First cycle questions: On trt

[--->>405<<---]

hey fellas.

1. i know first cycle should be test only but does this apply if u are on TRT? from what ive gathered a lot of TRT guys dont see extraordinary gains from a strait test cycle.

2. PCT: i know i just go back to TRT dose and dont PCT but will the same dietary measures apply. if i do a bulking cycle should i maintain same cals and/or increase for the length of time i was on even though it technically wont be PCT?

3. Tren: if the answer to question 1 is "NO" what do yall think about tren/test for first cycle? i realize its an advanced compound. from what i understand its also a very effective one. if itd be ok to run what dosage would be good to start in ur opinion?

4. if i did run the tren/test should i increase my TRT dosage or just keep it where its at? (160mg per week)

5. if the answer to the tren/test question is "NO" what would yall suggest i add? wanna make quality fairly lean gains.

im sure i have more but this ought to get it started.

thx

[ScotchGuard02]

Tren/Test is a awesome cycle. Builds really lean very vascular set of muscles. I got hit pretty hard by the prolactin from Tren usage. Affects you in the bedroom. You should be prepared. You just up your TRT dosage and run Tren along with your Test. It's pretty simple. Tren Ace gave me pretty bad cough. I get less cough with Tren E. I would recommend you don't run a huge Test/Tren on the first run. Tren is pretty harsh on your endo so you should run a lower dose, say 300mg/wk Tren 320mg/wk Test, and see how your body reacts to the first Test/Tren cycle. Just my .02.

[grilla]

Hey 405--

Here's my two cents...prob worth half that.

1. If you've never cycled, I'd still run the first cycle with test only. Probably best to see how your body responds to super
physiologic levels with test only before rendering the calculus more complex. I suspect the reason some don't see stellar gains
on a first TRT blast is because they've been running close to the top of the range for extended periods and may need
a bigger bump to see the type gains a non-TRTer sees on 500mg/wk. I have no studies to back this up...just a hypothesis based
on what I've read here and in the 'Anabolics' text.

2. Unless you're moving directly to cut, I'd not abruptly cut off the calories; however, I have no trouble gaining size and strength
but suck at cutting up so take that with a big grain of salt.

3. I plan to run a TRT/Tren blast in mid-October. I'm going to bump my standard TRT dose from 100 to 150mg/wk and run the
Tren at 150mg/wk. It is said to be five times as anabolic (and androgenic) as test, so I suspect, and hope, that it will be similar to running
750mg test/wk plus the TRT dose.

4. I've planned #3 based on Atomini's excellent thread; I think he may be running less than 160mg/wk right now while running 800mg/wk
of Tren. As I understand it, the Tren is so powerful (5x so) that it will overshadow the test where gains are concerned and is run primarily
for health/sexual/ancillary reasons while the Tren is the workhorse of the blast.

5. See #3.

Good luck!

If you run it in October, let me know, and we can compare notes.

grilla

[--->>405<<---]

cool thx for the response guys. pretty far apart on each

maybe it would be better to run test only at 500mg per week for a first cycle. the super physiological dose makes sense.

anyone else ??

[songdog]

I would still run the test only@ 500mg.Run a Ai like Adex @.25 eod to start.Leave the tren alone until you have more cycles under your belt.

[stpete]

I agree. Stick w/the test for now. Normally i would go along w/500mgs and it's a nice dose, but maybe a little higher since you're on TRT. 160x4=640. That's a nice round number. Plus, w/your experience in the gym and we all know about your knowledge on diet, i don't think that's too high for you.

Keep us posted on what you decide. Nice to see you over here!!

[--->>405<<---]

I would still run the test only@ 500mg.Run a Ai like Adex @.25 eod to start.Leave the tren alone until you have more cycles under your belt.

I agree. Stick w/the test for now. Normally i would go along w/500mgs and it's a nice dose, but maybe a little higher since you're on TRT. 160x4=640. That's a nice round number. Plus, w/your experience in the gym and we all know about your knowledge on diet, i don't think that's too high for you.

Keep us posted on what you decide. Nice to see you over here!!

thx guys.. 3 out of 4 for test only IMO = test only

heres what im thinking:

starting 8 week cut monday (8weeks): 9/10/12 - 11/4/12

maintenance (3weeks): 11/5/12 - 11/25/12

bulking cycle (10weeks): 11/26/12 - 2/3/13

time off before cut to establish gains (8 weeks): 2/4/13 - 3/31/13

cut (12weeks): 4/1/13 - 6/23/13

prime time to finish cut

not that i plan ahead

[LT75]

Just out of curiosity, what is your TRT dose? I was thinking about doing the same. Even after 15 weeks my T level is only around 500. Granted I started at 140, but I want to get higher. My doc is taking the slow boat to china approach. Is +325 in 15 weeks good?

[--->>405<<---]

Just out of curiosity, what is your TRT dose? I was thinking about doing the same. Even after 15 weeks my T level is only around 500. Granted I started at 140, but I want to get higher. My doc is taking the slow boat to china approach. Is +325 in 15 weeks good?

TRT dose: 160mg per week (80mg every 3.5days)
HCG: 375iU day before each test inject
AI: anastrozole 1mg day after each test inject

last blood work free and total test results:

total test: 1334ng/dL (348 - 1197)

free test: 38.2pg/mL (8.7 - 25.6)

[AXx]

TRT dose: 160mg per week (80mg every 3.5days)
HCG: 375iU day before each test inject
AI: anastrozole 1mg day after each test inject

last blood work free and total test results:

total test: 1334ng/dL (348 - 1197)

free test: 38.2pg/mL (8.7 - 25.6)

Dang boy!!! That's just off TRT?? Awesome. What were they before??

[--->>405<<---]

Dang boy!!! That's just off TRT?? Awesome. What were they before??

before:

total test: 349(348 - 1197)

free test: 7.3 (8.7 - 25.6)

[AXx]

Cool, you've been on for a year now? Right?

[--->>405<<---]

10 months..

[Lunk1]

hey fellas.

1. i know first cycle should be test only but does this apply if u are on TRT? from what ive gathered a lot of TRT guys dont see extraordinary gains from a strait test cycle.2. PCT: i know i just go back to TRT dose and dont PCT but will the same dietary measures apply. if i do a bulking cycle should i maintain same cals and/or increase for the length of time i was on even though it technically wont be PCT?

3. Tren: if the answer to question 1 is "NO" what do yall think about tren/test for first cycle? i realize its an advanced compound. from what i understand its also a very effective one. if itd be ok to run what dosage would be good to start in ur opinion?

4. if i did run the tren/test should i increase my TRT dosage or just keep it where its at? (160mg per week)

5. if the answer to the tren/test question is "NO" what would yall suggest i add? wanna make quality fairly lean gains.

im sure i have more but this ought to get it started.

thx

Welcome to the dark side 405

1) You could see great gains from an increase in your test dosage. 500-750 mg per week would no doubt yield great gains!

2)You should know the answer too this. If I am reading the question right then yes an increase in calories will still be needed to bulk. Steroids do not bulk or cut diet dose. Choice of compound can help determine the look of the muscle based on water retention and such.

3)Since you have been on test for trt I would not consider this your "first" cycle although the increase in test may be all that you want to try the 1st go round. I will add this. You are not the typical 18-25 yo kid coming in here with there head and rectum stuck together so I would feel much better about recommending tren to you than most given your work maturity. If you were to consider tren I would start at 75 mg per day with your test at 100-150 per day.

4) This is debatable. There are many different ways to skin a cat. I have said before that I have run test/tren cycle with the test higher, the test equal to and the test lower. I have bought in to the theory of running tren higher and running test at the trt dosage and allowing the tren to do it's thing as there are only so many receptors available and tren is the stronger of the 2 compounds. If this is your chosen route then a dose of tren at 400-500mg per week while keeping your trt dose of 160mg per week would be fantastic.
As far as the time to run? Depends on the ester obviously.

[--->>405<<---]

Welcome to the dark side 405

1) You could see great gains from an increase in your test dosage. 500-750 mg per week would no doubt yield great gains! GOOD DEAL! great gains is what im lookn for!

2)You should know the answer too this. If I am reading the question right then yes an increase in calories will still be needed to bulk. Steroids do not bulk or cut diet dose. Choice of compound can help determine the look of the muscle based on water retention and such.
i wasnt askn if i needed to increase cals to bulk. i was asking if i needed to increase and/or maintain cals during what would have been my PCT? since im on TRT i dont need PCT but guys who arent on TRT when they PCT have to maintain/increase cals in order to preserve gains during recovery from cycle. i am wondering if this applies to me?

3)Since you have been on test for trt I would not consider this your "first" cycle although the increase in test may be all that you want to try the 1st go round. I will add this. You are not the typical 18-25 yo kid coming in here with there head and rectum stuck together so I would feel much better about recommending tren to you than most given your work maturity. If you were to consider tren I would start at 75 mg per day with your test at 100-150 per day.
thank goodness this no longer applies to me!


4) This is debatable. There are many different ways to skin a cat. I have said before that I have run test/tren cycle with the test higher, the test equal to and the test lower. I have bought in to the theory of running tren higher and running test at the trt dosage and allowing the tren to do it's thing as there are only so many receptors available and tren is the stronger of the 2 compounds. If this is your chosen route then a dose of tren at 400-500mg per week while keeping your trt dose of 160mg per week would be fantastic.
As far as the time to run? Depends on the ester obviously.

not sure i understand what u mean by this? ester = shot frequency

and thx for the response

[Lunk1]

not sure i understand what u mean by this? ester = shot frequency

and thx for the response

Ester =shot frequency AND time it takes to "kick in" (by kick in I mean the time before you start to typicaly "feel" results. In all actuality it's in your blood stream very quickly).

My standard first cycle advise is 8 weeks on for short ester
12 weeks on for longer esters

[--->>405<<---]

ive heard test cyp is not good to use for cycles and dont see anyone really mentioning it. is there a reason for this?

test prop id have to do eod which leaves test e.

not sure whether id rather deal with potential for undesirable sides lingering due to longer ester or having to inject eod..

decisions decisions

[Lunk1]

ive heard test cyp is not good to use for cycles and dont see anyone really mentioning it. is there a reason for this?

test prop id have to do eod which leaves test e.

not sure whether id rather deal with potential for undesirable sides lingering due to longer ester or having to inject eod..

decisions decisions

Not enough diff. between cyp and E to cause me to go away from E imo. What are you using for your trt? If it's E and you decide to stick with test only cycle then just up the dose. If you decide to give tren a go then I would stick with tren A and test prop just to keep it simple. The eod shots are not that bad! I kinda miss em (but I'm an odd duck).

[kelkel]

405 whatever you choose just stay on top of you E. You seriously don't need to go through all that crap again!

[--->>405<<---]

Not enough diff. between cyp and E to cause me to go away from E imo. What are you using for your trt? If it's E and you decide to stick with test only cycle then just up the dose. If you decide to give tren a go then I would stick with tren A and test prop just to keep it simple. The eod shots are not that bad! I kinda miss em (but I'm an odd duck).

yeh i have had a bad run with self injects into the quad using a 5/8" 25g

after i aspirate and inject the test its like real quik a lot of pressure builds up very quik and it hurts so bad i have to pull the needle out. this can be accompanied with a fair amt of blood but not always. dont know if i keep hitting nerves or what! i used to love giving myself shots but now i flinch when i go to push the test in. sucks! so i have my wife inject me in the delt. someone told me they thought my needle mite be too short for a quad? i have very little fat on my leg so im sure it gets into the muscle but maybe not deep enuff?

currently on cyp but ive never heard of anyone on here or people i know using cyp for cycles and wondered why that was?

405 whatever you choose just stay on top of you E. You seriously don't need to go through all that crap again!

ur rite kel! will prob have to get bloodwork done somewhere at least for E2. (thats another issue that has to be resolved) but it is still a little way out..

[Lunk1]

yeh i have had a bad run with self injects into the quad using a 5/8" 25g after i aspirate and inject the test its like real quik a lot of pressure builds up very quik and it hurts so bad i have to pull the needle out. this can be accompanied with a fair amt of blood but not always. dont know if i keep hitting nerves or what! i used to love giving myself shots but now i flinch when i go to push the test in. sucks! so i have my wife inject me in the delt. someone told me they thought my needle mite be too short for a quad? i have very little fat on my leg so im sure it gets into the muscle but maybe not deep enuff?

currently on cyp but ive never heard of anyone on here or people i know using cyp for cycles and wondered why that was?





ur rite kel! will prob have to get bloodwork done somewhere at least for E2. (thats another issue that has to be resolved) but it is still a little way out..

Quads are my fav.but you def have some nerves in there that you hit sometimes...I just back out and hit another location. I agree 5/8 is short. You may not be getting gear in deep enough. I would go 1 inch and sink it. Can you describe in detail your quad injects. I come at mine anywhere from 6" from knee to bout 6" below the hip and at a slight angle. Be sure the muscle is relaxed.

[--->>405<<---]

Quads are my fav.but you def have some nerves in there that you hit sometimes...I just back out and hit another location. I agree 5/8 is short. You may not be getting gear in deep enough. I would go 1 inch and sink it. Can you describe in detail your quad injects. I come at mine anywhere from 6" from knee to bout 6" below the hip and at a slight angle. Be sure the muscle is relaxed.

bout the same as u. i watched that 60's 70's hilarious military video on u tube and went by what that guy said. hand breadth above knee and same below groin.

pretty much the middle third side to side.. usually do it sitting down with leg extended out in front of me on the side of my big tub in my bathroom. pinch a good hunk of tissue and pop the needle in, aspirate and then push in (and hope it doesnt hurt like hell anymmore LOL>>)

sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt but it has hurt so bad enuff that i expect it to now. ive had to make attempts to inject 3 times before. twice in one leg and once in the other.

[warmouth]

It is awesome to see you over here! A super smart and mature guy is a nice change of pace from what has been in here lately. Make sure to keep us posted and informed. Good luck!

[Lunk1]

bout the same as u. i watched that 60's 70's hilarious military video on u tube and went by what that guy said. hand breadth above knee and same below groin.

pretty much the middle third side to side.. usually do it sitting down with leg extended out in front of me on the side of my big tub in my bathroom. pinch a good hunk of tissue and pop the needle in, aspirate and then push in (and hope it doesnt hurt like hell anymmore LOL>>)

sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt but it has hurt so bad enuff that i expect it to now. ive had to make attempts to inject 3 times before. twice in one leg and once in the other.

I have had that too. Just last week I hit 1 leg 3 times and finally said F it and got the other 1 first try. Some go smooth as butter and some make me rethink my choices....for a few seconds lol. With no more test than you are running give a delt a try...pretty painless!

[SEOINAGE]

I'm getting ready to do the same thing 405, right now I'm kind of maintenance/losing fat if anything, but I have a few thyroid things to deal with before I blast, just haven't had time to get in for the blood work, I should have just done it last week, but won't be able to for a couple more. That and figure out if this ai is giving me grief. Then it's blasting away. I'm already on 200 mg, but want to do test only, total was something like 900 and free I think low 30s two days after inject. So I almost want to start with 600 mg just because my levels don't get as high as others with similar levels of test, but I dunno yet. I still need some tricks on how to get more test from the pharmacy though, call doc and get script to another pharm? This pharm won't release more than what my script calls for even though my script has enough refills and based on expiration date its one vial a month, they still won't dispense it to me cause im 200 mg a week.

[--->>405<<---]

It is awesome to see you over here! A super smart and mature guy is a nice change of pace from what has been in here lately. Make sure to keep us posted and informed. Good luck!

thx for the kind words man! will do!

I have had that too. Just last week I hit 1 leg 3 times and finally said F it and got the other 1 first try. Some go smooth as butter and some make me rethink my choices....for a few seconds lol. With no more test than you are running give a delt a try...pretty painless!

glad to see im not the only one.. although im not taking pleasure in ur pain! LOL..

I'm getting ready to do the same thing 405, right now I'm kind of maintenance/losing fat if anything, but I have a few thyroid things to deal with before I blast, just haven't had time to get in for the blood work, I should have just done it last week, but won't be able to for a couple more. That and figure out if this ai is giving me grief. Then it's blasting away. I'm already on 200 mg, but want to do test only, total was something like 900 and free I think low 30s two days after inject. So I almost want to start with 600 mg just because my levels don't get as high as others with similar levels of test, but I dunno yet. I still need some tricks on how to get more test from the pharmacy though, call doc and get script to another pharm? This pharm won't release more than what my script calls for even though my script has enough refills and based on expiration date its one vial a month, they still won't dispense it to me cause im 200 mg a week.

yeh my doc put me on armour thyroid cuz he said i wasnt "optimal" and i woke up in the middle of the night with a racing pounding heart! be careful.. that is not fun...

not sure about the script thing. i use a compounding pharmacy and CVS (which SUX!! BTW) and they keep a tight grip on that stuff!