sus or test e

[honda88]

planning on running a 10-12 week cycle gonna stack deca with either sus or test e... what do you's thinks better ? im thinking test e because of the less frequent injections but is there any other benefits to choosing this over sus ? thanks in advance

[D7M]

It really doesn't matter, and you can shoot sust twice a week just fine.

Here you go:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...y#.UDJwp6P-3DM

[D7M]

While we're at it, what's the complete cycle plan?

What are your starting stats?

[honda88]

While we're at it, what's the complete cycle plan?

What are your starting stats?

starting weight 13st 6 6ft

weeks 1-6 750mg sus 600 mg deca
weeks 6-10 1000mg sus 900mg deca

got nolva and cholmid for pct

gawny take proviron and aromasin throughout cycle...

any advice or criticism welcomed

[D7M]

Previous cycles?

[honda88]

Previous cycles?

test e and dbol 8 weeks

apart from that just pro hormones

[D7M]

Ok. A few things:

I don't particularly care for "ramping" up your dose. I've tried it. I think it's unnecessary.

I'm not concerned about your test dose if you're ready for it, but god damn 900mg/wk of deca . You won't feel good man.

I've gone up to 800mg/wk of deca and had to scale it back. 600mg/wk is a solid dose, yeilds excellent gains, and you won't have a shit ton of sides to deal with .

It's up to you with the Prov/aromasin thing, but it would probably be easier and simpler to just run an AI.

[D7M]

For your third cycle, I"m going to re-design it this way:

Week 1-12 Test E 600mg/wk
Week 1-10 Deca 400mg/wk

Get your diet on point, make sure your training is as fvcking intense as it can be, and you'll grow on that. You don't need 2g of gear total on your 3rd cycle my man.

[honda88]

Ok. A few things:

I don't particularly care for "ramping" up your dose. I've tried it. I think it's unnecessary.

I'm not concerned about your test dose if you're ready for it, but god damn 900mg/wk of deca . You won't feel good man.

I've gone up to 800mg/wk of deca and had to scale it back. 600mg/wk is a solid dose, yeilds excellent gains, and you won't have a shit ton of sides to deal with .

It's up to you with the Prov/aromasin thing, but it would probably be easier and simpler to just run an AI.

so you think keep the test at say 750mg for the full cycle and keep the deca at 500-600 mg ? and just rum aromasin instead of both ?

[honda88]

For your third cycle, I"m going to re-design it this way:

Week 1-12 Test E 600mg/wk
Week 1-10 Deca 400mg/wk

Get your diet on point, make sure your training is as fvcking intense as it can be, and you'll grow on that. You don't need 2g of gear total on your 3rd cycle my man.

cheers for input mate appreciated.. u reckon to go for test e over sus then aswell ?

[honda88]

also am gawny run accutane throughout the cycle to keep previous acne at bay this shouldnt have any real effect on anything should it, i will be gettin bloods took every month or so ..

[D7M]

cheers for input mate appreciated.. u reckon to go for test e over sus then aswell ?

Doesn't really matter, mate.

Enanth should be cheaper

[honda88]

Doesn't really matter, mate.

Enanth should be cheaper

appreciated..

[Times Roman]

I'd go with E. "they" charge too much to go with multiple esthers in the same cocktail like sust.

[honda88]

a can get both for same price...

[t-dogg]

Either or is fine. At 500mgs id be pinning twice a week. Sust should be done every three days.


Also i would not ramp the dose up imo. Keep it the same for the entire cycle.


Also i wouldnt be runnung deca on your 2nd cycle. I also wouldnt be running so much test/sust. 500mgs is plunty on a 2nd cycle pending your diet is right.

[honda88]

Either or is fine. At 500mgs id be pinning twice a week. Sust should be done every three days.


Also i would not ramp the dose up imo. Keep it the same for the entire cycle.


Also i wouldnt be runnung deca on your 2nd cycle. I also wouldnt be running so much test/sust. 500mgs is plunty on a 2nd cycle pending your diet is right.

what you reckon for second cycle, really want to add something to it this time as much as i gained from the dbols i really want add something stronger and will give me longer gains.

appreciate the reply thanks.

[t-dogg]

what you reckon for second cycle, really want to add something to it this time as much as i gained from the dbols i really want add something stronger and will give me longer gains.

appreciate the reply thanks.

Personally i like lean muscle, so i hate dbol . Dbol isnt a long gain btw.


For a 2nd cycle id run test or sust @500mg's for 12wks. Have your diet on point and you will like the gains.


Whats your stats?

[CrazyCanuck]

Imo Sust is an over rated and over priced compound. Stick with Test e you'll be fine.

[t-dogg]

Imo Sust is an over rated and over priced compound. Stick with Test e you'll be fine.

Please explain this?

[stpete]

I prefer E, keeping dosages the same thru the cycle.

[Bio-Active]

I prefer E, keeping dosages the same thru the cycle.

^^ agreed Test E keeps my levels steadier shot every 3.5 days

[measuretwicecutonce]

900 deca is dumb. 1st time deca user should use 3-400, and 5-600 if he's ballsie. no need to go that high. i agree with the dude that said 400deca/600 test. this is a nice dose n ratio. id say test e. pin them together. with sus u should be pinion eod or ed. unless ur deca is npp then definitely goes sus eod.

[measuretwicecutonce]

2 theories here. test is test so it don't matter n the other ester synergy.

[D7M]

Either or is fine. At 500mgs id be pinning twice a week. Sust should be done every three days.




Also i would not ramp the dose up imo. Keep it the same for the entire cycle.


Also i wouldnt be runnung deca on your 2nd cycle. I also wouldnt be running so much test/sust. 500mgs is plunty on a 2nd cycle pending your diet is right.

Some reading for you:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...y#.UDLdv6OQlxU
And ftr, I'm fine with deca on a second cycle.

[t-dogg]

Some reading for you:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...y#.UDLdv6OQlxU
And ftr, I'm fine with deca on a second cycle.

What about it? If your point is saying that sust should be ran every other day, well most would agree they dont see ANY difference from EOD or E3D. Your choice really. Pinning ass that has a very short ester like Test P in it doesnt make any sense at all once a week. Why even run it then? You want to pin once a week, go with the longer ester.




And running that much Test/Deca is dumb for a second cycle. I highly dout you need that kind of dosage. Again, what are your stats?

[D7M]

What about it? If your point is saying that sust should be ran every other day, well most would agree they dont see ANY difference from EOD or E3D. Your choice really. Pinning ass that has a very short ester like Test P in it doesnt make any sense at all once a week. Why even run it then? You want to pin once a week, go with the longer ester.

Ugh. No, the whole point of my sust thread is that it doesn't need to be taked EOD or E3D to "take advantage of the prop". Because of the very nature of sust the prop and phenylprop will release concomitantly making the release very similar to that of a long ester.

[t-dogg]

Ugh. No, the whole point of my sust thread is that it doesn't need to be taked EOD or E3D to "take advantage of the prop". Because of the very nature of sust the prop and phenylprop will release concomitantly making the release very similar to that of a long ester.

Can you provide any proof to this other then a thread writen by yourself?

[D7M]

Sure. How about just taking a look at the chemical composition of it.

Or you can search yourself.

My thread was by no means ground breaking.

It's actually pretty common knowledge, and my thread was just a friendly reminder.

[D7M]

I really don't care to repeat everything from my thread here, but that is why sust was created/designed. For TRT patients. Why the hell would you make a drug for TRT patients that has to be administered EOD or E3D?

Sust was designed to release that way.

[t-dogg]

Sure. How about just taking a look at the chemical composition of it.

Or you can search yourself.

My thread was by no means ground breaking.

It's actually pretty common knowledge, and my thread was just a friendly reminder.

Interesting I just did a quick search again on this. Every site pretty much said the same thing. If you inject once a week you will not gain the same results as someone who injects every three days or every other day.

I look forward to your links to what you say.

[gixxerboy1]

Interesting I just did a quick search again on this. Every site pretty much said the same thing. If you inject once a week you will not gain the same results as someone who injects every three days or every other day.

I look forward to your links to what you say.

i've done it ed and 2x a week and there was absolutely no difference.

[t-dogg]

i've done it ed and 2x a week and there was absolutely no difference.

I believe you Gix, as do just about everyone who has ran sust before. However I need to see real proof that injecting once a week of sust will carry the same results and keep all blood levels just as stable as every three days or every other day.

[D7M]

Interesting I just did a quick search again on this. Every site pretty much said the same thing. If you inject once a week you will not gain the same results as someone who injects every three days or every other day.

I look forward to your links to what you say.

Every site? What sites? other forums with packed with guys who don't understand the chemistry of Sust and just using bro science?

I don't have to give you links.

It's very basic.

Nor do I have to convince you when I've already given you proof.

I will say, as I said in my sust thread that you clearly didn't read, that while you can shoot sust once a week, that just like a single long ester (cyp, enan) for BBing purposes a twice a week administration is optimal.

But, again, you do not need to shoot sust ED to "take advantage of the prop" (or the phenylpropionate for that matter!)

You clearly are only hearing what you want to, so I wish you luck.

[t-dogg]

Every site? What sites? other forums with packed with guys who don't understand the chemistry of Sust and just using bro science?

I don't have to give you links.

It's very basic.

Nor do I have to convince you when I've already given you proof.

I will say, as I said in my sust thread that you clearly didn't read, that while you can shoot sust once a week, that just like a single long ester (cyp, enan) for BBing purposes a twice a week administration is optimal.

But, again, you do not need to shoot sust ED to "take advantage of the prop" (or the phenylpropionate for that matter!)

You clearly are only hearing what you want to, so I wish you luck.

1) As for sites I just looked at, google "sust injecting frequency" thats all I did for this.

2) Normally someone who believes in science, not "bro science" provides proof as to what they are talking about.

3) You didnt give any proof at all, you made a thread siting what you "think", "bro science"?

4) I did read what you said on the first page. You posted what you think, nothing more. No hard links or tests backing your once a week logic for pinning.

5) For optimal use period pinning at least twice a week is best with sust. You want to just pin once a week, a pure longer ester is best.

6) I didnt dispute this at all.


Give me a few mins to find a test done on sust I just read. It will show the difference in levels in the body from someone who injects each day to every other day to once a week. Actually there is a thread on here that someone done and was tested on also.


http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/sustanon.html

http://www.steroidabuse.com/Profiles/sustanon-250.html


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t#.UDO8xd2PUs4

^^^

read the last few pages and see where they pull from tests that were done, and how much they inject with frenqency.

[D7M]

1) As for sites I just looked at, google "sust injecting frequency" thats all I did for this.

2) Normally someone who believes in science, not "bro science" provides proof as to what they are talking about.
I did! In my thread! I really don't think you took the time to read it and absorb it.

3) You didnt give any proof at all, you made a thread siting what you "think", "bro science"?
Actually I used a form of deductive reasoning: moving from general principle to specific conclusions.
1. Sust was created for TRT
2. The heavy deconaote ester will release longer while the prop and phenyl prop release quicker. Therefore,
3. Twice a week administration of sust is acceptable, where as EOD or E3D administration is simply preferential.

4) I did read what you said on the first page. You posted what you think, nothing more. No hard links or tests backing your once a week logic for pinning.
Once again, based on the structure of the compound, I don't really need to provide links. Is this a generational thing? Like the younger generation that needs a link for it to be verified?

5) For optimal use period pinning at least twice a week is best with sust. Agreed

You want to just pin once a week, a pure longer ester is best. Somewhat agreed. I use Cyp or Enan for my own TRT needs.


6) I didnt dispute this at all.


Give me a few mins to find a test done on sust I just read. It will show the difference in levels in the body from someone who injects each day to every other day to once a week. Actually there is a thread on here that someone done and was tested on also.


http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/sustanon.html

Ok, this one says there is debate about sust pinning. The author then makes the assumption that those who are pinning once a week are using high amounts. See this is critical reading skills. Where the hell did he get that assumption from? He goes on to say,

However, from my experience, many of these same users are running high quantities of sustanon (as much as 750mg and more each week). The logical conclusion here is that sustanon can be injected only once a week, but as stipulated above, this is done only at the loss of the shorter acting propionate and phenylpropionate esters

See this is where he and you are wrong. The prop and phenyl prop will release quicker, yes, but you won't "loose" them. lol. They will release CONCOMITANTLY (ie, in conjunction) with the longer esters. So the short esters are releasing while the longer ones pick up the slack. That make sense?

http://www.steroidabuse.com/Profiles/sustanon-250.html

I'm glad you picked this one! Just so happens I know the guy who wrote that, and he's pretty damn smart. As he says

By creating such a compound an HRT patient could effectively keep testosterone flowing through their body and necessarily only administer the hormone once every 3-4 weeks to achieve such an end. While following such protocol would prove to be effective, as the compound was a success in this regard, maintaining stable blood levels is quite a different story and for that reason those who use Sustanon 250 for performance purposes will find frequent injections to be an absolute necessity.

This is exactly what I'm saying, although he remains neutral and doesn't get into the pinning frequency debate. I said several times that twice a week injections are preferable for BBers, and E3D or EOD is preference.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t#.UDO8xd2PUs4

All those charts show is the idea of frontloading. That logic will hold true for any compound, really.

^^^

read the last few pages and see where they pull from tests that were done, and how much they inject with frenqency.

Bolds above.

Good discussion, bro.

[t-dogg]

Lol is it to much to ask for a test ester that is fast acting like test p or s that you only need to pin once a week.

[D7M]

lol...right?

Suspension that only needs to be pinned once a week.

[honda88]

8 weeks into cycle some progress pics....



strengh gains are insane no real sides loving this shit !