Tre, Prop, var,clen

Hi guys

I have been following these threads for some time now and decided to become apart of the community :hello:.

I am about to start my 2nd cycle (1st being 14 weeks pyramiding cypionate, achieved great results and retained most of my MUSCLE gains.) and hoping that i could get some in depth experienced advice, all input is welcome as i wish to start in 2-3 weeks.

2nd cycle:
Tren
Prop
Anavar
Clen

Pct's
Clomid

The reason i haven't put up how much and how often i will be doing each is because i still haven't decided my self and this is why i joined so i could get some recommendations from experienced users on how to cycle the 5. As you can see i'm looking at gaining muscle whilst staying lean.

I train hard 5-6 days and have in depth knowledge on training and intensity, i also have a nutritionist so diet is up to scratch but a noob on steroids

My stats are listed on my profile.

Thanks people i will post progress photos fortnightly

What are your stats?
Way to many compounds for your 2nd cycle, tren is defiantly not needed

Height = 180cm's
Weight = 86.6 kg
Body Fat % = 15%

All start are listed on my profile

Why do you think tren isn't a good idea?

Tren is an advanced user compound .
If you had great resulks with test only run it again. No need to stack

When I did cypionate i had allot of water retention. That's the reason for me wanting to do all these compounds that are known to assist in a bulk & Cut with low water retention. I dont want to do tren, anavar, for more then 6 weeks and not alot either I.E anavar 80mg a day but the clen i will be pyramiding and as for prop i was looking at doing that for 12-14 weeks?

I got great results with test only on mass and strength but i am looking for a little bit more this time with a bulk and major cut. Am i getting ahead of my self and if I want to accomplish these results without so many compounds what can you recommend?

Your going to cause yourself some problems cycling at your age.

Personally I would use your diet to achieve your goals but I have a feeling thats not what you want to hear

all the best

Gotta check the age. At 22 yrs old you need to wait a while to avoid serious problems down the road.

Is steroids really healthy at any age, What makes it so bad at 22 as opposed to lets say 32?

I will definitely be using my diet and have been for a while, I have a nutritionist and stick to it without fail, I knew how to eat properly but got one just incase i was doing something wrong and haven't been.

I do want something more then i can get naturally over the next few years.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

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Thanks marcus i really appreciate that but i think i am going to still go through with it, i know it's something you don't want to hear and are sick of young newbies like me making big decisions like this with my age an cycle experience. Do you suggest i get rid of the tren and/or anything else if i decide to go through with it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Natty Brah

Thanks marcus i really appreciate that but i think i am going to still go through with it, i know it's something you don't want to hear and are sick of young newbies like me making big decisions like this with my age an cycle experience. Do you suggest i get rid of the tren and/or anything else if i decide to go through with it?

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I would advice you to stop using steroids before they damage you, no matter if your going to carry on or not my opinion stays the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

I would advice you to stop using steroids before they damage you, no matter if your going to carry on or not my opinion stays the same.

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Ok thank you Marcus i appreciate your help.

You will never catch me saying this in public (oh wait this is a public forum), anyhow, Its obvious you have decided, and frankly I am exhausted and worn down from trying to convince young kids the error of their ways. If you do this, and again my advise is to follow exactly as Marcus has said, then do NOT consider Tren or a multi compound stack. Stick to Test. Test prop if you don't mind the injections and are seeking a nice short cycle, Test E or C if injections are an issue and you want to run longer. Honestly I prefer the shorte cycle for a number of reason.

Test P @ 100 mg eod with a solid diet will yeild great results.
You need an AI and please tell us your dosage protocal for your pct


DISCLAIMER::::I am NOT telling you to do this nor do I think it's a good idea at your age. 2 more years with a real diet and routine will blow you up.

The second i have figured out my dosages and weeks, I will update them asap. I haven't decided anything solid. Your words are not falling on deaf ears. Keep educating us young, dumb kids lol it does help that's why i asked

I am taking in everything and not disregarding yours advice.
As soon as i figure out the dosages i will update you on that.