1st cycle of sus, what gains can I expect?

[951thompson]

This is my first cycle

Weeks 1-4 50mg of winny tabs
Weeks 1-12 250mg of sus one shot per week?

Had my first shot yesterday and I'm taking the winny, I feel a little stronget already.

My question is, can I expect good gains from this cycle?

My state-run
Weight 175lb
Bf 12%
Hight 5ft 11

All input would be appreciated :-)

[DanB]

your gains are massivly influenced by diet and training, do you know your daily macros?

[Misery13]

Please post your complete stats.

[951thompson]

your gains are massivly influenced by diet and training, do you know your daily macros?

My diet is clean high in protein, I'm upping my carbs while on cycle. My Micros will be 45% protein 45% Carbs and 10% fat.

I work out 4 days per week- Mon back and bicep
Tue- chest and triceps and abs
Weds- day off
Thurs- legs
Fri shoulders and abs

I've been training 10 years I'm quite experienced. Also I'm aged 32

Thanx for your opinion

[DanB]

that is your split but what are actual macros i.e 250g protein, 400g carb, 100g fat 3300ish cals etc?

[951thompson]

My diet is clean high in protein, I'm upping my carbs while on cycle. My Micros will be 45% protein 45% Carbs and 10% fat.

I work out 4 days per week- Mon back and bicep
Tue- chest and triceps and abs
Weds- day off
Thurs- legs
Fri shoulders and abs

I've been training 10 years I'm quite experienced. Also I'm aged 32

Thanx for your opinion

Also maybe worth mentioning I plan on taking in around 3000 caps

Thanks

[951thompson]

Also maybe worth mentioning I plan on taking in around 3000 caps

Thanks

* 3000 cals

[951thompson]

* 3000 cals

Also I'm on a plantains intermittent fasting eating plan

[951thompson]

Also I'm on a plantains intermittent fasting eating plan

*lean gains eating plan

[951thompson]

that is your split but what are actual macros i.e 250g protein, 400g carb, 100g fat 3300ish cals etc?

Around 180g protein
400 carbs
40g fat

[DanB]

Around 180g protein
400 carbs
40g fat

where you get 3k cals from then? its only 2120 and if your original calculation was so far off then Im willing to bet its even less then the figure I just posted

[DanB]

you prob wont grow much if at all on that, mabey drop some bf and add a lil LBM but a waste of steroids IMO

head over the nutrition section and post your diet complete with macro for each meal and the guys there will help you bring it in line with your goals

[951thompson]

where you get 3k cals from then? its only 2120 and if your original calculation was so far off then Im willing to bet its even less then the figure I just posted

I check what calories I'm eating I add them up throughout the day, I'm aiming to eat around 3000

Do you think I can make good gains from this?

Thanks for your help

[DanB]

but the macros you posted adds up to 2100k cals so i dont know how you think you get 3k and based on the info you have given. i have to say no you will be disappointed with this cycle unless you go to nutrition section like i suggested because besically (no offense) but it sounds like you dont really know what yourtalking about because figures dont lie and in this case they dont add up, in fact they miles apart

[MuscleInk]

but the macros you posted adds up to 2100k cals so i dont know how you think you get 3k and based on the info you have given. i have to say no you will be disappointed with this cycle unless you go to nutrition section like i suggested because besically (no offense) but it sounds like you dont really know what yourtalking about because figures dont lie and in this case they dont add up, in fact they miles apart

DanB is correct. Even at 3000 cals this might be on the low side but since you're only working out 4 days a week, 3000 cals would be far better than the 2100 cals Dan is calculating. At 2100 cals, you'll be losing weight, not gaining because you're BMR will be elevated from the gear and the workouts and you will be too close to a caloric deficit to support growth.

I am consuming closer to 4000 cals (3700-4000) daily now on cycle, lifting 5 days a week and while the strength gains are rising quickly, the visible LBM gains are lagging.

[951thompson]

DanB is correct. Even at 3000 cals this might be on the low side but since you're only working out 4 days a week, 3000 cals would be far better than the 2100 cals Dan is calculating. At 2100 cals, you'll be losing weight, not gaining because you're BMR will be elevated from the gear and the workouts and you will be too close to a caloric deficit to support growth.

I am consuming closer to 4000 cals (3700-4000) daily now on cycle, lifting 5 days a week and while the strength gains are rising quickly, the visible LBM gains are lagging.

I will up my carbs and protein little, thanx for the advice. Should you train for longer when on cycle?

[DanB]

I will up my carbs and protein little, thanx for the advice. Should you train for longer when on cycle?

train harder up the intensity and incoporate things like dropsets, pre exhaustion, forced reps, supersets

sweat should drip off you and push yourself to the absolute limit

[951thompson]

train harder up the intensity and incoporate things like dropsets, pre exhaustion, forced reps, supersets

sweat should drip off you and push yourself to the absolute limit

Not a problem because I train like that already, I only rest for 20-30 seconds between sets and I do my sets til failure.

Thanks for your advice :-)

[jacobk91]

This is my first cycle

Weeks 1-4 50mg of winny tabs
Weeks 1-12 250mg of sus one shot per week?

arent u supposed to shoot sus twice a week?

[DanB]

Not a problem because I train like that already, I only rest for 20-30 seconds between sets and I do my sets til failure.

Thanks for your advice :-)

good man but now you need to start going past failure so get somebody to assist you banging out a couple forced reps then a couple negatives

[fit2bOld]

Not enough sust at 250 a week to warrant shutting down natural test as well as limited gains. Maybe reconsider 500 a week split 250 2x a week.

[DanB]

arent u supposed to shoot sus twice a week?

ideally yes and if he was running 500mg then he can pin 1ml.twice a week but at the OP's intended dose he will be fine pinning once a week

[MuscleInk]

good man but now you need to start going past failure so get somebody to assist you banging out a couple forced reps then a couple negatives

Dan's spot on. Balls to the wall! Push harder! Last night my work set for quads was 900lbs, 5 sets of 10. Ended it off with 3 sets at 8 reps at 1040lbs. Personal record. Didn't think I had those last three sets in me. My trainer convinced me I did. My legs were shaking when I was done!

[MuscleInk]

Not enough sust at 250 a week to warrant shutting down natural test as well as limited gains. Maybe reconsider 500 a week split 250 2x a week.

Seems low. I'm running 1200mg of sust weekly.

[t-dogg]

IMO sust should be ran every 3days and I dont feel 250mg's is worth it in my eyes.

[MuscleInk]

IMO sust should be ran every 3days and I dont feel 250mg's is worth it in my eyes.

I personally agree. I'm running 400mg MWF.

[Live for the PUMP]

where you get 3k cals from then? its only 2120 and if your original calculation was so far off then Im willing to bet its even less then the figure I just posted

How did you get your answer of 2120??

If he eats 180g protein, 400g carbs and 40g fat his Calories would be 2,680. There is 4 Calories per gram of protein or Carb and 9 Calories per gram of fat. Not trying to call ya out just curious how you came up with 2120...

[Shadowmaker]

dosage of sust is too low...
and your eating is awful... 90% of how your body looks like is in the diet and you have a bad one...

up the protein to at least 250 grams... the carbs - AT LEAST 400... then see how you respond... dont use any steroids if you gain weight naturally, and if you dont - up the carbs again...
if after a few months - still nothing, do sust 500mg a week or at least... 250mg a week is like a spit in the ocean even for a beginner.

[951thompson]

Not enough sust at 250 a week to warrant shutting down natural test as well as limited gains. Maybe reconsider 500 a week split 250 2x a week.

This is my first ever cycle, I didn't want start to heavy, I've read online that I should see decent gains from 250mg and that its best to start on a low dose that way I will see good gains from my next cycle of 500mg per week

We will see lol

[951thompson]

dosage of sust is too low...
and your eating is awful... 90% of how your body looks like is in the diet and you have a bad one...

up the protein to at least 250 grams... the carbs - AT LEAST 400... then see how you respond... dont use any steroids if you gain weight naturally, and if you dont - up the carbs again...
if after a few months - still nothing, do sust 500mg a week or at least... 250mg a week is like a spit in the ocean even for a beginner.

How do you figure my diet is shit?

[t-dogg]

This is my first ever cycle, I didn't want start to heavy, I've read online that I should see decent gains from 250mg and that its best to start on a low dose that way I will see good gains from my next cycle of 500mg per week

We will see lol

You should be running only 1ester for a 1st cycle. Test E or C. Nothing else ran with it. That way you can see how you react. Again sust should be ran every 2-3 days.

[t-dogg]

How do you figure my diet is shit?

Well its about math. Really low dose of sust thats not being used correctly plus a low calorie diet equals not great gains.

[951thompson]

How do you figure my diet is shit?

I think your all assuming I don't know anything about "nutritionand training, your wrong! I've been training for over ten years, I've just come off a cutting diet. I'm steadily increasing my calories week by week as I've been living on a deficit lately, don't want to be upping my calories too fast because I will get fat I'm at around 2500 at mo I plan to increase it 250 per week, I have two weeks for the sus to kick in anyways so by that time I will be at 3000 cal

[DanB]

You should be running only 1ester for a 1st cycle. Test E or C. Nothing else ran with it. That way you can see how you react. Again sust should be ran every 2-3 days.

I dont agree with this, I dont see what difference him running a blend will make in reality and pinning sust eod is unnecessary, I know the short esters etc but I have used it several times pinning 2x a week and cant say I noticed any difference versus pinning test e twice a week

[t-dogg]

I dont agree with this, I dont see what difference him running a blend will make in reality and pinning sust eod is unnecessary, I know the short esters etc but I have used it several times pinning 2x a week and cant say I noticed any difference versus pinning test e twice a week

For a 1st cycle its best to run just 1 ester. He takes sust and has some sort of reaction to it, how will he know what did what? Chances of reacting are low, but anything can happen. I think you mis understood what I was writing. I pin sust twice a week also, but its every 3days tho because of the shorter ester.



I only ran Test E once and it was once a week @400mg's.

[DanB]

This is my first ever cycle, I didn't want start to heavy, I've read online that I should see decent gains from 250mg and that its best to start on a low dose that way I will see good gains from my next cycle of 500mg per week

We will see lol

You will make gains on 250mg per week, some of our most respected members ran 250mg for their first cycle and were happy with results, personally I would run 500mg but I wouldnt say its a waste of time running 250mg, far from it, it roughly 4x's what your body produces naturally so I cant see how some people (not aimed at anybody just a general statement) seem to think you wont gain off it

In fact I can think of 2 well respected members who still use low dose cycles such as this and are happy with gains, one in particular just finished a low dose test/primo cycle who most people would of said was a waste of time, yet he was happy with his results and he has vast experience

[DanB]

For a 1st cycle its best to run just 1 ester. He takes sust and has some sort of reaction to it, how will he know what did what? I think you mis understood what I was writing. I pin sust twice a week also, but its every 3days tho because of the shorter ester.

But what reaction would he have to a ester? Im not saying it isnt possible but you have to admit it is very very rare, I think it is overkill and sust is used for TRT in the UK and these patients may have never used any AAS in their life

[Shadowmaker]

How do you figure my diet is shit?

yours stats + your experience says that either you dont eat or you dont train, or you lie about the years you have been training.

175lbs is far from any natural limits...

[951thompson]

You should be running only 1ester for a 1st cycle. Test E or C. Nothing else ran with it. That way you can see how you react. Again sust should be ran every 2-3 days.

But why? To maximize the prop in the sus? If thats the case why don't you just take prop? And there's only 60mg, sus acting ester, I'm happy with one shot a week ive got the winny to kickstart the cycle until the longer acting ester Kick in after two weeks, we'll see how I feel after a few weeks, if I feel I need to up the dose, I will.

[MuscleInk]

I think your all assuming I don't know anything about "nutritionand training, your wrong! I've been training for over ten years, I've just come off a cutting diet. I'm steadily increasing my calories week by week as I've been living on a deficit lately, don't want to be upping my calories too fast because I will get fat I'm at around 2500 at mo I plan to increase it 250 per week, I have two weeks for the sus to kick in anyways so by that time I will be at 3000 cal

Not assumptions and no one is deliberately trying to antagonize you. We get requests like yours all day long. We offer help and much of the time the guys making the "ask" do what they want despite our suggestions. Then they come crawling back here when they have unpleasant side effects or lose most of their gains asking us for help to fix the mess they created.

I'm not implying you are one of those guys. We're just playing devil's advocate here making sure all the pieces are in place so your chance for success will increase exponentially. You can take the advice or leave it. It's completely your call but many of the guys offering their critique have achieved the success you seek and speak from personal experience.

.....incidentally, more than 95% of the people asking for help here all say their diet is perfect. Most of them have no idea what a perfect diet is or should be. If you are an exception to the norm, then you are further ahead than most guys in your position.

We're just trying to be helpful.