test vs. test + dbol

**SMcB** · 08-18-2012, 07:51 AM

Which would produce more gains, 500 mgs./wk of test or 400 mgs./wk. of test + 40 mgs./day of dbol ? Also, in regards to DHT conversion, how much would 40 mgs./day of dbol be compared to test? Hairloss is a concern and some people say dbol was a hair killer for them, but according to this website, dbol's anabolic /androgenic ratio is 90-210/40-60 in comparison to test, which has a ratio of 100/100. Wouldn't that mean dbol is a little bit more hair friendly than test?

**songdog** · 08-18-2012, 07:56 AM

Bro if you were ment to lose your hair aas will only speed it up.We get guys like you here all the time.So the only thing you will be told is shave it.Wats up with all you pretty boyz anyways?

**SMcB** · 08-18-2012, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

Bro if you were ment to lose your hair aas will only speed it up.We get guys like you here all the time.So the only thing you will be told is shave it.Wats up with all you pretty boyz anyways?

Okay, forget the hair question. As far as size and strength go, which would result in greater gains, test @ 500 mgs./wk. or test @ 400 mgs./wk + 40 mgs./day of dbol ?

**songdog** · 08-18-2012, 08:15 AM

Dbol will just give you a kick start.Your gains will depend on your diet.I believe this is your 1st cycle? Well if you did any research its suggested to run just 1 compound.That way if you have any sides you know wats causing it.

**stpete** · 08-18-2012, 09:23 AM

Hard to get a straight answer from songdog, sometimes. Don't take it personal. To answer your question though, the d-bol gains will most likely just disappear. I like it as a kickstart, which he stated, for any kind of test. So, just look at d-bol as temporary and will keep no gains. Best way to look at it IMO.

**TOkidd** · 08-18-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

Bro if you were ment to lose your hair aas will only speed it up.We get guys like you here all the time.So the only thing you will be told is shave it.Wats up with all you pretty boyz anyways?

It seems ironic to me that someone obsessed enough with their appearance to take extremely potent, potentially dangerous anabolic compounds to build muscle mass, ostensibly to look good, would criticize another person and call them a pretty boy for worrying about losing their hair as a result of said compounds. People take steroids for the most part to look good - don't try and tell me otherwise. But looking good goes far beyond having massive, rippling muscles. If your face and back are full of acne and your hair is falling out in clumps, who cares how good your body looks. And please don't try to say, "just shave it, man!" as if that's some sort of panacea. Believe it or not, there are people out there who do want to keep their hair and also have a muscular physique. To call these people pretty boys is quite a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

TOkidd

**Shadowmaker** · 08-18-2012, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by TOkidd

It seems ironic to me that someone obsessed enough with their appearance to take extremely potent, potentially dangerous anabolic compounds to build muscle mass, ostensibly to look good, would criticize another person and call them a pretty boy for worrying about losing their hair as a result of said compounds. People take steroids for the most part to look good - don't try and tell me otherwise. But looking good goes far beyond having massive, rippling muscles. If your face and back are full of acne and your hair is falling out in clumps, who cares how good your body looks. And please don't try to say, "just shave it, man!" as if that's some sort of panacea. Believe it or not, there are people out there who do want to keep their hair and also have a muscular physique. To call these people pretty boys is quite a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

perfect coment.

but still, hairloss is a 50/50 thing and if you lose hair on roids you would lose it later anyways so better big and bald than skinny and bald... aaand - look at Statham or Dwayne Johnson or Vin Diesel - the poster boys of being bald and good looking

**TOkidd** · 08-18-2012, 09:32 AM

Oh, and as stpete said, in my experience, d-bol gains disappear almost as fast as they appear. In the end a test cycle will probably produce as much lean mass as one with D-bol added. The only difference is that the D-bol will give you an immediate spike in strength and size so you don't have to wait for the test to kick in to start seeing results. IMO, D-bol has very fleeting results compared with test. When you gain 20 pounds of weight in two weeks from D-bol, don't expect to gain another 20 when the test starts really working. The test will simply prevent you from losing the weight you put on with the D-bol in the first few weeks.

TOkidd

**Shadowmaker** · 08-18-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by SMcB

Which would produce more gains?

im a dbol guy to the max... i dont do any cycle without it - i love it and where i come from it is considered the most basic thing...
its not the roid that will give you solid gains, but for me - if im on cycle and i dont gain shitloads of water and my face is not swollen like ive been drinking for weeks and then slept 2 days in the middle of the desert, its not a f-n cycle dude

altou, the common knowledge of this forum is that you should do test only cycle and i think ill be starting to suggest that too because it seems that you americans have a lot more sides and problems when it comes to steroids and it seems that you people die without that pct thing so it would actually be kinda bad if i would advice you on doing something that could hurt you just because lots of thousands of miles away there is a piece of land in which no one has ever been hurt because of roids

**Lunk1** · 08-18-2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by TOkidd

It seems ironic to me that someone obsessed enough with their appearance to take extremely potent, potentially dangerous anabolic compounds to build muscle mass, ostensibly to look good, would criticize another person and call them a pretty boy for worrying about losing their hair as a result of said compounds. People take steroids for the most part to look good - don't try and tell me otherwise. But looking good goes far beyond having massive, rippling muscles. If your face and back are full of acne and your hair is falling out in clumps, who cares how good your body looks. And please don't try to say, "just shave it, man!" as if that's some sort of panacea. Believe it or not, there are people out there who do want to keep their hair and also have a muscular physique. To call these people pretty boys is quite a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

TOkidd

I am sure the pretty boy comment was a lash out of jelousy against those of us with hair (although mine is getting more gray by the day). Don't take it personal. Never take anything personal on an internet forum man. Hell, If Songdog wanted to call me pretty I would consider it an extreme compliment....well....I'm waiting!LOL

**John Andrew** · 08-18-2012, 09:44 AM

I do not waste time on orals. Test to start, find your body responses over time and decide what is for you! I like to run Test, Eq and Tren . Some will say its a waste of time. We all find what we like! What makes us feel good and at 57, I have hair loss! But not as much as my nephews who have never used. My voice is deep. [ big worry] I am still horny [!!!]

Biggest plus of all, I like the way I look and feel. When or if that changes I will rethink! Good luck John

**TOkidd** · 08-18-2012, 09:46 AM

Lunk1 - Not taking it personal at all - I just thought it was a funny contradiction.

Shadowmaker - I won't deny that D-bol makes you feel great early in a cycle, giving you awesome pumps and fast gains in strength and size. But it's kind of an illusion, because all those great effects disappear so fast. I'd just as soon skip the sides of D-bol and run test on its own. I just chose do that a couple of week ago. I'm running Test and Deca , and was planning to take D-bol @ 40mg per day for the first six weeks, but after a week I dropped the D-bol. It gives me nasty breakouts on my face and back, and I get too damn bloated even with A-dex ed. But I still like the stuff - just not for me.

**Bonaparte** · 08-18-2012, 03:15 PM

IDK why everyone loves to rag on Dbol and claim that the gains are all water.
If it weren't extremely anabolic (twice as much as test per mg), it wouldn't be the most commonly used oral, maybe even the most commonly used steroid of all time.
Sure, it will add some water weight, but an AI can prevent much of the bloat.

BTW, it doesn't convert to DHT, but M1T (17-methyl dihydroboldenone), though at a low rate.

To answer your main question: the cycle with the Dbol kickstart will yield better gains, though I don't think it is really needed for a first cycle.

**gula187** · 08-18-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

IDK why everyone loves to rag on Dbol and claim that the gains are all water.
If it weren't extremely anabolic (twice as much as test per mg), it wouldn't be the most commonly used oral, maybe even the most commonly used steroid of all time.
Sure, it will add some water weight, but an AI can prevent much of the bloat.

BTW, it doesn't convert to DHT, but M1T (17-methyl dihydroboldenone), though at a low rate.

To answer your main question: the cycle with the Dbol kickstart will yield better gains, though I don't think it is really needed for a first cycle.

is deca better that dbol? Meaning less water weight

**Bonaparte** · 08-18-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by gula187

is deca better that dbol? Meaning less water weight

No. And you don't want anything to do with deca until you really know what you're doing. The side effects can be real tricky to manage.

**SMcB** · 08-19-2012, 01:18 AM

Thanks for all the input, guys!

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

IDK why everyone loves to rag on Dbol and claim that the gains are all water.
If it weren't extremely anabolic (twice as much as test per mg), it wouldn't be the most commonly used oral, maybe even the most commonly used steroid of all time.
Sure, it will add some water weight, but an AI can prevent much of the bloat.

BTW, it doesn't convert to DHT, but M1T (17-methyl dihydroboldenone), though at a low rate.

To answer your main question: the cycle with the Dbol kickstart will yield better gains, though I don't think it is really needed for a first cycle.

Wait, so dbol doesn't convert to DHT? I'm not familiar with the M1T compound, is that more or less androgenic than DHT? Theoretically you'd think dbol should cause less hairloss than test, since it isn't as androgenic as test. Do you know how many mgs. of injectable test is equal to 40 mgs./day of dbol?

**Shadowmaker** · 08-19-2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by SMcB

Do you know how many mgs. of injectable test is equal to 40 mgs./day of dbol?

wtf is this? how many gallons of water is equal to 1 gallon of gasoline?
they are 2 different compunds, what kind of question is that?

**Shadowmaker** · 08-19-2012, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by gula187

is deca better that dbol? Meaning less water weight

deca cant be better or worse - they are not the same, they are different compunds and have a different use...

**Shadowmaker** · 08-19-2012, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

IDK why everyone loves to rag on Dbol and claim that the gains are all water.

it holds lots of water, but not "all" gains are water... the only thing that allows you to keep 0 results is Anapolon... dbol still allows to keep result with an index 3 out of 10 - not much, but its a good index for such a cheap stuff and with some other roids together, imo, it un-replacable... dbol has its place under the sun and it wont go away...

oldschool guys did months of dbol only cycles with dosages as high as 100mg a day - the results were great.

**SMcB** · 08-19-2012, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

wtf is this? how many gallons of water is equal to 1 gallon of gasoline?
they are 2 different compunds, what kind of question is that?

Isn't dbol more potent than test on a gram for gram basis? So what you're basically saying is that if you were to run 50 mgs./day of dbol (350 mgs./wk) you would get the same results as if you were to run 350 mgs./wk of injectable test? I don't think so.

**Leisure Suite Larry** · 08-19-2012, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by SMcB

Which would produce more gains, 500 mgs./wk of test or 400 mgs./wk. of test + 40 mgs./day of dbol? Also, in regards to DHT conversion, how much would 40 mgs./day of dbol be compared to test? Hairloss is a concern and some people say dbol was a hair killer for them, but according to this website, dbol's anabolic/androgenic ratio is 90-210/40-60 in comparison to test, which has a ratio of 100/100. Wouldn't that mean dbol is a little bit more hair friendly than test?

Test E 400mg pw + 40mg Dbol ed would easily produce better gains mate.

Yes Dbol would be better for keeping your hair than Test Fo Sho!!

Originally Posted by songdog

Wats up with all you pretty boyz anyways?

Nothing like a full head of hair bro lol!

Originally Posted by SMcB

Okay, forget the hair question.

Can't do that mate sorry....what type of shampoo are you using?

**Shadowmaker** · 08-19-2012, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by SMcB

So what you're basically saying is that if you were to run 50 mgs./day of dbol (350 mgs./wk) you would get the same results as if you were to run 350 mgs./wk of injectable test? I don't think so.

where the hell did you get this?
i said that you dont compare 2 different drugs and try to think how mg of one drug equals some mg of other drug because there is no such thing... you cant compare dbol and test or dbol and deca or anything else... you could try to compare test vs test or smth like that but you just dont compare 2 different drugs - they were made to do different things and that is the reason why they exist - no one would ever make a dbol if some grams of test would do the same thing...

imagine that test is like a food and dbol is like a water... so - you cant really think that by eating food enough you wont need water, and you can never drink enough water to make up for the fact that you dont have any food because if it would work that way, ppl wont need one or other and we would have less problems in life...
same in medicine - if the dosage would be comparable no one would use on or other compund but just adjust the dosage.

**SMcB** · 08-19-2012, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Leisure Suite Larry

Test E 400mg pw + 40mg Dbol ed would easily produce better gains mate.

Yes Dbol would be better for keeping your hair than Test Fo Sho!!

Nothing like a full head of hair bro lol!

Can't do that mate sorry....what type of shampoo are you using?

I'm assuming you're wondering if I use nizoral? Actually I tried that and also nioxin shampoo at another time. Neither did anything to slow down hairloss. I even tried propecia for almost a year and quit because it wasn't making any difference. At least there were no side effects, though.

**Leisure Suite Larry** · 08-19-2012, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

im a dbol guy to the max... i dont do any cycle without it - i love it and where i come from it is considered the most basic thing...
its not the roid that will give you solid gains, but for me - if im on cycle and i dont gain shitloads of water and my face is not swollen like ive been drinking for weeks and then slept 2 days in the middle of the desert, its not a f-n cycle dude

Yeah ****en oath dbol to the max brother, that where the moneys at!!

Just throw em back like their tic tacs

Originally Posted by TOkidd

But it's kind of an illusion, because all those great effects disappear so fast.

Not everyone agrees with that though, a lot of people swear by the great gains of dbol and that not all gains are lost after the cycle.

**gula187** · 08-19-2012, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

deca cant be better or worse - they are not the same, they are different compunds and have a different use...

I had the conception that deca gives you less water weight but slower acting than dbol

**Bonaparte** · 08-19-2012, 08:08 AM

Not quite. It is more like comparing beef to pork. Many drugs can be compared in this way. Opioids and benzodiazepines are often compared to each other and used interchangably once you adjust for potency. Anabolics generally can be too, so long as you are comparing just a specific effect. As far as anabolism goes, Dbol is twice as potent as testosterone , so 40mg of dbol would be roughly equivalent to 80mg of prop daily.

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

where the hell did you get this?
i said that you dont compare 2 different drugs and try to think how mg of one drug equals some mg of other drug because there is no such thing... you cant compare dbol and test or dbol and deca or anything else... you could try to compare test vs test or smth like that but you just dont compare 2 different drugs - they were made to do different things and that is the reason why they exist - no one would ever make a dbol if some grams of test would do the same thing...

imagine that test is like a food and dbol is like a water... so - you cant really think that by eating food enough you wont need water, and you can never drink enough water to make up for the fact that you dont have any food because if it would work that way, ppl wont need one or other and we would have less problems in life...
same in medicine - if the dosage would be comparable no one would use on or other compund but just adjust the dosage.

**Leisure Suite Larry** · 08-19-2012, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by gula187

is deca better that dbol? Meaning less water weight

LOL!

Originally Posted by Shadowmaker

ioldschool guys did months of dbol only cycles with dosages as high as 100mg a day - the results were great.

Heaps of guys still do oral only cycles, and i heard some of those old schoolers going way above 100mg ed......

Originally Posted by SMcB

Isn't dbol more potent than test on a gram for gram basis? So what you're basically saying is that if you were to run 50 mgs./day of dbol (350 mgs./wk) you would get the same results as if you were to run 350 mgs./wk of injectable test? I don't think so.

Yes Dbol is stronger than Test on a gram for gram basis.

**songdog** · 08-19-2012, 08:36 AM

Sorry if I pissed anyone off not my intenion.But there is a price to pay for everything nothing is free.And like I said if you were ment to lose your hair aas will speed it up.And from all the threads I have read nothing seems to really work.Some guys are lucky and keep their hair and others lose it.Like I said its the price of the game.And I am sorry if I offended anyone.