Muscle spasms and cramps while on cycle or towards end of cycle? Solution: MAGNESIUM.

[Atomini]

Some of you might remember I made a thread in the past about getting these strange muscle spasms and cramps that tend to begin towards the middle of the cycle and always get worse towards the end of my cycles. This has been happening ever since I started AAS use, and it happens every single cycle i'm on. See the initial thread I made on it, here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ycle-and-input!

Another member did post a little later on concerning the exact same thing, experiencing the same types of cramps and symptoms, see the thread here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...07362-Cramping

Just to clarify, the symptoms of these particular types of cramps are as follows:
- When any muscle is in a contracted position for an extended period of time (all it needs to be is even just 3 minutes), if the muscle is quickly extended, it spasms/cramps up. Think of being on the phone for a good while, your arm in that position while you talk. The call ends and you go to hang up the phone or put the phone down and BAM, spasm!
- It seems to be fast movements whereby the muscle is extended. If the muscle is extended slowly, it doesn't occur.
- The spasms are not random - they occur only in response to fast extension of the muscle.

Now, not everyone gets cramps on cycle but I do believe that in some of us (myself being one of these people), AAS seems to deplete levels of certain minerals and nutrients. This could be perhaps due to the intensity of training, or by factors unknown. I believe it is factors unknown. I ruled out dehydration, as I drink a ton of water while on cycle as well as off cycle, and the cramps still occur on cycle. I thought perhaps it could be insufficient electrolyte replenishment as well, but what I need to nail down first through trial and error are the big 3: Taurine, Potassium, Mangesium. One of these must be deficient.

I am at the end of my 8 week high dose Trenbolone cycle, and as per usual, the spasms began at about week 5 and have steadily gotten worse. And I say spasms because these are more like spasms than cramps. It is at the point now (end of week 8) where the spasms are so bad as usual, that it acts up when doing things like sitting down too fast (hamstrings and glutes spasm and cramp up), etc. So, this is definitely my perfect time to nail this down and see what exactly it is. I have attempted to try Taurine supplementation to no avail (this works only for cramps caused by Clenbuterol depleting Tuarine levels). I have then tried megadosing Potassium (upwards of 1g per day) to no avail either. I have now attempted Magnesium supplementation (1g per day now, 500mg twice per day) and this seems to be working!

1g per day so far for 3 days and the spasms/cramps have steadily become far less severe, and are occurring far less frequently. If I keep this up, it should eliminate the cramps/spasms all together. At one point the spasms got so bad that I was performing a set of bicep curls on the curl machine (single sets of one arm at a time before switching to the next arm). I completed an intense set to failure of my right arm, and switched to my left. In the middle of the set, my right arm cramped up SO BAD, the whole arm locked up and I couldn't move it for a good 15 seconds. It was kind of scary, considering I had no control over it, but I knew what was going on.

Anyhow, I am informing anyone with cramping issues on cycle - ESPECIALLY if the cramps/spasms are of the same nature that I listed just now - to supplement with Magnesium. I guarantee that is your culprit. Try 1g per day (500mg twice daily) of Magnesium, and I just take mine all at once. The only issue with administration is to make sure that you don't consume your Magnesium with Calcium, or any Calcium containing foods. This is because Magnesium and Calcium compete fiercely for absorbtion in the body when taken together. You may not end up absorbing all of the Magnesium.

EDIT: I wanted to clear something concerning the different Magnesium supplements out there, and I should have mentioned this when I created this thread. One can walk into a Walmart or drug store and spot several different types of Mangesium on the shelves and wonder what to buy. There are primarily 3 types of Magnesium you will commonly find: Magnesium Oxide, Magnesium Citrate, and the more rare Magnesium Glycinate (chelated Magnesium, which is Magnesium bound to an animo acid). So,

Magnesium Oxide: This is the most commonly found Mg supplement out there, but the problem is its EXTREMELY POOR ABSORBTION AND BIOAVILABILITY. It is perhaps the worst out of all of them. This is what I was using at the time of writing this thread. I was using 2g per day at most, and then dropped down to 1g per day. The MgO I was using was supplied in 500mg tablets.

Magnesium Citrate: Also extremely common and has a far better absorbtion and bioavailability than MgO. It is, however, still considered not that great but MUCH better than MgO. I am currently using this as of writing this edit to this post. I am currently taking 450mg per day, and the brand I use supplies the Magnesium Citrate in 150mg capsules, so I take 3 per day. This is of course a lesser dose than when I was using MgO, but I figure it is a fair trade-off since far more Mg is being assimilated in the Citrate form than the Oxide form, therefore I don't need to ingest as much.

Magnesium Glycinate (chelated Magnesium): Rarely found in common drugstores, and this is why I don't use it, otherwise I would be using this variant. Can be found online or in specialty health food / vitamin shops. This is the Mg variant with one of the highest absorbtion rates. If you have easy access to this one, I would reccomend using it over the other two types.

[austinite]

Another outstanding contribution, Atomini. Well done.

[Atomini]

Note that this may not work for EVERYONE. Cramps can be caused by different types of deficiencies/depletions, or by other issues entirely. I have just found that in my particular case, Magnesium deficiency seems to be the issue here. I think this should work for everyone else with the same types of cramps and symptoms.

Clenbuterol cramps are for example very different. They even feel different, and the patterns by which they occur are completely different. I think the key is not to shotgun the situation by taking the big 3 (Taurine, Potassium, Magnesium) all at once. Do it one at a time. Try Taurine supplementation for 3 days, then stop and try Potassium for 3 days, etc. etc. until you find out what works. I think this should be common sense in trial and error investigation, in order to find out what is the cause of the problem.

[Lunk1]

Yes...while on cycle I suffer from this BIG time and found that I need magnesium as well.

This is great info for all of those that thing cramps=potassium (or menstral for some of you)

[Atomini]

If your cramps are of the menstrual type, then there's no solution for you! lol

You get the same type of spasms though? Fast muscle extension = tight cramp up?

[Lunk1]

If your cramps are of the menstrual type, then there's no solution for you! lol

You get the same type of spasms though? Fast muscle extension = tight cramp up?

Yes..worste time is during long bout of sex right about climax (I swear no joke). Locks my hams and quads up baaaaddd!

[Atomini]

I've had that almost happen a few times. I've never had a lock-up occur outside of that one time I was training biceps. You'd have to be extremely depleted to have a cramp that bad that it locks you up when its not during a workout.

[Dukkit]

I also get these cramps.

And I also supplement with Magnesium and it helps.

I started taking Magnesium to help with my headaches...

but noticed my cramping/spasms stopped as well.

[Lunk1]

I've had that almost happen a few times. I've never had a lock-up occur outside of that one time I was training biceps. You'd have to be extremely depleted to have a cramp that bad that it locks you up when its not during a workout.

My legs are the worst. Sometimes I get an onset of cramping as I get under the bar on the squat rack. I have to back out and walk it off.

I am not kidding you I have had to push her off of me and then do everyrthing I can to rise to my feet and start walking to get it to go away

[gixxerboy1]

good post. I also use magnesium ed

[Atomini]

I get that while sleeping, the notorious calve cramps. I never EVER get them when not cycling. As soon as I start to cycle, and the cramps start around week 5, i'll start to wake up in the middle of the night with my calves either borderline cramping up or full out cramping where I have to force my foot into dorsoflexion to stop it from getting worse. Sometimes i'll wake up just in time to notice it beginning, and be able to relax myself. The Magnesium has really helped, and I am thinking of increasing it to 1.5 - 2g per day to try and completely eliminate the cramping if 1g per day doesn't eventually do it in a few days.

[Atomini]

I also did an Anadrol cycle in the past where it seemed to have made the cramps far worse than any other cycle i've done. Likely because of the water retention effects of the Anadrol, holding water outside the muscle. I remember doing a set of squats and I could not stand up because my quads would be in the contracted position, and would cramp up like crazy. I couldn't even walk for a few minutes otherwise i'd cramp up bad every time I take a step, I had to sit down and rest it out.

[austinite]

Man. I'm gonna need a bigger pill box. My glucosamine horse pills are taking up too much room.

[Atomini]

I don't even take Glucosamine. I don't think i've touched that stuff in over 6 years.

[Atomini]

Just an update:

Up until yesterday i've been taking 1g per day of Magnesium to alleviate the spasms, and it was working but not totally eliminating the spasms. The severity of them diminished but they were still there. I got a bad cramp yesterday during a leg workout. Yesterday I increased Magnesium intake to 2g per day and now the spasms and cramps are completely GONE. 2g seems to be the sweet spot for stopping cramps, for me at least.

[MickeyKnox]

excellent post and info Atomini! not sure how i missed this first time around.

[Atomini]

Thanks! The whole issue of cramping and what was causing it was just KILLING me every since I started cycling. I thought to myself that there was nothing I could do about it and just had to deal with it. This was after trying taurine and potassium, and just getting frustrated. Decided to give magnesium supplementation a shot and it seems like it works (for this case of cramping anyways).

As I said, there are different cramps that have different causes and can be from different deficiencies of minerals (and sometimes more than one too). Now my question is: why would AAS be causing Magnesium deficiency in me? Especially towards the middle to end of my cycles?

[yannick35]

ZMA every night nice post

[MickeyKnox]

Thanks! The whole issue of cramping and what was causing it was just KILLING me every since I started cycling. I thought to myself that there was nothing I could do about it and just had to deal with it. This was after trying taurine and potassium, and just getting frustrated. Decided to give magnesium supplementation a shot and it seems like it works (for this case of cramping anyways).

As I said, there are different cramps that have different causes and can be from different deficiencies of minerals (and sometimes more than one too). Now my question is: why would AAS be causing Magnesium deficiency in me? Especially towards the middle to end of my cycles?

very interesting for sure. props for discovering this for yourself and sharing bro. and as far as why it helps? youre the med student..lol

once again, excellent piece of research.

[austinite]

Bump.

This worked. Good job, Atomini.

[Atomini]

Yup, Magnesium at 2 grams per day has wiped out my spasms. I'm down to 1 gram a day now and doing just fine. I may have to up it to 2 grams per day when on cycle since the spasms always flare up on cycle though. We'll see what happens on my next cycle.

[DanB]

Some of you might remember I made a thread in the past about getting these strange muscle spasms and cramps that tend to begin towards the middle of the cycle and always get worse towards the end of my cycles. This has been happening ever since I started AAS use, and it happens every single cycle i'm on. See the initial thread I made on it, here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ycle-and-input!

Another member did post a little later on concerning the exact same thing, experiencing the same types of cramps and symptoms, see the thread here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...07362-Cramping

Just to clarify, the symptoms of these particular types of cramps are as follows:
- When any muscle is in a contracted position for an extended period of time (all it needs to be is even just 3 minutes), if the muscle is quickly extended, it spasms/cramps up. Think of being on the phone for a good while, your arm in that position while you talk. The call ends and you go to hang up the phone or put the phone down and BAM, spasm!
- It seems to be fast movements whereby the muscle is extended. If the muscle is extended slowly, it doesn't occur.
- The spasms are not random - they occur only in response to fast extension of the muscle.

Now, not everyone gets cramps on cycle but I do believe that in some of us (myself being one of these people), AAS seems to deplete levels of certain minerals and nutrients. This could be perhaps due to the intensity of training, or by factors unknown. I believe it is factors unknown. I ruled out dehydration, as I drink a ton of water while on cycle as well as off cycle, and the cramps still occur on cycle. I thought perhaps it could be insufficient electrolyte replenishment as well, but what I need to nail down first through trial and error are the big 3: Taurine, Potassium, Mangesium. One of these must be deficient.

I am at the end of my 8 week high dose Trenbolone cycle, and as per usual, the spasms began at about week 5 and have steadily gotten worse. And I say spasms because these are more like spasms than cramps. It is at the point now (end of week 8) where the spasms are so bad as usual, that it acts up when doing things like sitting down too fast (hamstrings and glutes spasm and cramp up), etc. So, this is definitely my perfect time to nail this down and see what exactly it is. I have attempted to try Taurine supplementation to no avail (this works only for cramps caused by Clenbuterol depleting Tuarine levels). I have then tried megadosing Potassium (upwards of 1g per day) to no avail either. I have now attempted Magnesium supplementation (1g per day now, 500mg twice per day) and this seems to be working!

1g per day so far for 3 days and the spasms/cramps have steadily become far less severe, and are occurring far less frequently. If I keep this up, it should eliminate the cramps/spasms all together. At one point the spasms got so bad that I was performing a set of bicep curls on the curl machine (single sets of one arm at a time before switching to the next arm). I completed an intense set to failure of my right arm, and switched to my left. In the middle of the set, my right arm cramped up SO BAD, the whole arm locked up and I couldn't move it for a good 15 seconds. It was kind of scary, considering I had no control over it, but I knew what was going on.

Anyhow, I am informing anyone with cramping issues on cycle - ESPECIALLY if the cramps/spasms are of the same nature that I listed just now - to supplement with Magnesium. I guarantee that is your culprit. Try 1g per day (500mg twice daily) of Magnesium, and I just take mine all at once. The only issue with administration is to make sure that you don't consume your Magnesium with Calcium, or any Calcium containing foods. This is because Magnesium and Calcium compete fiercely for absorbtion in the body when taken together. You may not end up absorbing all of the Magnesium.

very interesting, i'll try this as i also experience this

good info, always something to learn around here!

[Misery13]

Thank you. I have the same cramps and will give this a try.

[warmouth]

Awesome post Atomini! Great work you do for the community here.

[austinite]

1.5 grams did it for me. I'll stay on this a while at least.

[Chuckdiesel]

A small bit I should add to the effect of proper supplementation...one should supplement correctly year round, whether on cycle or not. Proper supplementation is just as important as diet, rest, and training while on cycle or off. It's almost like telling someone to eat like shit while off cycle but when on eat clean. That's not the proper way. I personally use 5000iu of vit d, 5g vit c, 600mg magnesium malate, 150mg zinc, 2g calcium, 2g msm, 1.5g potassium asporotate, 150mg b complex, a multi mineral and electrolyte complex that's suspended in colloids. I believe that's bout it, but I take this 7 days a week all year and I have never had an issue with cramps or spasms or tweaked muscles.

[ironbeck]

Man. I'm gonna need a bigger pill box. My glucosamine horse pills are taking up too much room.

I just read an article(arthritis magazine) that chodrotin and glucosamine have not been clinically proven to work, the only thing proven to work is fish or krill oil.

[Brick]

I just read an article(arthritis magazine) that chodrotin and glucosamine have not been clinically proven to work, the only thing proven to work is fish or krill oil.

My knees hurt. I take glucosamine and then they don't. And don't believe all studies, here's one for you.

My dog, yes my dog, was 14 years old. She couldn't walk anymore and could barely move from a lying down position to standing. We started her on 1 pill of glucosamine (I don't remember the mg) ed and then she was able to walk again!

[Atomini]

I just read an article(arthritis magazine) that chodrotin and glucosamine have not been clinically proven to work, the only thing proven to work is fish or krill oil.

Likewise, I don't even bother with glucosamine. I have not touched that in about 6 years.

[songdog]

Good job bro.

[Atomini]

BUMP: I edited my original post to include information on the different forms of Magnesium out there so that one can be better informed about what type of Magnesium to buy. I should have included this information from the beginning.

[Stronglift]

*I know this is an old thread and that I'm bumping something ancient, but this thread is extremely interesting to me because I have never before managed to find someone explaining a condition/set of symptoms exactly similar to my own*

I cannot believe I haven't found this thread sooner!!
I, too, have experienced these symptoms relating to, what you precisely describe as, muscle spasms and twitches. The nature of my own symptoms have been exactly as you describe yours - involuntary muscle contractions that occur when a muscle has been in a (semi)contracted position for a duration of time and is then extended (somewhat)'fast'. I write 'fast' because we're not talking actual explosive movements or anything dramatic.. we are talking sitting with your arms crossed for a minute and then deciding to reach for your phone/whatever only to experience your arm flexors contract in a spasmic fasion as if your myotatic reflex was engaged. Daily movements that you do many times a day can induce these muscle spasms.

The occurence of the described symptoms freaked me out enough to make me visit my doctor, spill my guts about my AAS use, and have him do all sorts of tests on me, including blood, nerve, reflex and muscle tests. Seeing how he couldn't find the cause for my symptoms and because of the fact that I had no actual myotatic reflex present anywhere in my body he refered me to a specialist. Eventually I went through a series of neurological and muscle tests to determine whether or not I suffered from a neurological disease. Luckily, I do not.. When all of this was going on I asked around on some of the online boards that I consider more knowlegeable when it comes to AAS and was unable to find other people out there who had/was experiencing the same issues.

For the ones of you who have experienced this: Have any of you by any chance also experienced shaking when doing abominal work? I have had this incontrolable shaking in the eccentric portion my ab chrunches(resisted abdominal extension) - anyone else??

Honestly, being four months completely off and feeling like my physique is worse than it has been for years im contemplating using again if I could get around these fuking muscle spasm-related issues. High doses of magnesium supplementaion you say...

Edit: Does anyone know how I can contact Atomini?

[stacktrace]

Magnesium deficiency does seem to be the culprit. However, for me I am up to about 5g of magnesium glycinate per day and the spasm are still occurring (however they're not as severe). I can also notice a difference about 20 min after oral supplementation, but it seems to only suppress the symptoms for 1-2 hours before I have to take more Mg. At high doses it does cause diarrhea and I've recently been trying transdermal supplementation (which seems to be helping as well). I'm also looking into IM shots of magnesium, but need a doctor script.

Does anyone know how long these symptoms last after stopping the cycle while continuing Mg supplementation?

[machin36]

I will try this out. I have noticed the same symptoms my calf musle feel like they are going to cramp up at anytime. It is a constant feeling an they do sometimes
and It started after my 6th week in on my cycle test e 300 . 300mg weekly

[powerliftmike]

I recommend the ZMA supplement. Zinc and Magnesium do get depleted in training. You will sleep better on this too.

[NACH3]

ZMA/taurine Have really helped my neck/R. Shoulder/and sub-scapular area would lock up in the neck or back(but always was connected to my shoulder and scapula probs...

I've also had these same spasms whenever growth is occuring - especially in arms(bis) just something I've noticed & it's definitely the fast movement opposed to slow movements) stretching has helped.... Just my experience

[MBDN313]

Interesting. I'm reading through this, but i should note that this is my first cycle and i pulled a back muscle twice, which is VERY strange for me. I upped herbs for this and it seemed to have taken care of it. Thanks for the contribution.

[stacktrace]

It's definitely an electrolyte imbalance, although it's hard to nail down which one specifically. Deficiencies in both Magnesium and Calcium can cause tetany: "Low calcium and low magnesium, which increase the activity of nerve tissue nonspecifically, also can produce tetanic cramps." This is not a "charley horse" type cramp where your muscle locks up and you need to massage it to get it to release, but rather a sporatic spasm that occurs when quickly extending the muscle "eccentrically". I have a theory on why it could be a magnesium deficiency, but it is only a theory...

Mg deficiency is a common symptom among chronic fatigue patients, but doctors still haven't fully discovered why. One physician out of the UK has been studying CFS theorizes that there could be a failure (or sub optimal capacity) of the mitochondria in the cells to produce ATP. ATP is the fuel for the body and is involved in all metabolic processes. Almost 40% of our ATP is used to regulate calcium/magnesium and potasium/sodium channels. I suspect that when mitochondria fail, these pumps malfunction and therefore calcium leaks into cells and magnesium leaks out of cells. This, of course, compounds the underlying mitochondrial failure because calcium is toxic to mitochondria and magnesium necessary for normal mitochondrial function. The reason for magnesium supplementation is in order to reduce the work of the calcium/magnesium ion pump by reducing the concentration gradient across cell membranes.

Unlike CFS patients, I believe that AAS users mitochondria/ATP production can not keep up with the abnormal muscle growth and the ATP is being used for anabolic muscle building processes, thus leading to Mg/Ca malfunction and creating an unbalanced Mg/Ca gradient across cell membranes which is leading to the tetany.

All very intricate, and it's hard to say if this is the culprit for sure but it is a theory. I believe the best solution for this is Mg supplementation, and if necessary Mg injection (IM) as it is a more steady release of Mg and can ensure that Mg is absorbed (as opposed to oral supplementation or transdermal application).

Has anyone with these symptoms experimented with Mg Injections and if so was there a positive result in this type of supplementation?

[lexy]

Yes...while on cycle I suffer from this BIG time and found that I need magnesium as well.

This is great info for all of those that thing cramps=potassium (or menstral for some of you)

I've been taking primobolan and i have so much painful cramls lower back, glutes and hamstring, i also have blood gathers in my legs.....what can i do to stop this!!??

[lexy]

Can i take magnesium with primobolan?