sus 250, deca 300. AI?

**Firepal** · 09-15-2012, 11:56 PM

I am taking sus 250 EOD and Deca 300 twice a week, Im running it for 12 weeks im only a week in so im just getting started. I have Clomid, nolvadex and HCG for my PCT not sure yet exactly how im gunna run it my budy was gunna tell me the details later but i read these forums alot so i have a lil idea. Anyways my question was should I be running an AI for this cycle? This is my first cycle (I know most members recomend a test only first cycle) Ive made my decision though. I asked my friend if I should be running an AI he told me only if i start getting some sides. But I read on this site alot that i should run AI during my cycle. im 24, 185, 5,9, been training since i was 15 been pretty serious about it since i was 19.

**lstbred** · 09-16-2012, 12:23 AM

I would run it from the start. I didnt at first and 7-8 weeks into it I started getting some little annoying sides, so I started then and all was good. I wont wait again.

**havanakid** · 09-16-2012, 04:31 AM

Sus 250 e.o.d is waaaay too much bro.Pin that twice weekly at most.Let me start you with that and hopefully the rest of the guys will continue with some sound advice.FYI Deca is a beast.Total annihilation of natural test production with its own sides and complications.I would save that for your next cycle but thats just my advice bud.

**songdog** · 09-16-2012, 06:18 AM

Yes you need a Ai like Adex@ .25 EOD to start.And you dont run HCG during pct.You run it up to pct.

**stpete** · 09-16-2012, 07:20 AM

Yes, run the AI and HCG like recommended. And you're doing too much for your first cycle imo.

Glad you came here to get things ironed out.

**fit2bOld** · 09-16-2012, 07:32 AM

" My buddy was gonna tell me the details later" This is a big problem taking gear with no clue, Song and Pete are spot on with their recommendations.

Way to much product for a first time. I would recommend you get your future questions answered here. Read the educational threads as well

**TOkidd** · 09-16-2012, 07:48 AM

You definitely need an AI. As songdog recommended, Arimidex is a great preventative of estrogen-related gyno at the dosage he suggested. You can always increase it if necessary.

Folllowing up on Havanakid's post, for your first cycle I think your doses are too high. You're taking almost 1 gram of test per week! What makes you think you need that much when just about everyone starts off with 500mg / week? Since you have no idea how test will affect you, starting off at such a high level will ensure that any side effects you experience will be severe. Not a good idea.

But the real problem IMO is with the deca , especially the dosage. Most people suggest a test-only cycle for first-timers because it's important to see how it affects you, what side effects you get and how severe they are. This is especially true of gyno, and seeing whether you are prone to estrogen-indiuced gyno. Then, when you do your next cycle, you can add a second compound knowing how test effects you so that if you experience new side effects, you know it's the other compound, not the test. This is a real concern when taking test and deca together because of the risk of progesterone-induced gyno from the deca. The arimidex will only help with this to a certain extent. But if you're prone to progesterone gyno, arimidex and other conventional AI's will not help you. But you don't know if you are prone to this type of gyno, or to regular estrogen-induced gyno, so if you start experiencing the syptoms of gyno, you won't know which compound is causing it, which means you won't know whether to just increase your Arimidex dose, or start taking something like caber. Big problem! Not only that, but you're taking Deca at 600mg / week, which is - again - a veteran dose, not a first-timer dose. So if you are prone to progesterone gyno, you are certain to experience it at this level. In fact, you are certain to experience all the negative side effects you may be prone to from both steroids at the doses you are taking. But you won't know which steroid is causing them, which will hamper your efforts to treat them.

I would suggest that you drop the deca and continue with the sustanon at 250mg twice weekly, but I know you probably won't do that. So at the very least, you need to drop those dosages to 500mg / week of sustanon, and 400mg / week of deca. I am currently taking this exact same cycle (my third), and my gains have been extraordinary. You will no doubt have the same excellent gains without the heavy sides you are sure to experience at the high doses you've chosen to take (I wonder how you decided on these doses?)
So drop your doses right away, get yourself some A-dex immediately, and start taking .25mg EOD as songdog advised. Then buy a bottle of vitamin B6 and start taking 100mg of it twice daily to help prevent progesterone gyno. You may also want to get some cabergoline in case you are prone to progesterone gyno, in which case the B6 may not be as effective in treating it (I've heard of people successfully treating progesterone gyno with B6 at 600mg / day divided into 3 doses, but I would go with something a little more tried and tested. However, for prevention, the B6 should be sufficient. Only reach for the caber if you start experiencing symptoms and the A-dex isn't helping).

I hope you listen to this advice, because besides the danger of side effects you simply don't NEED that much for a first cycle. So you are risking heavy side effects and all the complications I detailed above unnecessarily.

Hope this helps

**Firepal** · 09-16-2012, 12:53 PM

Really drop sus to 500 a week? These doses were recomended by two ppl that did this exact cycle with no issues. But Ive followed this sites advice before so I guess I should again. Where can i get Arimidex ? Should I ask my budy or order it? if i got deca 300 how much should i be doing twice a week to make 400? and with this HCG the bottle i got is all in japenese but its pretty small if im gunna start taking it now i dont think itd last a full 12 weeks so i probley need to get more? I cant remember where i read it but i read somthing about sus needs to be taken EOD? maybe im miss remembering. ill go buy some b6 today.

**havanakid** · 09-16-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by TOkidd

You definitely need an AI. As songdog recommended, Arimidex is a great preventative of estrogen-related gyno at the dosage he suggested. You can always increase it if necessary.

Folllowing up on Havanakid's post, for your first cycle I think your doses are too high. You're taking almost 1 gram of test per week! What makes you think you need that much when just about everyone starts off with 500mg / week? Since you have no idea how test will affect you, starting off at such a high level will ensure that any side effects you experience will be severe. Not a good idea.

But the real problem IMO is with the deca , especially the dosage. Most people suggest a test-only cycle for first-timers because it's important to see how it affects you, what side effects you get and how severe they are. This is especially true of gyno, and seeing whether you are prone to estrogen-indiuced gyno. Then, when you do your next cycle, you can add a second compound knowing how test effects you so that if you experience new side effects, you know it's the other compound, not the test. This is a real concern when taking test and deca together because of the risk of progesterone-induced gyno from the deca. The arimidex will only help with this to a certain extent. But if you're prone to progesterone gyno, arimidex and other conventional AI's will not help you. But you don't know if you are prone to this type of gyno, or to regular estrogen-induced gyno, so if you start experiencing the syptoms of gyno, you won't know which compound is causing it, which means you won't know whether to just increase your Arimidex dose, or start taking something like caber. Big problem! Not only that, but you're taking Deca at 600mg / week, which is - again - a veteran dose, not a first-timer dose. So if you are prone to progesterone gyno, you are certain to experience it at this level. In fact, you are certain to experience all the negative side effects you may be prone to from both steroids at the doses you are taking. But you won't know which steroid is causing them, which will hamper your efforts to treat them.

I would suggest that you drop the deca and continue with the sustanon at 250mg twice weekly, but I know you probably won't do that. So at the very least, you need to drop those dosages to 500mg / week of sustanon, and 400mg / week of deca. I am currently taking this exact same cycle (my third), and my gains have been extraordinary. You will no doubt have the same excellent gains without the heavy sides you are sure to experience at the high doses you've chosen to take (I wonder how you decided on these doses?)
So drop your doses right away, get yourself some A-dex immediately, and start taking .25mg EOD as songdog advised. Then buy a bottle of vitamin B6 and start taking 100mg of it twice daily to help prevent progesterone gyno. You may also want to get some cabergoline in case you are prone to progesterone gyno, in which case the B6 may not be as effective in treating it (I've heard of people successfully treating progesterone gyno with B6 at 600mg / day divided into 3 doses, but I would go with something a little more tried and tested. However, for prevention, the B6 should be sufficient. Only reach for the caber if you start experiencing symptoms and the A-dex isn't helping).

I hope you listen to this advice, because besides the danger of side effects you simply don't NEED that much for a first cycle. So you are risking heavy side effects and all the complications I detailed above unnecessarily.

Hope this helps

Exactamundo!!!

**havanakid** · 09-16-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Firepal

Really drop sus to 500 a week? These doses were recomended by two ppl that did this exact cycle with no issues. But Ive followed this sites advice before so I guess I should again. Where can i get Arimidex? Should I ask my budy or order it? if i got deca 300 how much should i be doing twice a week to make 400? and with this HCG the bottle i got is all in japenese but its pretty small if im gunna start taking it now i dont think itd last a full 12 weeks so i probley need to get more? I cant remember where i read it but i read somthing about sus needs to be taken EOD? maybe im miss remembering. ill go buy some b6 today.

If the deca dosage is 300mgs per 1 ml then just make it easy on yourself if you really insist on stacking the deca with the sust and just shoot the deca once a week at 300mgs and the sust twice weekly.Example Monday sus 250/deca 300 and on thursday sus 250....keep it simple and at a decent dosage.

**t-dogg** · 09-16-2012, 02:58 PM

Drop the deca and run the sust at 400-500mgs per week. Keep it simple first time out.

**Firepal** · 09-16-2012, 05:08 PM

hmmm I will drop my dosage to sust twice a week n deca 300 once a week i guess. is 300 a week worth it? whats the minimum deca dosage. ive gained 5 lbs in 6 days so far with what im doing but i know i defiently shouldent be around the maximum range of dosage on my first cycle. Can somone answer my question how much HCG do I need for a 12 week cycle like this? i have 1 bottle i wanna know if I need more cuz i wanna get it ASAP if i do. and my question about Arimidex do I get that online? or should i be getting it from my source?

**Firepal** · 09-16-2012, 05:16 PM

"Sustanon and why you shouldnt use it
Not all test was created equal. Test is Test is Test. As much as this is true we are speaking about raw test or de esterified test. We are not talking about ester bound test.

The purpose when injecting is to do so to keep blood plasma levels as stable and at peak for as long as possible, now we cannot do this with sustanon unless it is injected every other day. If I were to draw a graph on the time release of sustanon it would have Highs & Lows (Ups & Downs). Now the average newbie does not wish to inject on an every other day basis and he certainly doesnt wish to be using that much test for a first or second cycle either. In order to keep blood plasma levels stable and reach a peak as quickly as possible you would have to go about front loading. Again something that should not really be done with sustanon.

I have read sustanon causes less water retention, sustanon causes less chance of getting gyno and less sides overall. This is not true one bit.

250mgs of sust or 250mgs of enanthate ?

Enanthate contains more raw test than the mixture in sust.

Did I forget to mention the sust flu? The long build up of this? The long duration it takes to leave the body due to the decanoate ester?

Now before I start writing a book on this I want a serious discussion with all you sust lovers

Peace"

This is what I read about sus being ran EOD.

**t-dogg** · 09-16-2012, 05:33 PM

I write on this more when i get home of my experience with sust and other test forms.

**TOkidd** · 09-17-2012, 01:11 AM

I never really considered the problems others have mentioned about the OP's choice of test products. I've never used sust simply because it seems a little weird to me - all those esters releasing at different times means your body is never going to have a steady release into your blood. It's going to be characterized by spikes on account of that silly small-as* amount of prop they put in it, and then that long wait for the decanoate to clear at the end of your cycle. But anyways, it's what you got so you'll have to make do. In the future, pick a more sensible form of test like enanthate , cypionate , or propionate on its own. Sorry sust fans, it's just my feeling on the matter.

As for your questions about how to divide your dose of deca , the math is pretty simple - I also have a 300mg / ml concentration, and while I've chosen to go with 450mg / week, 400mg / week isn't hard to achieve. A 3ml hype is marked up plenty for you to draw 0.6ml twice a week pretty accurately, or simply 1.25ml once weekly to make it easier (decanoate has a long enough half-life that you can inject once weekly if you want). Or you could go with 300mg / week like others have suggested since this is your first go-round and still get plenty of gains from smaller dose.