made up my mind on the decision to take steroids , i assure you i am of age where damaging my endocrine system is not an issue, I'm simply looking for advice from seasoned members who have actually ran cycles, rather than reading articles on the web which could be a load of flannel, thank-you for your concern though

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

Hi guys, ok so i have been doing research into steroids and know the necessary dosages, PCT, milk thistle, liv52 etc.. But what i don't know is what to have as a first cycle? I don't want to dabble in injectables just yet, I'm not ready for that. I was thinking a 6 week cycle of D-bol + 2 weeks Nolvadex but people have said D-bol only cycles create water retention and a bloating effect and also that you lose most of the gains when you come off it? I don't want to be guzzling dozens of different pills, just a simple cycle that will burn any excess fat and most importantly help me pack on the poundage. Seasoned answers would be much appreciated, thanks

There is no "dabbling"when using AS dude.

If your not ready for injectables, then your not ready period.

You have not done research you have casually browsed around or you would already know how and why you keep or lose gains after a cycle.

You really feel you have done thorough research?

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

I have already made up my mind on the decision to take steroids, i assure you i am of age where damaging my endocrine system is not an issue, I'm simply looking for advice from seasoned members who have actually ran cycles, rather than reading articles on the web which could be a load of flannel, thank-you for your concern though

Your not going to get "good advice" or any advice on here especially from the vets here with that approach. You don't know enough to be giving cocky responses like that. Be smart, adjust your approach to start encouraging good advice from those you want it from.

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Judah

Your not going to get "good advice" or any advice on here especially from the vets here with that approach

cause the "vets" decide for you... kinda reminds me of Stalin and "the good old days"....

anyways, here's my bad advice - if you MUST use steroids and want to use only orals - Stanozolol or Dbol i gues... Start at 20mg, if you feel need - can go higher, but i wouldnt go higher than 40mg because of possible acne.
Dbol can cause kidney f*ck-up like im having now - hurts a bit, so start low dosages first.

Orals as dbol are ok for starters because they get out of the system much faster them some injectables, and if you screw up, you'll just have to suffer for a week or so

EDIT - if your diet is not perfect youll just gain water and lose it all a few weeks after... diet is 80% of all the result.

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

cause the "vets" decide for you... kinda reminds me of Stalin and "the good old days"....

anyways, here's my bad advice - if you MUST use steroids and want to use only orals - Stanozolol or Dbol i gues... Start at 20mg, if you feel need - can go higher, but i wouldnt go higher than 40mg because of possible acne.
Dbol can cause kidney f*ck-up like im having now - hurts a bit, so start low dosages first.

Orals as dbol are ok for starters because they get out of the system much faster them some injectables, and if you screw up, you'll just have to suffer for a week or so

EDIT - if your diet is not perfect youll just gain water and lose it all a few weeks after... diet is 80% of all the result.

No it's universal in life. If you have no experience in a certain field of knowledge and you walk up to somebody and tell him you've made your mind up about something very specific in that area, you're not sending a very mature message to motivate experts to help you. If a guy asks you "hey I'm hungry how do I make a shit sandwich?" You don't just tell him how to make a shit sandwich, you educate him about other options that could quite possibly be much better than shit sandwich.

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 01:55 PM

so, the right thing here would be asking - WHY would the guy need steroids ? whats the goal?

**papa-g** · 08-02-2012, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

cause the "vets" decide for you... kinda reminds me of Stalin and "the good old days"....

anyways, here's my bad advice - if you MUST use steroids and want to use only orals - Stanozolol or Dbol i gues... Start at 20mg, if you feel need - can go higher, but i wouldnt go higher than 40mg because of possible acne.
Dbol can cause kidney f*ck-up like im having now - hurts a bit, so start low dosages first.

Orals as dbol are ok for starters because they get out of the system much faster them some injectables, and if you screw up, you'll just have to suffer for a week or so

EDIT - if your diet is not perfect youll just gain water and lose it all a few weeks after... diet is 80% of all the result.

This is bullshit. But then again since you are also 22 what would you know anyway!

Op. whether you made up your mind or not, you owe it to yourself to do your own research on this subject. It's your body and your gonna have to live with the consequence if something should go wrong. So please check out the stickies and read about the affects of these compounds. There is a ton of free knowledge here if you just take some time to look. There is alot more at risk then liver damage at your age. Some of which may not be reversable. How would you like to be 30 and not be able to get a hard on or suffer from depression. Or would if you hit the gym and blow out your knee trying to be a stud. This could happen it you put to much weight on and the connective tissue can't handle it. These are full what ifs and like I said. You owe it to yourself to at leaste get a good grasp if it before you go asking for any of the vets here to help u plan a cycle.

Papa

**papa-g** · 08-02-2012, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

so, the right thing here would be asking - WHY would the guy need steroids? whats the goal?

At the very least find out what he's working with. Stats, experience, diet plan, pct, oct,.....etc.

**MuscleInk** · 08-02-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Judah

No it's universal in life. If you have no experience in a certain field of knowledge and you walk up to somebody and tell him you've made your mind up about something very specific in that area, you're not sending a very mature message to motivate experts to help you. If a guy asks you "hey I'm hungry how do I make a shit sandwich?" You don't just tell him how to make a shit sandwich, you educate him about other options that could quite possibly be much better than shit sandwich.

Glad you're carrying the torch Judah. I was getting tired of arguing with the village idiots.

I'm not sure how one "does their research on doses" but "doesn't know what a good first cycle is". That doesn't exactly characterize a state of readiness in my mind.

I'm also relived that a young man of 22 years of age is certain he won't compromise his endocrine system. Then again, I'm just a 43 year old MD, what could I possibly know about the maturation of an endocrine system.

**t-dogg** · 08-02-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

I have already made up my mind on the decision to take steroids, i assure you i am of age where damaging my endocrine system is not an issue, I'm simply looking for advice from seasoned members who have actually ran cycles, rather than reading articles on the web which could be a load of flannel, thank-you for your concern though

OK, well vets will tell you the same thing lol. Next, I said read OUR STICKIES, not the webs.

BTW, since you said your system is good to go my question is how do you know?

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by papa-g

since you are also 22 what would you know anyway!

i just had to change my avatar for this one...
do i really look so much worse than you do? like - do i look so crappy that you can honestly say that you are so much better cause you know stuff more than i do?

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Glad you're carrying the torch Judah. I was getting tired of arguing with the village idiots.

I'm not sure how one "does their research on doses" but "doesn't know what a good first cycle is". That doesn't exactly characterize a state of readiness in my mind.

I'm also relived that a young man of 22 years of age is certain he won't compromise his endocrine system. Then again, I'm just a 43 year old MD, what could I possibly know about the maturation of an endocrine system.

I gotta tap out soon, the banter between me and this guy it's taking away from the original thread nd pretty soon I'll be the village idiot lol.

**MuscleInk** · 08-02-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

i just had to change my avatar for this one...
do i really look so much worse than you do? like - do i look so crappy that you can honestly say that you are so much better cause you know stuff more than i do?

How do you judge someone's degree of intellect on the basis of their appearance?

.....and your argument is only weakened by this. If you've achieved this without the aid of gear and you're only 22, why fix what isn't broken? Keep doing what you're doing!

**MuscleInk** · 08-02-2012, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Judah

I gotta tap out soon, the banter between me and this guy it's taking away from the original thread nd pretty soon I'll be the village idiot lol.

True. Remember the cliche...."arguing with a fool, makes two fools"

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

How do you judge someone's degree of intellect on the basis of their appearance?

if the discussion is about musclebuilding and musclebuilding drugs, i want to be called stupid by someone who has something to show for how smart he is... its like - im not gonna take nutritional advice from a fat guy, or an advice in business and economics from someone who hasnt got any money, right?

about the pic - its me when i was 19 or early 20, now im almost 23... i dont have any newer ones

and no - its not without the gear... im 6'2 and was 140lbs... i went from 140lbs to 220 from the age of 15-18 i gues, and then i started my first cycle. i dont feel any shame about that cause my genes ar really bad.

EDIT : the "smarter" dude went offline so im changing my pic back. will have to discuss that some other time i gues.

**papa-g** · 08-02-2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

True. Remember the cliche...."arguing with a fool, makes two fools"

That's why I'm out. I gave my 2¢. I'm not gonna argue physique pictures with some random bro

Papa out!

**MuscleInk** · 08-02-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

if the discussion is about musclebuilding and musclebuilding drugs, i want to be called stupid by someone who has something to show for how smart he is... its like - im not gonna take nutritional advice from a fat guy, or an advice in business and economics from someone who hasnt got any money, right?

about the pic - its me when i was 19 or early 20, now im almost 23... i dont have any newer ones

and no - its not without the gear... im 6'2 and was 140lbs... i went from 140lbs to 220 from the age of 15-18 i gues, and then i started my first cycle. i dont feel any shame about that cause my genes ar really bad.

No one's calling you "stupid" per se. They may refer to your decision as poor, bad, reckless, or stupid but one bad decision doesn't make a bad person. Obviously you are making a better choice by coming here and seeking the knowledge and experience of those who have it to offer. What some of the vets here are suggesting is that you be more pragmatic about your choices. You still have time to grow naturally. To the best of my knowledge, steroids have been around a long time and there are no plans for them to disappear tomorrow. They'll still be here for a much longer time.

Can you give me one good reason why you NEED to do steroids now instead of waiting another 3-4 years? Too many people see steroids as a magic pill. We are programmed to believe you can have immediate success. Nothing works like that. Hell even getting fat takes time.....it's just less work sitting on your ass eating poorly!

Ultimately you'll do what you want to do. Just be mature enough to fully accept all the consequences of those decisions. There have been numerous threads on here from guys your age that cycled and had significant problems, later wishing they had waited longer to cycle. Don't assume you'll be an exception.

**Shadowmaker** · 08-02-2012, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Can you give me one good reason why you NEED to do steroids now instead of waiting another 3-4 years?

1)the reason why I need them now is because i wont grow without since i started very early and also, i belive that gaining 55lbs is about my natural max.
2)http://s49.radikal.ru/i125/0906/ab/4462cd18a433.jpg - the dude is 21... wanna tell how to beat him being natural? im all ears...
3)i dont know what u have in US but in here there is no shuch thing as natural competitions or natural anything... ppl start taking juice at the age of 16, cause they started to bodybuild at the age of 12...

like - i have a lil bit more ambitions in this sport and the reason why not to wait is that you cant really be big if you wait... look at Jay or Branch when they were 17... its god given genetics ofc, but cmon - none of them would compete in Olympia if they would listen to you and "wait until they are 30"... if you start at 30, you cant really catch up...

**stpete** · 08-02-2012, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

cause the "vets" decide for you... kinda reminds me of Stalin and "the good old days"....

anyways, here's my bad advice - if you MUST use steroids and want to use only orals - Stanozolol or Dbol i gues... Start at 20mg, if you feel need - can go higher, but i wouldnt go higher than 40mg because of possible acne.
Dbol can cause kidney f*ck-up like im having now - hurts a bit, so start low dosages first.

Orals as dbol are ok for starters because they get out of the system much faster them some injectables, and if you screw up, you'll just have to suffer for a week or so

EDIT - if your diet is not perfect youll just gain water and lose it all a few weeks after... diet is 80% of all the result.

We give solid advice and get a lot of great help from other members here that believe in doing things the right way. That's what this board is about. And we don't decide on what a person will ultimately do, that's up to the individual. What we do decide on though, is how long we're going to tolerate posts like this. You admittedly have kidney issues yet still tell OP it's ok to use orals. That's just plain bad advice.

Please refrain from posting this nonsense in the future.

**Young Bodybuilder** · 08-02-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Judah

There is no "dabbling"when using AS dude.

If your not ready for injectables, then your not ready period.

You have not done research you have casually browsed around or you would already know how and why you keep or lose gains after a cycle.

You really feel you have done thorough research?

I've heard stories online saying that most of the gains are retained water, this is why I'm here. As i said, i want advice from experienced users.

**Young Bodybuilder** · 08-02-2012, 04:19 PM

Didn't come here to get flamed. Just wanted some advice etc.. You were all novice's once, no? ...

**papa-g** · 08-02-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

Didn't come here to get flamed. Just wanted some advice etc.. You were all novice's once, no? ...

Hey bro, I don't think anyone is flaming you. And you will get solid advise if you ate willing to listen and learn. Why make the same mistakes others did when it can be avoided right? But remember, your the one who started out by saying you had you your mind made up and that was that. With an attitude like that you won't get too far Round here. But it sounds like you do have alot to learn and you might be willing to listen when people talk so I hope you make the right choices that best fit what you want out of life. And on the gaining water question, yes, some AAS will cause extra water weight. The use of an on cycle AI will help this. Other compounds have almost zero water weight gain associated with them.

These are reasons why if you take the time to read the steroid profiles you will better understand how they work and what they can do. Also take note that none of that will matter if you don't eat right and train hard while getting enough rest in between. Stick around and you will learn alot. Most will come from reading other threads a d then, if you get stuck, ask. You will get help.

Papa.

**MuscleInk** · 08-02-2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by papa-g

Hey bro, I don't think anyone is flaming you. And you will get solid advise if you ate willing to listen and learn. Why make the same mistakes others did when it can be avoided right? But remember, your the one who started out by saying you had you your mind made up and that was that. With an attitude like that you won't get too far Round here. But it sounds like you do have alot to learn and you might be willing to listen when people talk so I hope you make the right choices that best fit what you want out of life. And on the gaining water question, yes, some AAS will cause extra water weight. The use of an on cycle AI will help this. Other compounds have almost zero water weight gain associated with them.

These are reasons why if you take the time to read the steroid profiles you will better understand how they work and what they can do. Also take note that none of that will matter if you don't eat right and train hard while getting enough rest in between. Stick around and you will learn alot. Most will come from reading other threads a d then, if you get stuck, ask. You will get help.

Papa.

^^^^Precisely. Posting a nutrition and training plan will be helpful so we can so the bigger picture and help with a total plan to achieve goals.

**Judah** · 08-02-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

I've heard stories online saying that most of the gains are retained water, this is why I'm here. As i said, i want advice from experienced users.

Well your statement is not "the full story", I'm not blaming you for that it's just important that you know that. Let me explain further. Size and weight increase can be a result of some "water retention" however if your training and eating correctly regardless of any water retention you get you will also achieve great gains. Don't start thinking that certain gear just makes you hold water and thats why your bigger. Most gear that has that effect also makes you really effin strong. You get stronger, you can lift more, and then grow more. Gear with these characteristics are typically good bulkers.

Does that help at all?

**Tigershark** · 08-02-2012, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

cause the "vets" decide for you... kinda reminds me of Stalin and "the good old days"....

anyways, here's my bad advice - if you MUST use steroids and want to use only orals - Stanozolol or Dbol i gues... Start at 20mg, if you feel need - can go higher, but i wouldnt go higher than 40mg because of possible acne.
Dbol can cause kidney f*ck-up like im having now - hurts a bit, so start low dosages first.

Orals as dbol are ok for starters because they get out of the system much faster them some injectables, and if you screw up, you'll just have to suffer for a week or so

EDIT - if your diet is not perfect youll just gain water and lose it all a few weeks after... diet is 80% of all the result.

We have a universal code on this site and it is not to give advice to people that may hurt them. It is not a Stalin "thing" and you should be suspended just for spewing that garbage and garbage advice.

**Twin** · 08-03-2012, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Young Bodybuilder

i assure you i am of age where damaging my endocrine system is not an issue, I'

**songdog** · 08-03-2012, 03:04 AM

if you knew 1/2 wat you thought you knew.You wouldnt be here now.Do to the health risks we dont give cycle advice to anyone under 25.

**Young Bodybuilder** · 08-05-2012, 04:33 AM

Okay, I've read the answers on here. Although a lot of "overprotective parent" style answers on here from guys that probably dosed way before the age of 25 and are complete hypocrites (i do understand you are trying to help me, but the way you go about it is not practical and frankly plain stupid, all I'm saying is that if someone came to me looking for advice i would rather educate them and make sure they know all the pro's and cons etc before starting a cycle, than feeding them a load of flannel, that boogeyman will come and eat you etc..so the individual does not feel ill-informed, thinks these guys are a bunch of assholes and goes off and swallow's a whole tub of dbol .. you get the picture) there were a few that were informative and helpful ones though. I went to the doctors and have had blood work done. Also he confirmed my epiphyseal plates are fully closed. I'd just like to thank Papa g as i thought his answers were among some on the most informative and helpful to me, so again thank-you.