Tren/Mast/Test on cycle question (Have done some searching)

[hamder]

I have been searching around, and i cant seem to find, exactly, what i am looking for.

Starting with tren a, test p, mast p/25 mg. of each ED. Upping to 1½x or 2x the dose, when i see how i react to the stuff. Or should i start higher? 175 mg. of each EW seems quite low. But i wanted to do, kinda like a testdrive .

My cycle history so far is only a couple of dumbass cycles when i was young. One test p and a wins. Recently i ran wins/t3, so for that one, my training and diet was in check. And i know i should not be running this cycle, as of now, but i cant ignore those resulst. So im going for it.

Standard nolva and clomid PCT.

I am going to run .5 - 1 mg. caber ew, during the cycle, and i were wondering if i should include arimidex during the cycle aswell? At .25 - .5 mg. eod.

[Shadowmaker]

i loled at the dosages, dude...
might be ok with tren maybe... but test...dude... 25mg a day? you can use tribulus imo

anyway, i think this is too complex for you now... first off - you dont have much real experience and also - you dont even know what to expect so to be safe you will use dosages less than someone would do for a dog

anyway, with what we have here now - you can up the prop already... 25mg wont even give you erotic dreams which some ppl get from tribulus.
masteron should also be done a lil bit higher... id say, that minimal dosage on test p would be like 250mg a week, masteron like 250-300mg a week and tren also some 300-350...
so, for starters if you feel the need to go low, do at least 250mg of test and masteron... tren could maybe even stay as you planned cause thats one scary shit(i just hate the cough).

[hamder]

I forgot to mention, that it is a stack, combining the three preps in one fluid (50 mg. of each/ml).. Sorry about that. But yeah The doses seemed quite low to me aswell. The low doses comes from the fact that tren is included. But i can deduce from your statement, that it would be wise to start low, so i will.. And if i do not react too bad on tren, i will up the dose. (edit.) = Should i start higher? What i posted, was .5 ml. ED. Should i go 0.75 ml. ED instead? That would put me in ~250 mg. a week.

Any thoughts on the arimidex ?

[Shadowmaker]

Should i go 0.75 ml. ED instead?

Any thoughts on the arimidex?

if you cant up the test and masteron only then nah... its a stupid dosage but i suggest only what I would do, and with tren includes id better stay low at first...

on arimidex i have no idea, so i hope someone will show up and answer

[hamder]

if you cant up the test and masteron only then nah... its a stupid dosage but i suggest only what I would do, and with tren includes id better stay low at first...

on arimidex i have no idea, so i hope someone will show up and answer

alright Thank you very much for your input!

[stpete]

Besides your age, height and weight, you need to do a lot more research. Your diet is off and you need to get that and training together before starting a cycle. Wait another 2 years and you'll be doing yourself a favor.

Good Luck

[hamder]

Besides your age, height and weight, you need to do a lot more research. Your diet is off and you need to get that and training together before starting a cycle. Wait another 2 years and you'll be doing yourself a favor.

Good Luck

Piss off with your ignorant comment

[Faceless Rider]

piss off and don't bother us with a seventh post

[austinite]

Piss off with your ignorant comment

Really? He gave you the advice with your best interest in mind. You should apologize or go elsewhere with that attitude.

[Lunk1]

Feel frre to tell me to piss off as well but you are 5'11" at 166 and 17% BF. I am the same height at nearly 240 and nearly same BF%. You need diet and cardio then worry bout the gear. Remeber Petes advise was for your health and safety so remember that before spouting off!

[hamder]

Feel frre to tell me to piss off as well but you are 5'11" at 166 and 17% BF. I am the same height at nearly 240 and nearly same BF%. You need diet and cardio then worry bout the gear. Remeber Petes advise was for your health and safety so remember that before spouting off!

I have lost nearly 50 lbs. So i must be doing something right. Im not trying to be a dick or anything, but he just assumes that i am an idiot. Nobody wait till their genetic peak to use steroids ? We all know. Granted, i could be much more, before i start. But i am tired of waiting.

[Shadowmaker]

I have lost nearly 50 lbs. So i must be doing something right.

you have probably made bigger progress than some of the guys thinking you are stupid...
there was this one stupid kunt that once said that i dont have any experience cause im young althou i have done more than 10 cycles and seen all there is to see(had acne, gyno, hairloss, everything) and actually know how i react to stuff
in here, you are smart only if you are old... it doesnt matter what you look like, so its kinda better to just change the birth date, because you could be the next Coleman and have like 20" arms and you would still be called stupid unless you are at least 26-29...

[The Titan99]

Piss off with your ignorant comment

You just told the AR monitor to piss off...AFTER he took the time to give you some valuable advice...LOL!!!

[Shadowmaker]

AFTER he took the time to give you some valuable advice

you do know, that if Weider would give such advice to young Arnold we wouldnt have our King of Bodybuilding and there possibly would not even be The Governator?

we can discuss that kind of "value" all day long
there is a 19yr old dude from Austria that became legend of bodybuilding and now is in the US Politics just because he didnt get that kind of advice, lol...

i would like some advice that will make me The Governator please, not the one that will make me rot right where i am, without any hopes and dreams... there is not much need for 40yr old abs in the world guys.
i know you have some knowledge but by trying to save some "poor soul" you also basically destroy some guys lives... when you shut down some 18yr old kid in here, you actually could be possibly destroying the next Ronnie Coleman.

[stpete]

Piss off with your ignorant comment

Piss off and ignorant comment,huh?

I suggest you take full advantage of this site while you can cause i have a feeling you won't be here much longer.

Good Luck in your future endeavors.

[hamder]

Piss off and ignorant comment,huh?

I suggest you take full advantage of this site while you can cause i have a feeling you won't be here much longer.

Good Luck in your future endeavors.

Who cares.. Ill be back. If not, there are many sites, where the mods do not speak to you in a condescending way, which make you look like an idiot. So good luck to you too.. Happy to help make you feel like a bigger man.

[hamder]

you have probably made bigger progress than some of the guys thinking you are stupid...
there was this one stupid kunt that once said that i dont have any experience cause im young althou i have done more than 10 cycles and seen all there is to see(had acne, gyno, hairloss, everything) and actually know how i react to stuff
in here, you are smart only if you are old... it doesnt matter what you look like, so its kinda better to just change the birth date, because you could be the next Coleman and have like 20" arms and you would still be called stupid unless you are at least 26-29...

Thanks for the support. I dont know where these guys come from, with their attitudes.

[*Admin*]

This is disrespectful behavior and you Sir are suspended!

You can think it you can pm it and you can not agree with the advice but you will follow the rules or you will be dealt with...


Good day!

*admin*

.

[*Admin*]

you do know, that if Weider would give such advice to young Arnold we wouldnt have our King of Bodybuilding and there possibly would not even be The Governator?

we can discuss that kind of "value" all day long
there is a 19yr old dude from Austria that became legend of bodybuilding and now is in the US Politics just because he didnt get that kind of advice, lol...

i would like some advice that will make me The Governator please, not the one that will make me rot right where i am, without any hopes and dreams... there is not much need for 40yr old abs in the world guys.
i know you have some knowledge but by trying to save some "poor soul" you also basically destroy some guys lives... when you shut down some 18yr old kid in here, you actually could be possibly destroying the next Ronnie Coleman.

You raise some semi valid points however there is a way to handle yourselves and a way not to...

that said people give advice based on experience... and many have learned that to start young and dumb is not always the best for you as you mature... just ask Arnold... he will agree.... or ask the many that did not make it to the Arnold level because of many injuries or problems that developed because they did or did not listen to people with experience... many stories in this field and everyone is entitled to tell theirs in a respectful way... good bad or otherwise.


We all need to remember that each post is in response to the individual posting and what has been laid out in that post... not all responses will be the same for everyone...

[austinite]

Thank you, Admin!

[stpete]

THANK YOU, Admin!!

[Shadowmaker]

You raise some semi valid points however there is a way to handle yourselves and a way not to...

that said people give advice based on experience... and many have learned that to start young and dumb is not always the best for you as you mature... just ask Arnold... he will agree.... or ask the many that did not make it to the Arnold level because of many injuries or problems that developed because they did or did not listen to people with experience... many stories in this field and everyone is entitled to tell theirs in a respectful way... good bad or otherwise.


We all need to remember that each post is in response to the individual posting and what has been laid out in that post... not all responses will be the same for everyone...

its not other peoples work to decide for these guys...
as i said before - there are lots of reasons why guys wanna use steroids - pro wrestling, NFL, competitive bodybuilding, and take me for example - just my goals in life and the life i wanna live the way i want to...

these older guys in here are telling young ppl to wait, while we all know that there is such a small place in the world for old guys with abs(sorry guys).
in one thread we had a guy that wanted to look like Zyzz... If he would wait till he is 30, he would be 30 year old dude with the dreams of looking like the 21yr internet dude and getting younger babes and goin to those parties shirtless - dude, thats a description of a CREEP.

if a guy wants to be Zyzz, there ir no point of telling him to wait, cause there is no life for that guy when hes 30 - the Zyzz represented a young dude who lived his life with no regrets.
some older guys gave shit advice for a guy like this one, just like it would be a shit advice to give for a dude that wants to make NFL or some cover of the local magazine.

Its not our place to think for people. There are houndreds of reasons to start drug use, and there is only one to wait until you are 30.
You talk about health risks? You could point out the deaths of pro wrestlers and the Zyzz dude, but c'mon guys - tanning is as unsafe as steroid use , you have states like California where its sunny all the time - WELCOME TO THE KINGDOM OF SKIN CANCER!
People are born with some kinds of cancer and other diseases, never having a chance to live a life they wanna live.
My grandma was a health freak - did all the yoga stuff and never ate nothing bad : BOOM - tumor, BOOM - death - thats what you get for being healthy. Even her alchoholic husband still lives and is ok.

For the older guys - it is nice that you want to help, but not everyone wants to start achieving his goals when he has a wife and kids to look after. 30 is much too late to start if you have a higher goals. Even 20 is too late in most cases.
Im asking for all of the young guys in here - just because you dont have a huge goals, dont **** it up for the young guys in here. You possibly end up by ruining some young Ronnie Colemans or Christian Boeving life just because he will decide to wait 10 more years and the realise that no one needs his biceps on a cover or in a WWE ring when he has gray hair.

[Lunk1]

you do know, that if Weider would give such advice to young Arnold we wouldnt have our King of Bodybuilding and there possibly would not even be The Governator?

we can discuss that kind of "value" all day long
there is a 19yr old dude from Austria that became legend of bodybuilding and now is in the US Politics just because he didnt get that kind of advice, lol...

i would like some advice that will make me The Governator please, not the one that will make me rot right where i am, without any hopes and dreams... there is not much need for 40yr old abs in the world guys.
i know you have some knowledge but by trying to save some "poor soul" you also basically destroy some guys lives... when you shut down some 18yr old kid in here, you actually could be possibly destroying the next Ronnie Coleman.

I am not sure I understand your need to consistantly go against the grain Shadowmaker. YES an argument can often times be made for the opposite side of everything but I am not sure when handing out internet advise read by thousands it is a good idea to go against the odds and known averages and say maybe just maybe you should try it..because one guy was able to get a way with it and it worked out for him.

In this particular case the kid is 5'11" 166 at 17% BF! Like I said I am the same height and 240+ at nearly the same BF% and I consider myself 30 lbs or so overweight. At 166 and 5ft 11 inch this kid should be lean as hell but he obviously is not. I highly doubt when Arnold started juicing that he was outa shape and knew nothing about the gym or nutrition. You seem to be intent on giving ppl who OBVIOUSLY should hold off on gear an excuse to "cheat" and forget about what is really important.

Let us not forget that there are some very impressionable minds on here that have a way of hering only what they want to hear and gleaming only what they want to read from a post or comment so try not giving them an excuse to harm themselves please. Like telling ppl you have done 10 cycles by the age of 22...really??? Do you think that is the type of comment or advise that young teens should be getting? I am not talking about the 1 genetic freak who is going to make it. I am talking about the average joe who just wants to get back at the big guy in the gym that stole his girlfriend.

[tboney]

its not other peoples work to decide for these guys...
as i said before - there are lots of reasons why guys wanna use steroids - pro wrestling, NFL, competitive bodybuilding, and take me for example - just my goals in life and the life i wanna live the way i want to...

these older guys in here are telling young ppl to wait, while we all know that there is such a small place in the world for old guys with abs(sorry guys).
in one thread we had a guy that wanted to look like Zyzz... If he would wait till he is 30, he would be 30 year old dude with the dreams of looking like the 21yr internet dude and getting younger babes and goin to those parties shirtless - dude, thats a description of a CREEP.

if a guy wants to be Zyzz, there ir no point of telling him to wait, cause there is no life for that guy when hes 30 - the Zyzz represented a young dude who lived his life with no regrets.
some older guys gave shit advice for a guy like this one, just like it would be a shit advice to give for a dude that wants to make NFL or some cover of the local magazine.

Its not our place to think for people. There are houndreds of reasons to start drug use, and there is only one to wait until you are 30.
You talk about health risks? You could point out the deaths of pro wrestlers and the Zyzz dude, but c'mon guys - tanning is as unsafe as steroid use , you have states like California where its sunny all the time - WELCOME TO THE KINGDOM OF SKIN CANCER!
People are born with some kinds of cancer and other diseases, never having a chance to live a life they wanna live.
My grandma was a health freak - did all the yoga stuff and never ate nothing bad : BOOM - tumor, BOOM - death - thats what you get for being healthy. Even her alchoholic husband still lives and is ok.

For the older guys - it is nice that you want to help, but not everyone wants to start achieving his goals when he has a wife and kids to look after. 30 is much too late to start if you have a higher goals. Even 20 is too late in most cases.
Im asking for all of the young guys in here - just because you dont have a huge goals, dont **** it up for the young guys in here. You possibly end up by ruining some young Ronnie Colemans or Christian Boeving life just because he will decide to wait 10 more years and the realise that no one needs his biceps on a cover or in a WWE ring when he has gray hair.

One of the things that you are forgetting is that this board prides itself on giving safe, sane, factual advice... This is an unspoken rule amongst the more experienced members. The guys starting to young often screw their health up! This is just a simple fact! They also contribute to the demonization of AAS' due to thier ignorance and irresponsible use of these compounds. That has an effect on all of us that want to be able to use these very powerful compounds safely!

There are plenty of boards that have a different mentality! You are certainly welcome to spend your time there!

[Shadowmaker]

I am not talking about the 1 genetic freak who is going to make it. I am talking about the average joe who just wants to get back at the big guy in the gym that stole his girlfriend.

1)with this kinds of advice you give ppl, we would NEVER have any freaks... they would all be scared and hiding under the bed, waiting till they're 30.

2)getting back at the big guy could be a goal in life... my goal is to be the biggest and leanest guy whereever i go, except for pro bodybuilders... its a lifestyle choice - starting with a car, the food, tanning, haircuts, clothes i chose, house i wanna build, education i wanna have, job i wanna do. i have this image of a man inside my head that i wanna become - i trained for some years, gained 55lbs, never could get more weight up, so i started to do steroids ...
now i see that the steroids dont do miracles - i still need 10 years to reach my goals, along with all the factors i mentioned(education, life).
so if it turns out good - i might start to feel good about my life when im 30... its already too late dude.

im just sayin - some guys have goals that cant be fulfilled by getting stucked at some point... life is too short to risk waiting...
get big or die trying... if you start at 30, you might never be that big you have always wanted - not enough time left

[Shadowmaker]

You are certainly welcome to spend your time there!

you are welcome to read my opinion and agree to disagree... you are also welcome to give your advice and to let people give theirs and let the OP choose...

just because someone says what you dont like doesnt mean you just get rid of them... that just shows lack of skills to prove your opinion - that is a sign of weakness in skills of defending your opinion.

[tboney]

you are welcome to read my opinion and agree to disagree... you are also welcome to give your advice and to let people give theirs and let the OP choose...

just because someone says what you dont like doesnt mean you just get rid of them... that just shows lack of skills to prove your opinion - that is a sign of weakness in skills of defending your opinion.

???? I am sorry if you are not able to hear or understand my point...

[Shadowmaker]

???? I am sorry if you are not able to hear or understand my point...

im sayin :

1)people have different goals
2)some of these goals might ask for steroid use at young age
3)for some people not being able to achieve their dreams is worse than death
4)who are you to decide for them?

and you want to shut me up because i actually stand against all of you, being the only one who seems to understand these people who some of you actualy have the nerve to call stupid just because their vision of a perfect life differs from yours.

[Lunk1]

As men and as adults we have reponsabilities. 1 of those is looking out for the health and safety of younger generations as the generations before us did for us. Your mindset is clearly that of a young, immiture child who unfortunatly had the same mindset as this kid had. The mindset that says I am going to ignore common sense, good advise and scientific proof and I am going to what I damn well want to despite the sound advise I am given. You are 22 and have done 10 cycles (supposedly). The negetive side affects of that decision could and most likely will come back to bite you in the ass in your 30's when the rest of us will still be healthy.

I do understand the thought process that there is the rare diamond in the ruff out there who has the genetic capability to be the next Ronnie and can't afford to wait till nerly 30 to start. But I promise you that if that kid shows up on this board someone will know it and it isn.t going to be a kid that's 166 5'11" @ 17%. You are the first to preach every individual should be evaluated individually. WELL...this kid was never going to be Ronnie or Zyzz with those stats, training, commitment and attitude so if handing out advise treat him as an individual and give him the best advise for HIS situation which was given to him by Pete. Stop using!!!

[tboney]

As men and as adults we have reponsabilities. 1 of those is looking out for the health and safety of younger generations as the generations before us did for us. Your mindset is clearly that of a young, immiture child who unfortunatly had the same mindset as this kid had. The mindset that says I am going to ignore common sense, good advise and scientific proof and I am going to what I damn well want to despite the sound advise I am given. You are 22 and have done 10 cycles (supposedly). The negetive side affects of that decision could and most likely will come back to bite you in the ass in your 30's when the rest of us will still be healthy.

I do understand the thought process that there is the rare diamond in the ruff out there who has the genetic capability to be the next Ronnie and can't afford to wait till nerly 30 to start. But I promise you that if that kid shows up on this board someone will know it and it isn.t going to be a kid that's 166 5'11" @ 17%. You are the first to preach every individual should be evaluated individually. WELL...this kid was never going to be Ronnie or Zyzz with those stats, training, commitment and attitude so if handing out advise treat him as an individual and give him the best advise for HIS situation which was given to him by Pete. Stop using!!!

Well said....

[Shadowmaker]

As men and as adults we have reponsabilities. 1 of those is looking out for the health and safety of younger generations as the generations before us did for us. Your mindset is clearly that of a young, immiture child who unfortunatly had the same mindset as this kid had. The mindset that says I am going to ignore common sense, good advise and scientific proof and I am going to what I damn well want to despite the sound advise I am given. You are 22 and have done 10 cycles (supposedly). The negetive side affects of that decision could and most likely will come back to bite you in the ass in your 30's when the rest of us will still be healthy.

I do understand the thought process that there is the rare diamond in the ruff out there who has the genetic capability to be the next Ronnie and can't afford to wait till nerly 30 to start. But I promise you that if that kid shows up on this board someone will know it and it isn.t going to be a kid that's 166 5'11" @ 17%. You are the first to preach every individual should be evaluated individually. WELL...this kid was never going to be Ronnie or Zyzz with those stats, training, commitment and attitude so if handing out advise treat him as an individual and give him the best advise for HIS situation which was given to him by Pete. Stop using!!!

you are right in lots of ways... except the one in which the "new Zyzz" said that he will do a cycle no matter what... look at his first cycle and think again - would it be smart to let him cycle on his own?

when i started i did such a stupid cycles that im ashamed to even mention them in my "had done" list... why? there was no one to help me... not because they dont wanted, but because we have internet just a few years LOL and it was hard to get the "big boys" talk...
i always tought that : "if i was in america, someone would help me" and now i see this guy and he is not getting any help... the guy has pils in one hand and needle in another, he IS gonna do cycle and you just leave him in the dark to act on his own?

that is not mature imo... thats the same as just not saying anything...
i just wanted that he would at least eat more and do some proper cycle because if i would stay quiet he possibly would eat apples and carrots cycling on clen alone...

so - what is really better for him?

[Lunk1]

you are right in lots of ways... except the one in which the "new Zyzz" said that he will do a cycle no matter what... look at his first cycle and think again - would it be smart to let him cycle on his own?

when i started i did such a stupid cycles that im ashamed to even mention them in my "had done" list... why? there was no one to help me... not because they dont wanted, but because we have internet just a few years LOL and it was hard to get the "big boys" talk...
i always tought that : "if i was in america, someone would help me" and now i see this guy and he is not getting any help... the guy has pils in one hand and needle in another, he IS gonna do cycle and you just leave him in the dark to act on his own?

that is not mature imo... thats the same as just not saying anything...
i just wanted that he would at least eat more and do some proper cycle because if i would stay quiet he possibly would eat apples and carrots cycling on clen alone...

so - what is really better for him?

I understand your point...i really do. I also have done some dumb shit on the road to getting where I am. Notice I didn't say the road to getting where I wanted to be? Why? Because that road changes constantly. Does this kid want to be Zyzz (and yes I know who he is) today? Yes! But someday he will want to be husband, a father and perhaps a grandfather. Our goals and lives change day by day. I am sure if you had the oppurtunity to ask Zyzz if he would have prefered 3 or 4 years of being a juiced up internet fad that ppl will forget in 10 years or if he would have preferred to have lived a long, healthy life he would have chosen the latter. I for one love life as it is. With it's ups, downs, goods and bads and I plan to enjoy it till the good lord takes me kicking and screaming.

I know I tend to rattle but my point is...we owe it to this kid to do our BEST to explaiin the pit falls steroid use at his age and in his condition. In these cases "not saying anything" is BETTER than offering advise on how to properly kill yourself. Everytime you offer cycle advise to those who should NOT be considering steroids it gives them the 1 excuse they are looking for to ignore the sound advise they just recieved from the other 20 vets that want to see them be healthy and safe!

[Shadowmaker]

I understand your point...i really do. I also have done some dumb shit on the road to getting where I am. Notice I didn't say the road to getting where I wanted to be? Why? Because that road changes constantly. Does this kid want to be Zyzz (and yes I know who he is) today? Yes! But someday he will want to be husband, a father and perhaps a grandfather. Our goals and lives change day by day. I am sure if you had the oppurtunity to ask Zyzz if he would have prefered 3 or 4 years of being a juiced up internet fad that ppl will forget in 10 years or if he would have preferred to have lived a long, healthy life he would have chosen the latter. I for one love life as it is. With it's ups, downs, goods and bads and I plan to enjoy it till the good lord takes me kicking and screaming.

I know I tend to rattle but my point is...we owe it to this kid to do our BEST to explaiin the pit falls steroid use at his age and in his condition. In these cases "not saying anything" is BETTER than offering advise on how to properly kill yourself. Everytime you offer cycle advise to those who should NOT be considering steroids it gives them the 1 excuse they are looking for to ignore the sound advise they just recieved from the other 20 vets that want to see them be healthy and safe!

again - you are right...
its just - i started to train when i was 15... i was 147lbs... after 3-4 years i was 202lbs and my progress stopped... as i researched, the natural limits of ones body are gaining 30-55lbs depending on genetics... i have really bad ones, and i already had gained the max i am talking about.
its not like i could just continue growing forever untill im 30... in most cases, you can reach your max in a few years...
so i started to cycle... at first i was afraid of everything and then i just saw that its not that bad... i didnt do any pcts(have never done the in 4 years of drug use) i had never had any real side effects... had some gyno - that went away in a few weeks... had some worse gyno once, which didnt go away - but it went away when i started new cycle...
i had never experienced any changes in my libido - on or off cycle... if there are some, they are small and for very short period of time...
testicular shrinkage - lil bit... but the balls come back in a month and bigger/better than ever, lol

i want to be healthy and safe, but i also dont want to be stuck with shit 202lbs for 10years...
i have actually never really felt any health problems on my body so i tend to belive that if you take time off enough, its not that bad... maybe i will die after a year or so - i dont know, but for now - i dont see any other way to achieve what i want to achieve.

so, im telling you this so you would understand that - i can relate to all these guys... even the one who wants to be Zyzz... i dont like Zyzz too much, but i know that this guy has a dream, and i have one.
What do you suggest? I should stop now, lose all my progress i have made over the next 10 years, waiting for my 30's to hit?
i dont really know that its the life i wanna live for next 10 years.

and also - i have never seen anyone get any health problems because of roids...
you can even look at pro wrestlers - most of them are alive and kicking at their 40-45 althou they were on roids at their 19...
older guys have random problems and some of them die - yes... but guys who are not bodybuilders and dont use roids have the same problems at the same age and some of them die also... so - why should we think that the bodybuilders were killed by roids? maybe they would get the same disease without roids just like most of the people in the world do?

[Lunk1]

again - you are right...
its just - i started to train when i was 15... i was 147lbs... after 3-4 years i was 202lbs and my progress stopped... as i researched, the natural limits of ones body are gaining 30-55lbs depending on genetics... i have really bad ones, and i already had gained the max i am talking about.
its not like i could just continue growing forever untill im 30... in most cases, you can reach your max in a few years...
so i started to cycle... at first i was afraid of everything and then i just saw that its not that bad... i didnt do any pcts(have never done the in 4 years of drug use) i had never had any real side effects... had some gyno - that went away in a few weeks... had some worse gyno once, which didnt go away - but it went away when i started new cycle...
i had never experienced any changes in my libido - on or off cycle... if there are some, they are small and for very short period of time...
testicular shrinkage - lil bit... but the balls come back in a month and bigger/better than ever, lol

i want to be healthy and safe, but i also dont want to be stuck with shit 202lbs for 10years...
i have actually never really felt any health problems on my body so i tend to belive that if you take time off enough, its not that bad... maybe i will die after a year or so - i dont know, but for now - i dont see any other way to achieve what i want to achieve.

so, im telling you this so you would understand that - i can relate to all these guys... even the one who wants to be Zyzz... i dont like Zyzz too much, but i know that this guy has a dream, and i have one.
What do you suggest? I should stop now, lose all my progress i have made over the next 10 years, waiting for my 30's to hit?
i dont really know that its the life i wanna live for next 10 years.

and also - i have never seen anyone get any health problems because of roids...
you can even look at pro wrestlers - most of them are alive and kicking at their 40-45 althou they were on roids at their 19...
older guys have random problems and some of them die - yes... but guys who are not bodybuilders and dont use roids have the same problems at the same age and some of them die also... so - why should we think that the bodybuilders were killed by roids? maybe they would get the same disease without roids just like most of the people in the world do?

The problem with Pro wrestlers, movie stars, BB's and many other juicers in the spot light is that you and I only know what they WANT us to know. We don't know that they have been dealing with premature erectile disfunction for most of their lives. We don't know that they have to be on countless meds to combat blood pressure, cholesteral, depression and god knows what else (all with thier own side affects ass well). I think we ALL will agree steroid use CAN be dangerous and like a stated earlier I just don't think it's a great idea to be the guy handing out suicide advise. (I may have went a little extreme to make a point).

As far as advise for your situation...that is a GREAT question to ask some much mor knowledgable vets on here. What should you do with your age, experience, diet, goals, training? I am sure if you asked with an open mind and were willing to listen to constructive critisizm there are ppl here that could help you achieve your goals without such great POSSIBLE risks to your health. I for one hope you do. Good Luck friend!!

[cakemania]

Thank you, Admin!

THANK YOU, Admin!!

REAL hard to create another user. Good job!

Nevertheless.. I have been reading through some of the following posts.

Could you lose 50 lbs, not knowing anything about dieting or training?

Fair enough that do not want this board to be a front for young steroid users. But one cycle is NOT going to kill you. And that is all i want.

Being condescending is not helping anyone. It just makes you out to be a moron. Not even a moron with knowledge. Constructive critisism is the way to go. Maybe you could try it some time. Ofcourse in my case, that would not help, since i have already decided. But if you REALLY mean you want whats best for people.. Guide them to the correct way. Argue why they should wait. Make a sticky "Why you should not be using steroids yet".

And yes.. Nobody wants to be an old ass steroid user. Dumb stuff is for when you are relatively young. Steroid use is an all cases a dumb idea. When one hits 30, other things are at heart, than looking like Arnold. At least in most cases..

[gixxerboy1]

REAL hard to create another user. Good job!

Nevertheless.. I have been reading through some of the following posts.

Could you lose 50 lbs, not knowing anything about dieting or training?

Fair enough that do not want this board to be a front for young steroid users. But one cycle is NOT going to kill you. And that is all i want.

Being condescending is not helping anyone. It just makes you out to be a moron. Not even a moron with knowledge. Constructive critisism is the way to go. Maybe you could try it some time. Ofcourse in my case, that would not help, since i have already decided. But if you REALLY mean you want whats best for people.. Guide them to the correct way. Argue why they should wait. Make a sticky "Why you should not be using steroids yet".

And yes.. Nobody wants to be an old ass steroid user. Dumb stuff is for when you are relatively young. Steroid use is an all cases a dumb idea. When one hits 30, other things are at heart, than looking like Arnold. At least in most cases..

So i guess we should just ban your ip instead of the little suspension then?

[Esculptor]

its not other peoples work to decide for these guys...
As i said before - there are lots of reasons why guys wanna use steroids - pro wrestling, nfl, competitive bodybuilding, and take me for example - just my goals in life and the life i wanna live the way i want to...

These older guys in here are telling young ppl to wait, while we all know that there is such a small place in the world for old guys with abs(sorry guys).
In one thread we had a guy that wanted to look like zyzz... If he would wait till he is 30, he would be 30 year old dude with the dreams of looking like the 21yr internet dude and getting younger babes and goin to those parties shirtless - dude, thats a description of a creep.

If a guy wants to be zyzz, there ir no point of telling him to wait, cause there is no life for that guy when hes 30 - the zyzz represented a young dude who lived his life with no regrets.
Some older guys gave shit advice for a guy like this one, just like it would be a shit advice to give for a dude that wants to make nfl or some cover of the local magazine.

Its not our place to think for people. There are houndreds of reasons to start drug use, and there is only one to wait until you are 30.
You talk about health risks? You could point out the deaths of pro wrestlers and the zyzz dude, but c'mon guys - tanning is as unsafe as steroid use , you have states like california where its sunny all the time - welcome to the kingdom of skin cancer!
People are born with some kinds of cancer and other diseases, never having a chance to live a life they wanna live.
My grandma was a health freak - did all the yoga stuff and never ate nothing bad : Boom - tumor, boom - death - thats what you get for being healthy. Even her alchoholic husband still lives and is ok.

For the older guys - it is nice that you want to help, but not everyone wants to start achieving his goals when he has a wife and kids to look after. 30 is much too late to start if you have a higher goals. Even 20 is too late in most cases.
Im asking for all of the young guys in here - just because you dont have a huge goals, dont **** it up for the young guys in here. You possibly end up by ruining some young ronnie colemans or christian boeving life just because he will decide to wait 10 more years and the realise that no one needs his biceps on a cover or in a wwe ring when he has gray hair.

perfect man ! *_*

[stpete]

I think so Gix! Some people just don't know when to quit.

[measuretwicecutonce]

you have probably made bigger progress than some of the guys thinking you are stupid...
there was this one stupid kunt that once said that i dont have any experience cause im young althou i have done more than 10 cycles and seen all there is to see(had acne, gyno, hairloss, everything) and actually know how i react to stuff
in here, you are smart only if you are old... it doesnt matter what you look like, so its kinda better to just change the birth date, because you could be the next Coleman and have like 20" arms and you would still be called stupid unless you are at least 26-29...

great advise. then when he has test problems n has to be on TRT for life n struggles thru depression for psychological reasons all thru his 20s among with the other problems from cycling young, we know who to point the finger at.

[The Titan99]

its not other peoples work to decide for these guys...
as i said before - there are lots of reasons why guys wanna use steroids - pro wrestling, NFL, competitive bodybuilding, and take me for example - just my goals in life and the life i wanna live the way i want to...

these older guys in here are telling young ppl to wait, while we all know that there is such a small place in the world for old guys with abs(sorry guys).
in one thread we had a guy that wanted to look like Zyzz... If he would wait till he is 30, he would be 30 year old dude with the dreams of looking like the 21yr internet dude and getting younger babes and goin to those parties shirtless - dude, thats a description of a CREEP.

if a guy wants to be Zyzz, there ir no point of telling him to wait, cause there is no life for that guy when hes 30 - the Zyzz represented a young dude who lived his life with no regrets.
some older guys gave shit advice for a guy like this one, just like it would be a shit advice to give for a dude that wants to make NFL or some cover of the local magazine.

Its not our place to think for people. There are houndreds of reasons to start drug use, and there is only one to wait until you are 30.
You talk about health risks? You could point out the deaths of pro wrestlers and the Zyzz dude, but c'mon guys - tanning is as unsafe as steroid use , you have states like California where its sunny all the time - WELCOME TO THE KINGDOM OF SKIN CANCER!
People are born with some kinds of cancer and other diseases, never having a chance to live a life they wanna live.
My grandma was a health freak - did all the yoga stuff and never ate nothing bad : BOOM - tumor, BOOM - death - thats what you get for being healthy. Even her alchoholic husband still lives and is ok.

For the older guys - it is nice that you want to help, but not everyone wants to start achieving his goals when he has a wife and kids to look after. 30 is much too late to start if you have a higher goals. Even 20 is too late in most cases.
Im asking for all of the young guys in here - just because you dont have a huge goals, dont **** it up for the young guys in here. You possibly end up by ruining some young Ronnie Colemans or Christian Boeving life just because he will decide to wait 10 more years and the realise that no one needs his biceps on a cover or in a WWE ring when he has gray hair.

THE GUY IS TOO YOUNG!! HE HAS 137 lbs of lean body mass for Christsake!!! AND that's if he's being completely honest. Seriously dude, pick your battles. Do you really want to be on that side of the argument? It also sounds like your taking AAS to pick up chic's? You've got to be joking!!! I see your from Eastern Europe. Wouldn't it be easier to just get a job and take a shower and not act like an a$$hole? I'm a 47 year old dive instructor with vascular ab's who goes to beach parties year around. My place in this world is as far as the eye can see. I'm not what I consider a good looking guy, but I get more 20 year old ass than a New York bus stop bench. I'm also 265 lbs and 8-9% BF. Doesn't have a thing to do with getting girls either...