How to determine acceptable weight gains?

[kmms]

please forgive me if this information has already been covered in a sticky. i have read through practically all of them in each forum and have not found the information i was looking for. if there is a sticky covering this topic, please link it here or direct me to it and i will be happy to read it as well.

My question is this, how do you determine what is a healthy, acceptable range of total gains from a cycle of aas?

i do understand that this cannot be precise, particularly without regards to the aas involved as well as the individual stats, so for discussion purposes let's assume the following:

very healthy athletic male, 40+ who engages in a weight training program of 3 days on 1 day off. very brief cardio sessions immediately follow a 1 hour max weight training session and cardio consists entirely of sprints in beach sand. further, approximately 2 hours each day spent in low impact athletic activity.

assuming that the diet consists entirely of unprocessed foods and that no salt, sugar or carbonated beverage of any type is ever consumed. raw vegetables and fruits, chicken breast, tuna, hard boiled eggs, pork tenderloin and greek yogurt, almonds walnuts pumpkin seeds and dried cranberry, ascenta liquid fish oil and whole fresh coconut (water, meat and oil) make up the bulk of the daily menu. further, assume that maintenance is reached on a daily basis as there has been no change in weight (160 lbs) for a number of adult years.

consider then that one engages in an aas protocol consisting of 500mg test enth (250x2) each week plus 25mg of danabol (5mgx5)daily as well as increasing the daily menu by adding 1 additional meal (either brown rice with chicken breast and kale and fried in coconut oil, or 1tbsp peanut butter with unsweetened yogurt) to bring the calorie count to maintenance plus 2-300 per day. approximately 8 liters of water each day inclusive of 2 whole coconuts, as well as 4 cups green tea.

operating under those assumptions, what would you consider to be a "typical" expectation of total weight gained during the first four weeks of this aas protocol (basically the danabol phase)? again, if there is already a thread specifically covering this topic please direct me to it as i'd be happy to read it, and thank you all for sharing your time and experience.

[t-dogg]

Just comes down to the diet. Bulking, cutting. Thats what really determines if you grow and how much or if you cut and what bf% you reach.

Also keep in mind everyone responds differently to compounds.

[kmms]

yes, thank you. i'm asking the question specifically because in one of the many dozen threads i've read here while researching, another poster made a comment about "gaining 12lbs" in around 1 weeks time using this same aas protocol, not necessarily diet. the responses to that comment bordered on the dramatic. i may not be framing the question correctly, but am simply trying to determine from other experienced peoples perspective, what might be a low end expectation, a high end expectation as well as something comfortably in the middle.

i am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the aforementioned posters comment regarding his 12lbs gain in his first week would be on the high end considering the responses.

[t-dogg]

On a basic test run i would expect people to gain 10-15lbs normally for 1cycle. After pct time i would think if diet is proper and still lifting you should keep 70-80%.


12lbs in a week? Maybe with alot of food and dbol. Will you keep dbol gains, NO. Its just water weight.

[Mrcivil]

I know of people who are just genectic freaks and make ridiculous gains during there first cycle one person I know gained 13 kg in the first 2 weeks yes a bit of water but some good gains as well finished his first cycle gained 24 kg total for the cycle kept most of it he is just a freak who's body just loved the gear not many people respond that dramatically to steroids but some people do

[Shadowmaker]

my first real cycle was deca+dbol - i gained like 25-27lbs in 4 weeks and a few lbs next 4 weeks... nothing in the 8-12week...
after the cycle i kept some 22lbs imo.

anyway, the main factor ir genetics... some guys gain 10lbs a week on dbol alone(low dosage thou) and keep 90% of gains(especially if its their first cycle). some guys take 100mg dbol + 600mg deca + 1g of test to get the same gains and keep less after the cycle.

in this sport, the only thing that really matters is genetics.
some natural guys can be bigger than some steroid users. some guys eat cookies and candy when getting ready for a show, because they lose bodyfat just because : "i dont eat AS MUCH snickers as i want to" while i can cut all my carbs as low as 100g a day and do 2h of cardio, and dont have near as good results, lol...

its all in your genes
training is just a stimulus... diet makes you use your full potential(natural or roid) and roids just gives you more of what you already have(cant change genetics, if you suck, you will suck, just a lil bit less...).

[kmms]

ok then so theoretically speaking, gaining 4.4 pounds in the first 4 days would fit within a typical and acceptable range?

[Shadowmaker]

ok then so theoretically speaking, gaining 4.4 pounds in the first 4 days would fit within a typical and acceptable range?

there are lots of factors that need to be considered when talking about weight gaining... for example - food and water, and im not talking about eating, but just - how much are inside you now...
for example - before going to bed i weight sometimes even 8-10lbs heavier than i am in the morning... but the morning weight also depends on previous day, food i have eaten, sodium, water...
it is possible that tommorow you will weight less for example.
like - i can get some 6lbs just because im eating right and drinking water, and then - i could skip a few meals, sleep for 5 hours more than usual, wake up starving and i will weight so much less than i would in normal days.

anyway - 4.4 pounds in 4 days is a really good progress... it is alot - i will agree, but i would be happy about that... i think i have gained almost the same amount of weight in some cycles, especially the first ones.

p.s - you know that it can be mostly water, so its not to be considered as a real gain of weight cause when you will stop the cycle you will lose the water...

[songdog]

A lot of times when a guy gains 20 plus lbs on a 1st cycle.He was way under his nat limit.Most times these guys shouldve waited to build a base.So its relly hard to say wat one will gain.But if you cant gain on food you wont keep anything you gain on aas.

[gixxerboy1]

A lot of times when a guy gains 20 plus lbs on a 1st cycle.He was way under his nat limit.Most times these guys shouldve waited to build a base.So its relly hard to say wat one will gain.But if you cant gain on food you wont keep anything you gain on aas.

agree. It usually the smaller guy that shouldnt be using yet that make huge gains. I'm lucky if i gain 5lbs of lbm on a cycle.

[t-dogg]

agree. It usually the smaller guy that shouldnt be using yet that make huge gains. I'm lucky if i gain 5lbs of lbm on a cycle.

True story. Im not a big guy at all, but I think I pretty much hit my max weight naty a few years ago. I wasnt making any big gains and pretty much hit a wall. I doont agree with people saying you should always hit 200lbs naty.

Then again, Im not a body builder. I rather have lean gains then bloat up with water and such.

[kmms]

agree. It usually the smaller guy that shouldnt be using yet that make huge gains. I'm lucky if i gain 5lbs of lbm on a cycle.

understand the sentiment. at 42 however i've been training in the gym (weight training and mma) as well as competing professionally around the world in my sport for over 20 years now. pretty good idea of what my own personal limits are.

[gixxerboy1]

understand the sentiment. at 42 however i've been training in the gym (weight training and mma) as well as competing professionally around the world in my sport for over 20 years now. pretty good idea of what my own personal limits are.

i wasnt talking about you specifically. You were asking about gaining 4lbs in the first 4 days and someone else posted about gaining 13kg in 2 weeks.

What are your stats?

[kmms]

i wasnt talking about you specifically. You were asking about gaining 4lbs in the first 4 days and someone else posted about gaining 13kg in 2 weeks.

What are your stats?

5'11
74.4kg as of yesterday
no idea about BF% really, if it has any relevance my chest measures 41" and my waist is 28/29. can show a visible 8 pack when standing up, not seated and relaxed. my uneducated guess would be around 15%? have muscle definition everywhere from calves to traps.
goal is to reach around 82kg's with same or slightly lower BF%