Switching Cycles Question

[dragonroid]

Alright, I got bad advice before from friends and whatever about doing an oral only cycle... I was under the impression I could get great gains and such being on a dbol and primo cycle. I have done the research on how it is hard on the liver and all such. I chose to do that stack over the dbol and winstrol stack due to 2 liver toxins in my body (thought that might be really bad). I have came to realise the reason I felt so prone against doing a test e cycle was just the fact that I was scared to inject (not the pain, but doing it wrong). I have then began to do all kinds of research on how to preform it safely and it seems much easier on my body and everything. Although, I do not feel liver pain much since I drink a lot of water throughout the day (maybe I have a strong liver or something), then again I am only on my second week.

Current Cycle (6weeks):
Dbol 50 mg/ed (started first week at 30mg/ed)
Primo 45mg/ed

I have found based on my body stats those are best for me.

Body stats:
Lifting for over 3 years (about half was cutting though)
Height 5'9
Weight 170lbs
BF% approx 13-14%
Goals gain 10 lbs of lean muscle

My question is, I want to switch over to 500mg/ew Test - e cycle, but I do not know if I should PCT from this cycle now or to incorporate the current cycle with test - e. Or if I should just switch it over and just drop the dbol and primo and start test-e right away? I have been on this cycle for only about 2 weeks, so I don't think it should be a problem just to switch over (or should I take the current stack to?). I would really like to know your advice and I have came to realise oral only cycles are not worth it.

Thanks.

[Metalject]

I'm assuming the Primo was oral Primo...just for future reference, 45mg/ed is less than most women would take. Most guys need at least 75mg/ed if they're going to get anything out of it. 100-150mg/ed is more like it. Also, oral Primo is not toxic to the liver. It's one of the few oral steroids that's not C17 alpha alkylated and carries no hepatotoxic nature.

Conversely, Dbol is hepatic, not as much as some steroids but strong enough to where you'll want to limit its use if your liver is going to remain healthy. It's prolonged use that causes damage, that's why most will limit use to 6-8wks without using any other C17-aa steroids for at least that long after they've used one like Dbol...IMO, 8wks is pushing based on the results you can get with this steroid.

Anyway, your liver is not hurting because that's not how it works. When you're using this type of steroid, liver enzyme values increase, but you cannot equate increased values directly to liver damage. It's the presence of high enzyme values for a prolonged period of time that can lead to damage or added stress coupled with the steroid use. This is why it's often advised to avoid heavy alcohol consumption when using a C17-aa steroid or avoiding it all together. Avoiding all OTC meds when possible is also a good idea as many are far more hepatic than many steroids. BTW, I am oversimplifying a bit, but this is the gist.

Your testosterone levels are definitely suppressed at this state. Not completely, but you've probably cut your total serum levels by a good 2/3rd.

Without a PCT, assuming there is no prior low test condition or related underlying issue (you're healthy) you could easily recover your testosterone levels from this cycle in about 4 months. Dbol and Primo are some of the easier steroids to recover from. This doesn't mean you should forgo a PCT plan. It will improve the recovery rate and you'll probably feel a lot better. If you go this route, I wouldn't recommend jumping right back on cycle after your PCT. This is one of the dumbest things a lot of guys do. It largely makes the PCT pointless. Stimulating natural testosterone production only to immediately shut it down is far more stressful to the body than a lot of things you could do. If you go this route, plan on staying off 2-3months after your PCT. If you want to switch over to Test-e, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with this...it might be better to just scrap this cycle and start over in the future though. If you did switch over, it's not going to be the end of the world or anything.

[t-dogg]

Well, youre 21. You should just stop now. 25 is the ideal age to start doing cycles. You need to focus on training, diet, lifting and researching so you know what you are doing.

[dragonroid]

Thanks, Metalject for your detailed answer. I did not find specific dosing on primo tabs as I did base it off of injectable solutions. I will continue to read more before I decide to make the switch. I do have a PCT ready, as I would like to restore to my original levels. I was more curious if I am switching from anabolic to injection, should one actually PCT only after 2 weeks in. I am prone against taking them both together, because I do not like mixing multiple substances, even if it's supplements just so I know how my body does react to things, just to not hurt myself. But, thank you both for fast responses and I understand how one may think 21 is too young and I respect that, but I do have a good focus on training and diet... I may have slightly lower test levels than the average person, could be because I work an intense job in an automotive plant. But, I do read up on things I do take even if it is just supplements and I know how things can really mess your body up. But, once again I will research more prior to any change. Thanks a lot for your advice guys.

[austinite]

Well, youre 21. You should just stop now. 25 is the ideal age to start doing cycles. You need to focus on training, diet, lifting and researching so you know what you are doing.

Agree. Focus, diet and training is irrelevant to the potential consequences.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.UDGN4allSDk

[t-dogg]

Well maybe you focused on traing so let me go into more detail. If you already have low Test and start a real cycle at your age. Chances are you will be on TRT at a very young age. You ARENOT fully mature yet in terms of your body growing.


So instead of taking what I said as disrepect, go read on what happens to younger people who cycle. Better yet ask a few board members here what happened to them.

Good luck

[dragonroid]

Thanks t-dogg, I do understand what you are talking about and I do not take your words as disrespect. I came here seeking info and even though the truth hurts sometimes, it all comes down to the truth. I will look around and try to find more information. Might finish this cycle and PCT, then be more focused on diet to maximize potential gains. Thank you all for your help.

[songdog]

Diet and training should be your main focus.AAS at this stage can only hurt you.