First cycle, need some advices

[Dtrain17]

Okay so i've been learning for months and I've read a ton, this is info that I learnt mostly from Ronnie Rowland so this pct should work but I'd like to hear other opinions also, maybe different ways could work b/c there's so many ways to do it.
My goals are to gain as much muscle as I can, i'm lean now (6'0 175lbs) and I'm an ectomorph, I eat 6 meals a day and as much as I can ect. Oh and bf% I would estimate at 10%, you can see all of my abs.

I wanna do Ronnie's 20 week blast and see how it goes, let me know if there's a better way at doing this please!!

**All the way through, I use hcg at 500iu/week.

W.1-8= Test E 500mgs (reload)
W.9-10= Test E 250mgs (deload)
W.11-18= Test E 750mgs (reload)
W.19-10=Test E 250mgs (deload)

Pct: Would start 1 week after last test injection,
W.1-2 Hcg 1000iu eod for 2 weeks.
W.1-4 Nolva 40/40/20/20

Okay so the first 10 weeks I do want test only so I see how I react to it. My questions are: should I use proviron in my 2nd reload/deload or just stay at 750 test and see how I react so I know where any sides are coming from? I wanted to use Eq for 2nd reload but at higher dosages which are needed, it's more expensive than others.

Thanks I appreciate the advice you guys give me, the pct I think may need to be fixed and a 2nd compound with just 500 test like adding d-bol/adrol/deca (one of these) for the 2nd reload may be needed. Thanks

[Fllifter]

Heres my 2 cents run the test E for 12 weeks at 500mg . Two weeks after last pin start the nolva at 40/40/20/20. And what about an AI during cycle ? As for hcg at 1000iu that's too high u might get some unwanted sides. Do 500iu per week

[Dtrain17]

Okay well the way he explained it, the 20 week blast makes sense but I know both ways would work. And okay 2 weeks after b/c that's when the ester is completely gone. I don't wanna use an AI if I don't need to, I'll have it on hand though. Why use it if I don't need it?. Hcg at 1000/week isn't too high is it? Ronnie Rowland recommended more but that's why I'm asking, to see different opinions.

[fit2bOld]

Hcg 3x a week 500iu any more is wasted $$$ as your body can only absorb so much. You haven't posted any stats or cycle experience.......

[Dtrain17]

Ok I'll edit and add them in!

[Dtrain17]

I just checked, I did add stats? It says first cycle in the title also...i'm completely natural as of now.

[songdog]

Wat are your stats? ht wt age bf% and you dont want to start off like this.

[Dtrain17]

21 yrs old, 6'0, 175lbs and i'm very lean, I would say 10% bf. I know it sounds like I can still get a lot bigger but I do eat a lot and often, I don't overtrain or over do cardio, I sleep 7-8 hrs. Thanks

[Dtrain17]

Hcg 3x a week 500iu any more is wasted $$$ as your body can only absorb so much. You haven't posted any stats or cycle experience.......

http://www.steroid.com/HCG.php

Maybe this is outdate but it says this under the hcg profile:
"Your best bet is to start at 250iu or 500iu ed for 5 or 6 days, and if you dont notice anything happening (nuts dropping and getting bigger) up the dose slightly. Small doses like 500iu two days a week isnt going to cut it like some people think. The only thing small doses of HCG ay be useful (sublingually) for is reducing symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (7)."

[Dtrain17]

bump.

[Capebuffalo]

Your 21 and so many things wrong with proposed cycle. I will help you pumpkin but I need to to list everything you ate yesterday.

[gixxerboy1]

Ronnie does have valid points. But that isnt for a first cycle. And def not for someone 21. and if you cant eat more your wasting your time. Once you come off you will loose everything. You have to eat more to support a higher weight

[Dtrain17]

Ronnie does have valid points. But that isnt for a first cycle. And def not for someone 21. and if you cant eat more your wasting your time. Once you come off you will loose everything. You have to eat more to support a higher weight

I eat as much as I can, not trying to say you're wrong but everyone has a limit to how much they can eat right, so I do as much as I can. Once I put on the extra muscle wouldn't I also become more hungry, so I could support it a bit more?

Anyways yeah I'm still reading everyday so that's why I asked about this.

[Dtrain17]

Your 21 and so many things wrong with proposed cycle. I will help you pumpkin but I need to to list everything you ate yesterday.

I eat mostly the same foods everyday, switch it up a bit so i'll give you an example.

Meal 1: 5:30AM I take vitamin C, multi vit/min, fish oil, B12, B complex.
-Oats or granola, 40-50g carbs
-6 eggs, whole, around 40g protein

Meal 2: 8Am
-Brown Rice, 40g carbs
-Peach
-Ground Beef, 35g protein

Meal 3: 11AM
-Brown Pasta, 50g carbs
-Ground Beef, 35g protein

Meal 4: 230PM
-Greek yogurt/Cottage cheese w/blueberries and granola, depends how much I use that day, usually it's around 35 protein and 60 carbs (can't think of amount right now, I check the label when I do it)

Workout and have protein shake after, 35g protein and carb drink 35g

1 hr after workout, maybe 5pm:
-Steak 35g protein
-2 whole grain toasts, 40g carbs
-Apple

Meal 6: 8PM
-2 cans sardines, 36g protein approx
-2 whole grain toasts, 40g carbs

If I can i'll even add in another meal, the toasts have butter and a bit of jam. I didn't list the fats b/c you can see it's enough (I believe), with all that the macros are approx
P/C/F 245/315/90 =3050 cals but I know it end up more. Probably more fat even....that's averaging 15 fats per meal but even w/the eggs, there is 30 right there. This is w/o adding trace amounts like protein from the toast ect.

So I think it's not bad but if I can improve on anything (I think you guys won't have a problem finding anthing lol) let me know! Keep in mind I weigh 175 with decent abs.

[gixxerboy1]

I eat as much as I can, not trying to say you're wrong but everyone has a limit to how much they can eat right, so I do as much as I can. Once I put on the extra muscle wouldn't I also become more hungry, so I could support it a bit more?

Anyways yeah I'm still reading everyday so that's why I asked about this.

know it will not necessarily make you eat more. also after cycle during pct some people loose their appetite.
if you keep eating exactly what you eat know you will always revert back to the 170lbs

[Dtrain17]

know it will not necessarily make you eat more. also after cycle during pct some people loose their appetite.
if you keep eating exactly what you eat know you will always revert back to the 170lbs

Ok question then, why do people take steroids when they can always eat more. Eventually people will always go back right? Tbh I used to not really care what I ate on off days from the gym and now I've switched a while ago, so my diet has been a lot better and since April I've gained on average 1lbs/week, mostly muscle but not all, 180lbs seems to be close to the limit I can get w/eating as much as I can.

So everyone has a natural limit, I think mine might be around 185 lean. Someone who's 200 and goes on cycle, do they just eat more? Why didn't they in the first place without aas to get bigger?
I'm not trying to argue btw I'm asking bc I'd like to know, thanks for the help!

[JWP806]

You have been gaining a pound of mostly lbm per week and you want to start aas? If you are still having crazy solid gains like that, then what is your rush?

[gixxerboy1]

there is no way your natural limit is 185 at 6ft. Genetic limit isnt just how much food you can eat. It takes time to be able to increase your calories and be comfortable.
no you dont always go back to where you started. you have to eat to maintain the new weight. So if you go on cycle and get to 185lbs. You have to eat enough calories to support the 180. If you keep eating like you are you can only support the weight you are at.
people use steroids to get to there goal faster. Or put on more mass then they can naturally.

[Brick]

Ok question then, why do people take steroids when they can always eat more. Eventually people will always go back right? Tbh I used to not really care what I ate on off days from the gym and now I've switched a while ago, so my diet has been a lot better and since April I've gained on average 1lbs/week, mostly muscle but not all, 180lbs seems to be close to the limit I can get w/eating as much as I can.

So everyone has a natural limit, I think mine might be around 185 lean. Someone who's 200 and goes on cycle, do they just eat more? Why didn't they in the first place without aas to get bigger?
I'm not trying to argue btw I'm asking bc I'd like to know, thanks for the help!

Your not understanding it right. If you need to eat 3000 calories to maintain your weight and 3500 to gain weight you need to eat that 3500 once you hit your goal weight as well. If you gain 10 pounds but then revert back to 3000 cals you will lose the weight faster then you gained it. You dont need to be on AAS to eat more as you can see in this forum that many do their first cycle before they are ready ie diet. It doesn't matter how hard you train if you don't eat right

[Dtrain17]

No I took 2 months off cause I hurt my shoulder but I think it's still good gains, I've never been over 178 and now at 176 in the mornings, with eating a lot on off days also I wanna see if I can get to past 180lbs but really it's hard for me. At 174lbs I deadlifted 500lbs and could do 405 for 7, bench isn't too great or squat but I do train hard, to failure on every set w/e over training so Idk I think I'm a hard gainer. I can post a pic later if you guys wanna see where I'm at..my legs are lacking mass which is why I don't weight like 190 but I've always trained em.

[JWP806]

Yeah, post a pic.

[gixxerboy1]

your 3000 calories you eat would be to little for me cutting weight

[Dtrain17]

Your not understanding it right. If you need to eat 3000 calories to maintain your weight and 3500 to gain weight you need to eat that 3500 once you hit your goal weight as well. If you gain 10 pounds but then revert back to 3000 cals you will lose the weight faster then you gained it. You dont need to be on AAS to eat more as you can see in this forum that many do their first cycle before they are ready ie diet. It doesn't matter how hard you train if you don't eat right

I get what you're saying but with eating as much as I can everyday I'm still 'lean' like you can see my abs but they're not great, I don't get why you need to actually be around 15% bodyfat, I think you need some fat but not a lot like, if your're gaining bodyfat each week then those calories aren't helping you so your body stores them. That's how I see it? I figured it was genetics. My first year I gained so much muscle the entire year and I ate w/e I wanted, I even did that the next year and still gained a bit. I started training at 18, around 135lbs I'm 21 now at 176lbs and the gains just don't seem to go up yet calories did!!

[Dtrain17]

Okay, what do you guys do to get rid of the face? I'll get some

[gixxerboy1]

Okay, what do you guys do to get rid of the face? I'll get some

what?

[Dtrain17]

To edit out my face, sorry. I suck w/computers

[gixxerboy1]

use the paint program

[Dtrain17]

Here's a couple to give you an idea, the one on the left I did diet down for actually, so i'm not always like that!

[gixxerboy1]

not bad. still comes down that you are going to have to eat more. Start with little steps. and 1 more egg at breakfast. Sneak in another shake someplace.
also about your 15% bf comment. Its not that people should be 15% to cycle they shouldnt be over it. That is what people are reffering to when you read that

[Dtrain17]

Thanks, well I started off with nothing, like my arms were probly 13", I have a twin brother and we used to always have the exact same build and my forearms the size of his upper arm, to give you an idea. I know what you mean w/ adding in more food here and there. I add olive oil to protein shakes now so right there you can add over 100 cals (NOT post workout tho)

[Dtrain17]

Thanks for the help, did the diet seem okay? I know there;s more sugar than I probly need with the granola instead of oats for example but my body seems to burn it off so I've been adding fats when I can, like now I have all whole eggs instead of a ratio of whites/yolks.

[gixxerboy1]

its not bad, protein is a little low imo

[Dtrain17]

Well if you do 245/175, that's 1.4 grams/lbs. And i'm natural so I figured if anything I need more fats/carbs, if more ppl think I need to up the protein I will but it's pretty tough! I do realize it's all diet also, for suppliments I feel like pre workouts do nothing (for me) glutamine I take but it's not too expensice, creatine never seemed to work so I stick to whey protein and never try to sub that for a meal, If I do i'll add fat in it with carbs for food. That's good to hear that my diets decent though, thanks a lot for the help!!

[DigitalGorilla]

Nothing to do with any of this thread....just a little jealous of everyone tho that says they csant eat enough. lol --- I see people saying they cant get past 4000 cal a day ...... and im jealous cause I could eat 4000 for breakfast if I wanted to ! lol I wish Ilost my appetite !!! even for a day!!


That was back in the day when I was THIS GUY...lol http://forums.steroid.com/attachment...0&d=1341445609

[Capebuffalo]

I eat mostly the same foods everyday, switch it up a bit so i'll give you an example.

Meal 1: 5:30AM I take vitamin C, multi vit/min, fish oil, B12, B complex.
-Oats or granola, 40-50g carbs 2 cups steel cut oats
-6 eggs, whole, around 40g protein 6 egg whites 2 whole eggs

Meal 2: 8Am
-Brown Rice, 40g carbs 2cups brown rice
-Peach all the broccoli you want
-Ground Beef, 35g protein 1 lb ground beef

Meal 3: 11AM
-Brown Pasta, 50g carbs 2 cups brown rice
-Ground Beef, 35g protein 1 lb chicken breast

Meal 4: 230PM
-Greek yogurt/Cottage cheese w/blueberries and granola, depends how much I use that day, usually it's around 35 protein and 60 carbs (can't think of amount right now, I check the label when I do it) scratch this
1 lb taliapia
lg sweet potato
Workout and have protein shake after, 35g protein and carb drink 35g

1 hr after workout, maybe 5pm:
-Steak 35g protein 1.5 lbs lean steak
-2 whole grain toasts, 40g carbs lg baked sweet potato
-Apple all the veggies you want

Meal 6: 8PM
-2 cans sardines, 36g protein approx 8 eggs over 2 orders of hashbrowns
-2 whole grain toasts, 40g carbs

If I can i'll even add in another meal, the toasts have butter and a bit of jam. I didn't list the fats b/c you can see it's enough (I believe), with all that the macros are approx
P/C/F 245/315/90 =3050 cals but I know it end up more. Probably more fat even....that's averaging 15 fats per meal but even w/the eggs, there is 30 right there. This is w/o adding trace amounts like protein from the toast ect.

So I think it's not bad but if I can improve on anything (I think you guys won't have a problem finding anthing lol) let me know! Keep in mind I weigh 175 with decent abs.

See bold.

[doc w]

Just take a picture with your smartphone in front of ur face

[Brick]

I get what you're saying but with eating as much as I can everyday I'm still 'lean' like you can see my abs but they're not great, I don't get why you need to actually be around 15% bodyfat, I think you need some fat but not a lot like, if your're gaining bodyfat each week then those calories aren't helping you so your body stores them. That's how I see it? I figured it was genetics. My first year I gained so much muscle the entire year and I ate w/e I wanted, I even did that the next year and still gained a bit. I started training at 18, around 135lbs I'm 21 now at 176lbs and the gains just don't seem to go up yet calories did!!

When you first start training and eating more your body will utilize the calories more. Also being that young our metabolism should be through the roof! Over those three years you prob filled out more naturally then anything else. You don't stop growing till 25(for some people)

[Dtrain17]

See bold.

Okay looks good just a few questions, why the egg whites in the morning though? I don't like sweet potatos if I had 2 regular baked that would be okay? I also don't love chicken (for meal 4), which is why it's mostly red meat, but I could throw one in. Also what about tuna or sardines instead of talapia? It looks better this way but i'll be sitting down for 2 hrs a day eating...lol

[Brick]

Okay looks good just a few questions, why the egg whites in the morning though? I don't like sweet potatos if I had 2 regular baked that would be okay? I also don't love chicken (for meal 4), which is why it's mostly red meat, but I could throw one in. Also what about tuna or sardines instead of talapia? It looks better this way but i'll be sitting down for 2 hrs a day eating...lol

Sweet potatoes = low GI
potatoe = high GI

[Capebuffalo]

Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt [Sweetpotato]

Serving size:
FOOD SUMMARY
Download Printable Label Image
Nutritional Target Map Estimated Glycemic Load
2.5 4.5 Fullness Factor ND Rating

NutritionData's Nutrition Data's Opinion
Opinion
Weight loss:
Optimum health:
Weight gain:

The good: This food is low in Sodium, and very low in Saturated Fat and Cholesterol. It is also a good source of Dietary Fiber, Vitamin B6 and Potassium, and a very good source of Vitamin A, Vitamin C and Manganese.
Caloric Ratio Pyramid Estimated Glycemic Load
93% 1% 6%
Carbs Fats Protein

17
378
strongly anti-inflammatory
Estimated Glycemic Load


Inflammation Factor




NUTRIENT BALANCE
65
Completeness Score
Nutrient Balance Indicator
PROTEIN QUALITY
82
Amino Acid Score
Protein Quality

Adding other foods with complementary amino acid profiles to this food may yield a more complete protein source and improve the quality of some types of restrictive diets.

Find foods with complementary profile


NUTRITION INFORMATION
Amounts per 1 cup (200g)

Calorie Information
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Calories
180
(754 kJ)
9%
From Carbohydrate
166
(695 kJ)

From Fat
2.5
(10.5 kJ)

From Protein
11.2
(46.9 kJ)

From Alcohol
0.0
(0.0 kJ)


Carbohydrates
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Total Carbohydrate
41.4
g
14%
Dietary Fiber
6.6
g
26%
Starch
14.1
g

Sugars
13.0
g


Fats & Fatty Acids
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Total Fat
0.3
g
0%
Saturated Fat
0.1
g
0%
Monounsaturated Fat
0.0
g

Polyunsaturated Fat
0.1
g

Total trans fatty acids
~


Total trans-monoenoic fatty acids
~


Total trans-polyenoic fatty acids
~


Total Omega-3 fatty acids
8.0
mg

Total Omega-6 fatty acids
120
mg

Learn more about these fatty acids
and their equivalent names

Protein & Amino Acids
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Protein
4.0
g
8%

Vitamins
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Vitamin A
38433
IU
769%
Vitamin C
39.2
mg
65%
Vitamin D
~

~
Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol)
1.4
mg
7%
Vitamin K
4.6
mcg
6%
Thiamin
0.2
mg
14%
Riboflavin
0.2
mg
12%
Niacin
3.0
mg
15%
Vitamin B6
0.6
mg
29%
Folate
12.0
mcg
3%
Vitamin B12
0.0
mcg
0%
Pantothenic Acid
1.8
mg
18%
Choline
26.2
mg

Betaine
69.2
mg


Minerals
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Calcium
76.0
mg
8%
Iron
1.4
mg
8%
Magnesium
54.0
mg
14%
Phosphorus
108
mg
11%
Potassium
950
mg
27%
Sodium
72.0
mg
3%
Zinc
0.6
mg
4%
Copper
0.3
mg
16%
Manganese
1.0
mg
50%
Selenium
0.4
mcg
1%
Fluoride
~



Sterols
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Cholesterol
0.0
mg
0%
Phytosterols
~



Other
Amounts Per Selected Serving
%DV
Alcohol
0.0
g

Water
152
g

Ash
2.7
g

Caffeine
0.0
mg

Theobromine
0.0
mg

I don't like sardines. Chicken is your best healthiest form of protein