Fina/Winny/t3 Advice needed.

**kaoz&zen** · 04-24-2003, 07:29 PM

hey guys time to design my upcoming cutting cycle so i can pick out the correct quantity of what not needed. I'm going to lay it out below and please tell me if there is anything you would change and i will also have some questions posted at the bottom.
I do not want to add test, b/c i would rather try and purely cut without estrogen.

This cycle will be a cutting cycle and i'm still leaning up a little before tthat. cureent stats are 6' 202lbs. at 12% (probably a little higher). I wil lnot be starting for a number of weeks, i already have however started phasing in my diet. I will have a very low carb intake and high protein alternating meals with protein/fat and protein/carbs, but trying to avoid fat/carb meals. I have layed my diet out in another thread. my goal is to try and be anywhere between 182-192@7% if possible, i know this is pretty hard to reach, but i'm oging to push myself. No cardio as of right now, but there i will be some mild intensity sports activity added in before cycle. I can always add in cardio (i like the Idea of HIIT method on bike.)

Anyway the cycle will be exactly 6 weeks long and will be the following:
Weeks 1-6 Winny@50mg/ed
Weeks 1-6 Fina@100mg/ed
Weeks 1-6 t3 (see below)
Weeks 1-2 Clen (see below)
Weeks 3-4 ECA (2 xendadrine 2x/ed)
Weeks 5-6 Clen (see below)
Weeks 7-9 Clomid (see below)
Weeks 1-2 Nolva (see below)
HCG ?

Clen Use
Day 1 @60mcg
Day 2-3@80mcg
Day 4-5@100mcg
Day 6-12@120mcg
Day13@100mcg
Day14@80mcg
Day15-16 OFF
Day17-30 ECA (2 Xenadrines 2x/ed)
Repeat clen phase

Okay, the bad news is that it seems all i can get is Oxiflux, so i actuallly will probably be using 2x the doseages roughly, since this shit is so underdosed. do you htink this is even worthwhile, or should i just scrap the idea of using clen all together?

T3 Usage
Day 1@50mcg
Day 2@75mcg
Day 3-18@100mcg
Day 19-23@75mcg
Day 24-30@50mcg
Day 31-37@25mcg
Day [email protected]

This will be my first time using t3, so do you guys htink this is about right?

Clomid will be as follows:
Day 1 (300mg)
Day 2-7 (100mg)
Day 8-21 (50mg)

Nolva:
Day 1 (80mg)
Day 2-6 (40mg)
Day 7-12 (20mg)

HCG?
I have never used before bu am considering using it this time around simply because fina does sht me down hard. do you guys think this will help me maintain my gans even more so, or would it just be a waste? Pleae if you feel i should use it what do you think would be the most ideal way?

Well, what do yo uguys think, do you think with proper diet this cycle could provide the results i want? I think so, but maybe i am fantasizing. Any feedback (neg or positive) is invited.

**m16a2** · 04-24-2003, 07:57 PM

For your second 2-week period of clen , start back at 100 or 120mcg instead of pyramiding again.

I don't understand your dosage for t3, maybe I'm reading it wrong.

No need to run the nolva, save it for another cycle. And no need for HCG either with such a short cycle.

**kaoz&zen** · 04-24-2003, 08:09 PM

i edited the post for more understandable t3 dosing, sorry i screwed up. the reason for nolva is that i have found through experience it works well postcycle in conjunction with clomid. so you think no need ofr the hcg , it will be a waste? I just want to ensure utmost retention of gains (losses.)

**ECFATCAT** · 04-24-2003, 08:14 PM

you sure took all the fun out of this threat ...I always add test on this one ......

**kaoz&zen** · 04-24-2003, 08:23 PM

haha, i know you do

Not this time, i will sacrifice the muscle gains for maybe being a little harder.

**m16a2** · 04-24-2003, 08:25 PM

The t3 dosing looks fine, stepped up quickly and let down slow. I think you should just run the clomid, you will be just fine with that. You definitely have no need for HCG . In fact, there is much controversy over the use the HCG post-cycle. The convention that I tend to agree with is that HCG should be used for longer cycles as a "mid-cycle" tool.

**kaoz&zen** · 04-24-2003, 08:26 PM

that was my usual thoughtas as well, but hey figured i'd ask.. Thanks so much rampage. so you think the goal is obtainable? I reall yhave no clue what to expect in terms of results since i have no t3/clen experience together.

**m16a2** · 04-24-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by ECFATCAT
you sure took all the fun out of this threat ...I always add test on this one ......

Your definitely right about prop making it more fun, but it depends on the goals of the cycle. All test converts to estrogen, which makes it harder to loose bf%. In most cases I will always agree to add test, since test SHOULD be the base of any cycle... but regardless, if he has decided to leave the test out, that's his choice. Fina-only cycles have had great success. I'm sure fina/winny have also had great results.

Especially if you want to get shreded... with zero-estrogen conversion, and t3/clen /eca cycling, proper diet, and cardio... need I say morE?

**Big Rush** · 04-24-2003, 09:04 PM

About the HCG and fina...you took the words right out of my mouth! If and when I decided to run fina again, I will definitely use HCG (although I never have yet). It is my understanding that HCG is optimal for long cycles, yours is short so I don't know where that would come into play ....tren shuts me down really hard as well. Your cycle looks good, but why no test? i understand the bloat, but why not some Prop? Cycle looks good, except I would run EQ/Test as a base for at least 10 weeks. Is there a reason its so short? As far as the T3 goes, I have no clue but would like to try it as well.

**Big Rush** · 04-24-2003, 09:08 PM

Oh sorry, I see everything I stated above has been covered by ozzy, rampage, and fatcat...LOL...good job guys

**kaoz&zen** · 04-25-2003, 02:40 AM

i just don't think it is feasable to for me to run winny and fina together for more than 6 weeks. I just don';t know how my body will handle it.
Hmm, EQ would be a thought maybe at 600-800mg/wk. but this is just extra money. I don't know, i would consider it, but i just loved the way fina and winny hardened me up. I would also love to try EQ, but plan on doing so at 600-800mg for 16 weeks (it would be =alot cheaper for me to run 400-600mg deca for 10 weeks.), and adding some winny in probably for last 6 weeks. But i think this will be further down the line, i think this cycle right now will provide better results, don't u guys think?

I have given upo on running test while cutting, even if i watch my diet i notice i am prone to gaining fat in estrogenically stored areas (even though i have run arimi.) By not running test, i save the money i would spend on arimi.
Do you guys think maybe i should extend my cycle for 9 weeks? Damn, but that's just more money, i dunno; 6 weeks does seem like a short cycle though and i'm starting to think that the longer you can keep gains occuring the more accustomed your body becomes and hence the better it will hold ointo new found gains (but then again i'm cutting, so who knows.)

I apologize right now, i'm sort of delirious and typing in a stream of consciousness way. If i''m not making sense, i'm sorry.
My liver can take it. i'm sure (i had values checked last time in week8 of a 400mg Deca/750mg Enanth/50mged winny cycle and liver values were not elevated over that of a person with a high protein diet.

**m16a2** · 04-25-2003, 03:13 AM

I'm currently on fina/winny/t3/clen /eca cycling, and it is working wonders as far as hardening is concerned and definition.

If you want to gain some mass though, put the prop in there. At 12% bf, I would use prop personally. Unless you are very concerned with FAT LOSS, add the prop.

That's my personal opinion given your situation.

**kaoz&zen** · 04-25-2003, 05:55 AM

i am EXTREMELY concerned with fat loss. That is my goal for this. I want to be at around 182-192lbs at 7% or as close to this as possible. that is why no prop (i know i won't see the muscle gains), i'm willing to make this sacrifice.

**m16a2** · 04-25-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by kaoz&zen
i am EXTREMELY concerned with fat loss. That is my goal for this. I want to be at around 182-192lbs at 7% or as close to this as possible. that is why no prop (i know i won't see the muscle gains), i'm willing to make this sacrifice.

You see muscle gains, but not quite as much as with prop.

**kaoz&zen** · 04-25-2003, 03:06 PM

So, do you guys think it would help increase chances of my goals to run htis cycle instead for 9 weeks? Or do you think it is possible in 6 weeks. 9 weeks of fina nad winny will hsut me down hard. But maybe the longer my body has to adjust to it's new composition change, the better chance of retaining gains there will be.