Best Test Prop and Tren Ace Cutting Cycle!

[thebigkid]

Hey guys, I'm planning on starting a cutting cycle in about a month and I wanted some opinions on it. Let me know if there's any way I can improve it. Also this is my second time taking tren so I'm not new to it.
I'm going to be carbs cycling throughout most of the cycle eating atleast 2000 calories a day mostly from protein. I'll be lifting 6 days a week and doing cardio 6 days a week as well. 3 days of high intensity cardio, and 3 days of long distance cardio.

Male
26 years old
190 pounds
6'00"
About 18% bf


Week 1-4: Monday : 250mg prop

Thursday: 250mg prop

Weeks 5-6

Monday: 150mg prop + 70mg tren

Wednesday: 150 mg prop+ 70 mg tren

Friday: 150 mg prop + 70 mg tren

Weeks 7-8 Monday: 100mg prop + 80mg tren

Wednesday: 100 mg prop+ 80 mg tren

Friday: 100 mg prop + 80 mg tren

Week 9: Monday: 100mg prop + 85mg tren

Wednesday: 100mg prop + 85mg tren

Friday: 100mg prop + 85mg tren

Sunday: 100mg prop + 85 mg tren

Week 10: Tuesday: 200mg prop

Friday: 250mg prop

Nolvadex 10mg ED

Week 11-12 starting Tuesday 50 mg Clomid ED


Daily:

Releve. for joints

Optimum opti-men multi vitamin

.5mg letro to prevent gyno

Let me know what you guys think!

[songdog]

The cycle looks like crap bro.Dont ramp your doses thats old school.And if you have real tren you wont be doing any long distance cardio.Drop the letro and use Adex ,25 eod.Letro is to strong and you really need to work on your diet.6' only 190 going on 2nd cycle? I think you can trim down without aas.

[thebigkid]

I'll change my doses ill keep them the same. And whats wrong with long distance cardio. Ill look into the adex as well.

[stpete]

The prop and tren need to be ran EOD at least. And correct EOD is m-w-f-sun-tues-thur-sat, etc,etc. And that's from start to end. Agree w/songdog on the ramping and adex. And need to check that diet before anything. Your PCT is inadequate as well. Hit the PCT Forum to get this ironed out and the Nutrition Section.

A lot of people's cardio suffers while using tren. Myself included.

[thebigkid]

If I run it EOD what do you reccomend the dosage fo be? And my diet has been clean and consists of mainly protein, and it will rem
ain the same during my cycle

I'll definetely run adex instead of letro.

[warmouth]

Have you every cycled before? Iwould research compounds alot more before usage is engaged. Good luck!

[27300man]

If I run it EOD what do you reccomend the dosage fo be? And my diet has been clean and consists of mainly protein, and it will rem
ain the same during my cycle

I'll definetely run adex instead of letro.

I'm on 100testP + 75trenA + .5amiridex eod

[thebigkid]

Sounds good I'm probably gonna go with that as well

[thebigkid]

Have you every cycled before? Iwould research compounds alot more before usage is engaged. Good luck!

Yeah this is gonna be my third cycle, and thanks!

[Lunk1]

You are 6' 190lbs @ 18% BF....I am 6' 240ish @ 18% BF. It would seem diet is your issue not what cycle to run,.

[measuretwicecutonce]

yes same dosages thru out. a few days of prop after u finish tren is a good idea. u never want to stop all compounds at once.

[songdog]

Yeah you should weigh more than that!

[Lunk1]

I'm on 100testP + 75trenA + .5amiridex eod

This is a really nice first tren cycle. How are your gains?????

[Metalject]

Why should he weigh more than that? Maybe he doesn't want to be huge. Not everyone uses steroids to be huge, which is a concept a lot of guys on message boards tend to have a hard time understanding. Maybe he just wants to take what he has and make it better. And yes, I realize he could cut down without using steroids, this is obvious, but his physique will look a whole let better in regards to the end result with steroids. No chance on earth it won't.

As for long distance cardio and the use of Tren, yes it can hinder cardiovascular endurance but this is often highly overstated. The issue of individual response is huge here. If you're in relatively good cardiovascular shape, more than likely you shouldn't have much of an issue. However, some guys will, but again some guys won't. When I prepped for bodybuilding I always used a lot of Tren and cardio sessions were easily 60min twice a day...I had no issues at all. I had one year where I got too fat in the off-season and ended up having to do nearly 3hrs of cardio a day for a month. I was using 150mg of Tren-a per day and had zero issues. Anyway, the overall point is that it affects everyone differently.

As for your cycle, I think you're overcomplicating this quite a bit. A ten wk plan using the compounds you've chosen for your desired purpose based on this being your first Tren use...I'd go with something like this:

WK 1-10 Test-p 100-150mg/eod
WK 5-10 Tren-a 50-75mg/eod

I doubt you'll need letro for this cycle. Letro is as others have said a very strong AI. It's normally only needed in extreme cycles, or for the end of a contest prep plan or to reverse early gyno symptoms. I actually think there's a good chance you could get by without an AI in this cycle. Too many people rely on AI's far more than they should. People often talk about playing it safe during a cycle and that's great but AI's can be one of the most damaging things you can use if you're not careful, and they're not always needed. A low dose of Nolvdex throughout your cycle will more than likely suffice. Of course, you can keep an AI on hand should you need it. As for your PCT, you will need a bit more than this. There are some good PCT links here. I do, however, think you could get by with a 4-5wk plan of one SERM and HCG at the front or moderate dose of Clomid for a few wks along with Nolvadex and then extending the Nolva out another wk or two.

[Lunk1]

Why should he weigh more than that? Maybe he doesn't want to be huge. Not everyone uses steroids to be huge, which is a concept a lot of guys on message boards tend to have a hard time understanding. Maybe he just wants to take what he has and make it better. And yes, I realize he could cut down without using steroids, this is obvious, but his physique will look a whole let better in regards to the end result with steroids. No chance on earth it won't.

As for long distance cardio and the use of Tren, yes it can hinder cardiovascular endurance but this is often highly overstated. The issue of individual response is huge here. If you're in relatively good cardiovascular shape, more than likely you shouldn't have much of an issue. However, some guys will, but again some guys won't. When I prepped for bodybuilding I always used a lot of Tren and cardio sessions were easily 60min twice a day...I had no issues at all. I had one year where I got too fat in the off-season and ended up having to do nearly 3hrs of cardio a day for a month. I was using 150mg of Tren-a per day and had zero issues. Anyway, the overall point is that it affects everyone differently.

As for your cycle, I think you're overcomplicating this quite a bit. A ten wk plan using the compounds you've chosen for your desired purpose based on this being your first Tren use...I'd go with something like this:

WK 1-10 Test-p 100-150mg/eod
WK 5-10 Tren-a 50-75mg/eod

I doubt you'll need letro for this cycle. Letro is as others have said a very strong AI. It's normally only needed in extreme cycles, or for the end of a contest prep plan or to reverse early gyno symptoms. I actually think there's a good chance you could get by without an AI in this cycle. Too many people rely on AI's far more than they should. People often talk about playing it safe during a cycle and that's great but AI's can be one of the most damaging things you can use if you're not careful, and they're not always needed. A low dose of Nolvdex throughout your cycle will more than likely suffice. Of course, you can keep an AI on hand should you need it. As for your PCT, you will need a bit more than this. There are some good PCT links here. I do, however, think you could get by with a 4-5wk plan of one SERM and HCG at the front or moderate dose of Clomid for a few wks along with Nolvadex and then extending the Nolva out another wk or two.

I can't speak for Sondog but the point I was making was not that he needs to weigh more it.s that I have 50lbs on him and we are the same BF% Something does not add up.

[measuretwicecutonce]

I'm on 100testP + 75trenA + .5amiridex eod

these are weekly dosages?

[Metalject]

I can't speak for Sondog but the point I was making was not that he needs to weigh more it.s that I have 50lbs on him and we are the same BF% Something does not add up.

I understand what you're saying. Still, I'm not a big fan of saying a certain plan will produce the same results for everyone. You take two guys who are the same age, height and weight and put them on the same diet and training program and the odds are strong that the end result will not be the same for both individuals. There are just too many variables even if all of those other things are the same.

[thebigkid]

Why should he weigh more than that? Maybe he doesn't want to be huge. Not everyone uses steroids to be huge, which is a concept a lot of guys on message boards tend to have a hard time understanding. Maybe he just wants to take what he has and make it better. And yes, I realize he could cut down without using steroids, this is obvious, but his physique will look a whole let better in regards to the end result with steroids. No chance on earth it won't.

As for long distance cardio and the use of Tren, yes it can hinder cardiovascular endurance but this is often highly overstated. The issue of individual response is huge here. If you're in relatively good cardiovascular shape, more than likely you shouldn't have much of an issue. However, some guys will, but again some guys won't. When I prepped for bodybuilding I always used a lot of Tren and cardio sessions were easily 60min twice a day...I had no issues at all. I had one year where I got too fat in the off-season and ended up having to do nearly 3hrs of cardio a day for a month. I was using 150mg of Tren-a per day and had zero issues. Anyway, the overall point is that it affects everyone differently.

As for your cycle, I think you're overcomplicating this quite a bit. A ten wk plan using the compounds you've chosen for your desired purpose based on this being your first Tren use...I'd go with something like this:

WK 1-10 Test-p 100-150mg/eod
WK 5-10 Tren-a 50-75mg/eod

I doubt you'll need letro for this cycle. Letro is as others have said a very strong AI. It's normally only needed in extreme cycles, or for the end of a contest prep plan or to reverse early gyno symptoms. I actually think there's a good chance you could get by without an AI in this cycle. Too many people rely on AI's far more than they should. People often talk about playing it safe during a cycle and that's great but AI's can be one of the most damaging things you can use if you're not careful, and they're not always needed. A low dose of Nolvdex throughout your cycle will more than likely suffice. Of course, you can keep an AI on hand should you need it. As for your PCT, you will need a bit more than this. There are some good PCT links here. I do, however, think you could get by with a 4-5wk plan of one SERM and HCG at the front or moderate dose of Clomid for a few wks along with Nolvadex and then extending the Nolva out another wk or two.

Finally someone who knows a lot about what they're talking about.

Im going to change my doses to: Weeks 1-10: 150mg test prop eod Weeks 5-9: 70mg tren ace eod. ill drop the letro and keep some adex just incase I need to start using it.

This will be my second time using tren, the first time i had no problem with doing long distance cardio therefore there should be a problem this time either. Also i will definetely be changing up my PCT, I just need to research it a little more.

[Lunk1]

Finally someone who knows a lot about what they're talking about.

Im going to change my doses to: Weeks 1-10: 150mg test prop eod Weeks 5-9: 70mg tren ace eod. ill drop the letro and keep some adex just incase I need to start using it.

This will be my second time using tren, the first time i had no problem with doing long distance cardio therefore there should be a problem this time either. Also i will definetely be changing up my PCT, I just need to research it a little more.

Metel DOES know plenty...you on the other hand should do some reading. This states 4 weeks of tren use which is NOT long enough. The prefered amount of time for the short ester compounds is 8-10 weeks. If this is your plan you will be wasting the tren and stopping JUST as it's really strarting to do it's job.
Week 1-10 test prop 150 mg eod
Week 1-8 tren ace 50-75 mg eod (I like to see first time tren users start out low and make sure the sides from tren are tolerable and then bump it after a cpl weeks if all is well)

[Lunk1]

these are weekly dosages?

Notice the EOD at the end? This is his eod dose!

[Lunk1]

Why should he weigh more than that? Maybe he doesn't want to be huge. Not everyone uses steroids to be huge, which is a concept a lot of guys on message boards tend to have a hard time understanding. Maybe he just wants to take what he has and make it better. And yes, I realize he could cut down without using steroids, this is obvious, but his physique will look a whole let better in regards to the end result with steroids. No chance on earth it won't.

As for long distance cardio and the use of Tren, yes it can hinder cardiovascular endurance but this is often highly overstated. The issue of individual response is huge here. If you're in relatively good cardiovascular shape, more than likely you shouldn't have much of an issue. However, some guys will, but again some guys won't. When I prepped for bodybuilding I always used a lot of Tren and cardio sessions were easily 60min twice a day...I had no issues at all. I had one year where I got too fat in the off-season and ended up having to do nearly 3hrs of cardio a day for a month. I was using 150mg of Tren-a per day and had zero issues. Anyway, the overall point is that it affects everyone differently.

As for your cycle, I think you're overcomplicating this quite a bit. A ten wk plan using the compounds you've chosen for your desired purpose based on this being your first Tren use...I'd go with something like this:

WK 1-10 Test-p 100-150mg/eod
WK 5-10 Tren-a 50-75mg/eod

I doubt you'll need letro for this cycle. Letro is as others have said a very strong AI. It's normally only needed in extreme cycles, or for the end of a contest prep plan or to reverse early gyno symptoms. I actually think there's a good chance you could get by without an AI in this cycle. Too many people rely on AI's far more than they should. People often talk about playing it safe during a cycle and that's great but AI's can be one of the most damaging things you can use if you're not careful, and they're not always needed. A low dose of Nolvdex throughout your cycle will more than likely suffice. Of course, you can keep an AI on hand should you need it. As for your PCT, you will need a bit more than this. There are some good PCT links here. I do, however, think you could get by with a 4-5wk plan of one SERM and HCG at the front or moderate dose of Clomid for a few wks along with Nolvadex and then extending the Nolva out another wk or two.

Metel...this is really NOT the best advise IMO. If youy are running a test/tren short ester cycle there is NO sense in waiting to start the tren. Let it satrt working at the front, stop it earlier (say a week or 2) to help with shut down. Not to mention that this should be run for a minimum of 8 weeks not 5. Why miss out on some of the best gains that can be made in those last 3 weeks??

[songdog]

I can't speak for Sondog but the point I was making was not that he needs to weigh more it.s that I have 50lbs on him and we are the same BF% Something does not add up.

I agree with Lunk.And I dont promote the use of aas as a diet aid.And you are the only one I know of who can do cardio like that on REAL tren.

[MickeyKnox]

i was pretty excited to see the title of this thread as this is exactly my next cycle (end with var) but then became deflated when i read it.

totally agree with Pete on this one.

also want to include that the op's cycle is a cutting cycle. so although i see Metal's point on not all guys wanting to be huge, i agree with Lunk on the cycle. why would you want to start tren 5wks in? i don't understand the rationale on that?

[Metalject]

Metel...this is really NOT the best advise IMO. If youy are running a test/tren short ester cycle there is NO sense in waiting to start the tren. Let it satrt working at the front, stop it earlier (say a week or 2) to help with shut down. Not to mention that this should be run for a minimum of 8 weeks not 5. Why miss out on some of the best gains that can be made in those last 3 weeks??

Actually I put Tren in there for six weeks, not five. You can make some decent progress with six weeks with Tren, sure eight or so would be even better but I'll generally tell people to keep it around six or so if they've never used Tren before...just keep it simple. Obviously though I misunderstood the OP as he's used Tren before.

IMO, if you're running a cutting plan, however long it may be it's always best to have things like Tren in the plan on the back half of the cycle. You can diet with just test and that will be enough to protect you from losing muscle, but once you're leaner add in the Tren and the visual results will be better...the leaner you are once you start it the better it will be. Of course, this is all assuming the individual is not using Tren the entire time, which in that case it wouldn't matter.

[Metalject]

I agree with Lunk.And I dont promote the use of aas as a diet aid.And you are the only one I know of who can do cardio like that on REAL tren.

Any competitive bodybuilder that has to do a lot of cardio for his prep, which is most will be doing so while he's using Tren.

[Lunk1]

Actually I put Tren in there for six weeks, not five. You can make some decent progress with six weeks with Tren, sure eight or so would be even better but I'll generally tell people to keep it around six or so if they've never used Tren before...just keep it simple. Obviously though I misunderstood the OP as he's used Tren before.

IMO, if you're running a cutting plan, however long it may be it's always best to have things like Tren in the plan on the back half of the cycle. You can diet with just test and that will be enough to protect you from losing muscle, but once you're leaner add in the Tren and the visual results will be better...the leaner you are once you start it the better it will be. Of course, this is all assuming the individual is not using Tren the entire time, which in that case it wouldn't matter.

I guess I don't see the logic in putting tren in late....put it in as THE steroid your taking advantage of through your whole cycle. The test is only there to protect labido shut down. The tren is going to carry the lions share of the work and how is 6 weeks in any way more simple that 8 weeks? It's just 2 more weeks of the same! @ more weeks of gaining that you could lose out on by stopping too short.

[27300man]

This is a really nice first tren cycle. How are your gains?????

I'm just finishing my first week on cycle but I feel strength unless it's just placebo. I'm hoping for the best expecting the worst.

[Lunk1]

I'm just finishing my first week on cycle but I feel strength unless it's just placebo. I'm hoping for the best expecting the worst.

Most likely placebo...usually takes 7-10 days for me before I notice things like labido increase.

[thebigkid]

Metel DOES know plenty...you on the other hand should do some reading. This states 4 weeks of tren use which is NOT long enough. The prefered amount of time for the short ester compounds is 8-10 weeks. If this is your plan you will be wasting the tren and stopping JUST as it's really strarting to do it's job.
Week 1-10 test prop 150 mg eod
Week 1-8 tren ace 50-75 mg eod (I like to see first time tren users start out low and make sure the sides from tren are tolerable and then bump it after a cpl weeks if all is well)

Yeah i agree with you, i will be running tren for 8 weeks since its my second time and i know my body can handle it. Just not sure if I want to start out with it, might wait till the start of the 3rd week to began tren.

[thebigkid]

Actually I put Tren in there for six weeks, not five. You can make some decent progress with six weeks with Tren, sure eight or so would be even better but I'll generally tell people to keep it around six or so if they've never used Tren before...just keep it simple. Obviously though I misunderstood the OP as he's used Tren before.

IMO, if you're running a cutting plan, however long it may be it's always best to have things like Tren in the plan on the back half of the cycle. You can diet with just test and that will be enough to protect you from losing muscle, but once you're leaner add in the Tren and the visual results will be better...the leaner you are once you start it the better it will be. Of course, this is all assuming the individual is not using Tren the entire time, which in that case it wouldn't matter.

This is exactly why i would like to take test before, and then start tren. i Would like to get as lean as i can off of just test and then add in the tren and get even leaner.

[MickeyKnox]

you don't get lean off of test, you get lean off your diet.

do what you want and what works for you bro, but running test at small dose and tren, standard dose, together has my vote.

[thebigkid]

you don't get lean off of test, you get lean off your diet.

do what you want and what works for you bro, but running test at small dose and tren, standard dose, together has my vote.

No doubt about it that i will be worrying about my diet the most, but the AAS definitely plays a role in it. And I'll be using those doses. Preciate your input bro!

[MickeyKnox]

youre welcome. good luck.

[JohnnyVegas]

Why should he weigh more than that? Maybe he doesn't want to be huge. Not everyone uses steroids to be huge, which is a concept a lot of guys on message boards tend to have a hard time understanding.

I find this comment interesting. I normally would say things similar to the guys above because I don't know why anyone would break the law, spend the money, stick themselves, tolerate side effects and possibly put their health at risk in an attempt to NOT get big.

[ironbeck]

I just don't get it? Why do ppl act like they know what they are doing....obviously not by the questions they ask(newbie) after proclaiming there mass experience with AAS in order to ask questions to get the knowledge they need? Why lie? just ask what the **** you need answers with?
THis happens multiple times every day...

[Metalject]

you don't get lean off of test, you get lean off your diet.

do what you want and what works for you bro, but running test at small dose and tren, standard dose, together has my vote.

Higher testosterone levels will promote a strong metabolic rate. More importantly, the most important thing of all, testosterone will protect your muscle tissue. I don't care how special someone believes they are or how perfect their diet is, if you diet without steroids you will lose some muscle mass. Most guys probably lose a little bit even with steroids but one of the main points of a cutting cycle is to protect that mass.

[Metalject]

I guess I don't see the logic in putting tren in late....put it in as THE steroid your taking advantage of through your whole cycle. The test is only there to protect labido shut down. The tren is going to carry the lions share of the work and how is 6 weeks in any way more simple that 8 weeks? It's just 2 more weeks of the same! @ more weeks of gaining that you could lose out on by stopping too short.

Actually the test is there for more than guarding against suppression. If that's all he was worried about he could get by with half that dose, maybe less. You could replace testosterone with a dose of 25-50mg/eod...some physicians who prescribe Test-P for TRT purposes actually give prescribe that dose only 2-3x per wk.

You're right, there's not a big difference in 6-8wks...I was just trying to keep it simple based on how he laid things out. He could probably run the Tren the entire 10wks he has set aside and be just fine, but if he were only going to use it for part of the cycle it just makes sense to use it once you're a little leaner. It doesn't make sense to diet with Tren then stop using Tren but then to keep dieting. The results from the Tren will simply be more pronounced once leaner. I don't know if I'm wording this right but hopefully so.

[MickeyKnox]

Higher testosterone levels will promote a strong metabolic rate. More importantly, the most important thing of all, testosterone will protect your muscle tissue. I don't care how special someone believes they are or how perfect their diet is, if you diet without steroids you will lose some muscle mass. Most guys probably lose a little bit even with steroids but one of the main points of a cutting cycle is to protect that mass.

i understand what youre getting at, but i don't believe that 250mg/wk prop would increase your metabolic rate significantly more than 100mg/wk.

100mg/wk is more than enough to run with tren side by side to produce intended results provided your diet is in check.

[MickeyKnox]

^^ edited to reflect OP's test values.

[Metalject]

i understand what youre getting at, but i don't believe that 250mg/wk prop would increase your metabolic rate significantly more than 100mg/wk.

100mg/wk is more than enough to run with tren side by side to produce intended results provided your diet is in check.

Just for clarification purposes, the way I laid it out he would be averaging 350-525mg/wk of Test-P depending on which route he decided to go...100mg/eod or 150mg/eod. Both options would significantly increase his testosterone levels...the latter obviously more so.