Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    D Mc C's Avatar
    D Mc C is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    168

    cycle without TEST?

    2nd cycle at 20
    i will be starting my second cyle after my 20th birthday (this november). i have already done a deca \win cycle at which ended 1 week ago. my stats will be (in november) 5'4 aprox 165lbs at 11% bf. training for 3 years. i want to do a bulking cycle and would just like to know where to begin my research. i really want to stay away form test until i am 21 or 22. What is a good stack without test for me to begin my research. any opinions or comments (except about my age) are welcom
    Thanks bros!

  2. #2
    Epoc's Avatar
    Epoc is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    In a padded room
    Posts
    131
    Hold on, you want to do a bulking cycle without test?!? Test should be a building block to start from when making a cycle esp. with a bulking cycle.

  3. #3
    Chach's Avatar
    Chach is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    461
    bro, i would highly recomend that you do not do a cycle without test, epoc is right, and test should be the base for every cycle...and why not test, why do you wanna stay away from it till 21 or 22?

  4. #4
    kaoz&zen is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    94
    well, bulking can be successfully accomplished without test, but many will advise not to do it. And running test you will be alot happier with your results.
    Now i'm guessing that closure of growth plates is your main reason for not wanting to run test, correct? Now, i was led to believe that progesterone hormones (17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone?) will aslos cause growth plate closure, but I oculd be wrong. maybe you should look into this a little.

  5. #5
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    not where I want to be
    Posts
    6,697
    bro no offense but your logic is all wrong. and i know you dont want comments about your age but I cant resist.

    first off you started juicing too early. Then you did a deca /winny cycle which is yet another contradiction. Bulk or cut, choose 1. you cant have your cake and eat it too im afraid. Like Epoc said, bulking without test is not the wisest of choices. At your age it is very easy to screw up your hormones with AAS. If i were you, i wouldnt do another cycle until I had at least another 2 years of training naturally under my belt. Thats my advice. whether you heed it or not is your choice. Im not criticizing you I am meerly offering my thoughts.

    However, I fully support your research. By all means learn as much as you can now but hold off on the AAS. The search button is a great too, as are the educational forums. You may also wish to look into the drug profiles on the main page. This is a great place to start your research...good luck.

  6. #6
    D Mc C's Avatar
    D Mc C is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    168
    thanks for your info guys. my logic for no test is that because i have done only 1 cycle then i can still make good gains off of "weaker" steriods . When i can't make good gains off of non-test based AS then i can add test to make large gains again. i mean your first few times drinking you didn't pound a 40 of JD did you? You probably just a had a few beers. U see where im coming form? But this is just a theroy so tear it to pieces if im worng. thanks for your help. Back to the Educational forum for me!
    PS now i know you can't have your cake and eat it too
    more opinions are welcome!

  7. #7
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    not where I want to be
    Posts
    6,697
    well I believe your theory is incorrect. again no offense. Test is the building block of all muscle in your body. Its essential...its THE muscle builder. Ask around, you will be hard pressed to find a member on this board who openly advocates a cycle without test.

  8. #8
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Antarctica
    Posts
    4,394
    non-test based AS
    no such thing, they are all derived in some way. Look up the chem structures, youll notice all have the same 4 ringed members. Functional groups change their functionality.

  9. #9
    pjacobi34 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    9
    I think you can still get good gains without test. I've done 2 cycles of deca only. The first I gained about 15-20 lbs of lean muscle. The second cycle I gained about 12-15 lbs of lean muscle. I think I had great gains because of my diet and good workout habits. Everybody responds differently, so you have to find what works best for you. If you were going to do a deca cycle again, I would up the dose a little because your body gets used to it.

  10. #10
    Cock Diesel155's Avatar
    Cock Diesel155 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic
    Posts
    372
    If your gonna do another cycle I suggest running Test but at a low dose if you are weary. Run it around 250mgs a week.. Many bro's on here will strongly disagree with me on this, but I am running QV Enanthate right now at 250mgs/wk and am getting solid results. Of course my diet is on track which is the most important thing.. My next cycle is gonna be 500mgs/wk of Test, but this is my first and I wanted to run a lower dose. I am very glad I did.. So let us know on what you decide.. Also if you want to research on this try "low dose cycles" or look under "Bask8kace".. He has posted many times on low doses..

  11. #11
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,983
    I see no medical reason to run testosterone in every cycle. In fact, this is why anabolic -androgenic steroids are made... safer more anabolic alternatives to testosterone.

    There is no doubt that testosterone is a good mass builder but i don't think a rule should be testosterone in every cycle for most people. People over 35 years old would probably benefit the most from testosterone use in every cycle since they are on the downhill with their endogenous levels.

    There is one solid reason to always run testosterone and that is to help with sexual disfunction with large amounts of nandrolone . Testosterone triggers receptors to increase libido in men and woman... Nandrolone, a 19-Nortestosterone has negative effects on sex drive.

  12. #12
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Antarctica
    Posts
    4,394
    Testosterone should be included in every cycle. There is medical reason, Im very shocked to see that it was stated there wasnt. Spermatogenesis is a quick and easy one of the top of my head. Libido is the obvious.

    Quick run on medline

    Bone tensile strength
    Energy
    Protien synthesis regulation and structure regulation
    Cognitive brain functions


    The big and obvious, much more tired and no libido. Not including a minimal baseling (even 100mg would be enough) is foolish. And yes, I have tried it myself.

  13. #13
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,983
    Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
    Testosterone should be included in every cycle. There is medical reason, Im very shocked to see that it was stated there wasnt.
    I said personally, I know of no medical reasoning for "testosterone must be used in every cycle"... aside from the reasons I sugested above.

    Increasing bone mineral density and bone strength, increased pain tollerence, mental intensity, increased protein synthesis - these are anabolic effects of AAS in general.

  14. #14
    D Mc C's Avatar
    D Mc C is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    168
    im sorta liking Cock Diesel155's idea of 250mg test a week. i think i will do a little research on a deca (about 400-500 mgs a week), test (250mg a week) and 25mgs d-bol ED.
    thanks for your help guys. please keep this thread active

  15. #15
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    4.34 (handheld) 40m time
    Posts
    134
    Which test do you guys reccomend with taking Deca 200 and how often? I'm 2 weeks into Deca(taking it with Proviron for side effect precausions) and not on any sort of test..

    please fill me in

  16. #16
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    8,071
    Doing a cycle without Test is like....Having a penis without a hard on...JK...I couldn't imagine doing a cycle without it,and I'm doing only 300mg a week...

  17. #17
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    4.34 (handheld) 40m time
    Posts
    134
    Please tell me which test would be best to take and how often? I read in another thread that if i'm taking Deca I need to get my test dosage higher then what my deca is. Which means i'll need 200+ of test..

    some insight would be appreciated. Thanks

  18. #18
    Cock Diesel155's Avatar
    Cock Diesel155 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic
    Posts
    372
    Originally posted by Slangin Roids
    Please tell me which test would be best to take and how often? I read in another thread that if i'm taking Deca I need to get my test dosage higher then what my deca is. Which means i'll need 200+ of test..

    some insight would be appreciated. Thanks
    Sounds to me like you need to read a lot more threads.. Probably over 1,000,000 threads regarding test on this board. Happy Reading..

    P.S.- Next time you might not wanna hijack people's threads.. Some bros get pissed about that..

  19. #19
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    4.34 (handheld) 40m time
    Posts
    134
    cock diesel, "hijacking" a thread is better than starting my own, besides it atleast ups the thread back up for the creator. I've been looking through the threads but people only say "test" and don't specify which test -- that is why I'm asking. The board is to ask questions right?

  20. #20
    Big Rush's Avatar
    Big Rush is offline The Juice Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Wal-Mart
    Posts
    3,498
    Originally posted by Cock Diesel155
    If your gonna do another cycle I suggest running Test but at a low dose if you are weary. Run it around 250mgs a week.. Many bro's on here will strongly disagree with me on this, but I am running QV Enanthate right now at 250mgs/wk and am getting solid results. Of course my diet is on track which is the most important thing.. My next cycle is gonna be 500mgs/wk of Test, but this is my first and I wanted to run a lower dose. I am very glad I did.. So let us know on what you decide.. Also if you want to research on this try "low dose cycles" or look under "Bask8kace".. He has posted many times on low doses..
    I agree with the "low maitanence dose of test" theory, especially for those who are weary of bloat or any other test side-effect....

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •