For those who think gains stay.....

[binsser]

I noticed photos the other day of Dorian Yates now days still a big guy but no where near where he was when he competed was amazing to see how different he looks. With what you are saying about them running trt doses is this because they are permanently shut down or is it to remain on and big. I had a mate who did 2 years straight on gear not because he needed to and dude was ridiculously massive but he came off stopped training and dropped right down still big but nowhere near where he was

yeah ive seen photos of this as well does look about 30 percent smaller but still massive , ull always lose abit after cause you will... but not all ..if that was the case i wouldnt bother id just do it naturaly steriods would be a waste of time pumping your body up for 12 weeks then shrinking right back down after 2 weeks ??? i dont think so just doesnt happen!

[< <Samson> >]

All about your genetic max without it being over driven juice.

Just depends on how you handle it. If you do wanna be "big" regular cycling will be required. After a run I can spot 95% of the guys at the gym that juice and juice regularly.

[binsser]

yep thats exactly what im saying the op is a big boy looks good and without putting 14500mg of test lololol in his body it doesnt want to know and that is not a good amount to do thats almost abuse ha ha ha gentics is key and his are really good why push it into a heart attack!

[dec11]

Some of them do come off...not for extremely long periods of time but many of them come off. A lot of them will come off after the Olympia and they will shrink. It's not uncommon for a lot of these guys to run nothing but a TRT dose for 2-3 months after the Olympia and I can think of a few who don't run anything at all for a couple of months. Yes, they shrink, noticeably. Still more muscular than most men but there's definitely a loss.

I've said it a thousand times, it takes a certain amount of hormones circulating through the body to maintain a set amount of muscle tissue just as it takes a set amount of calories for maintenance.

exactly, when i was self prescribing trt @ 250mg per week i held 100kgs no probs and even on a sparse diet but now that im on nebido from the doc im more around 90-93kgs, all im missing is the extra water that 250mg pw provided.

[dec11]

yep thats exactly what im saying the op is a big boy looks good and without putting 14500mg of test lololol in his body it doesnt want to know and that is not a good amount to do thats almost abuse ha ha ha gentics is key and his are really good why push it into a heart attack!

mate, i did a large amount to win a competition and set a national record in the process. and no, im not naturally gifted at all, my complete untrained weight is around 12st, 2st from natty training an roughly another 1st from AAS ive ever done

i dont know what your 'loling' at to be honest, you've barely any muscle on your frame so what qualifies you to laugh at my protocols or question my comp prep? what are your achievements to date, and what do you aspire to do other than look good in a t-shirt?

you seem a tad jealous in some way............

oh, and i didnt use 14500mgs of test, you might want to actually read the thread rather come in with jealous retorts.......

[dec11]

i'd like to hear input and experiences from the likes of booz and marcus, they're both in the AAS game a long time.

[poppz]

well since u seem out of the game shoot me a pm on your connect.LOL.

[dec11]

well since u seem out of the game shoot me a pm on your connect.LOL.

contrary to popular belief i only started at the age of 31 on AAS, been training since 15-16 though. in truth i dont know what the hell i even started for, should have known better at that age, but then i suppose having been involved with pushing weights half my life the curiosity was always there to see what they actually would do for me and of course working in a gym was the catalyst! was more drugs in there than the town's chemists lol

one thing i will say though is that they werent the massive kick up the arse i was expecting, good but certainly not mind blowing good.

[Metalject]

I noticed photos the other day of Dorian Yates now days still a big guy but no where near where he was when he competed was amazing to see how different he looks. With what you are saying about them running trt doses is this because they are permanently shut down or is it to remain on and big. I had a mate who did 2 years straight on gear not because he needed to and dude was ridiculously massive but he came off stopped training and dropped right down still big but nowhere near where he was

Guys that stay on at least a TRT dose are generally doing so just to have testosterone in their body...it rarely has anything to do with maintaining size. Any size they lose they'll easily regain. I can actually think of two guys who will compete in the Olympia next wk who will come off everything after the show...few wks after and I mean come off everything. One's a 212 and one open. They may or may not use a little Nolvadex but that would be it and won't touch anything else until the off-season officially starts, which will be sometime in December. Both do this every year. And yes, by around Thanksgiving they'll look a whole lot smaller.

Does all this mean they lost a massive amount of muscle mass because they look so much smaller? Yes and no. Yes because they're smaller but no because so much of bodybuilding is, for lack of a better word, an illusion.

Anyway, talking about Dorian, he still trains regularly. His diet is anyone's guess but that doesn't really matter. When we're talking about massive amounts of muscle mass it's all controlled by hormone levels. I'll concede that an average height guy could maintain a good bit of weight after a cycle without losing it, but at 5'10" holding onto 220+ lbs of muscle at a decent body fat for an indefinite amount of time without steroids ...no way in hell.

[dec11]

one thing we all definitely maintain is a big hefty dose of paranoia!! lol

[GreatSuccess]

Good read. This concept, Dec, is what kept me from cycling yet. That and high blood pressure.

My real world experience friend is a guy who was 5'10 at around 180 11%. Started cycling stupid and did test e 300mg a week for only 4-6 weeks. He did this for just a few cycles. Haven't seen him in a while but I heard he is small now. Morsel than before he cycled.

[Metalject]

Good read. This concept, Dec, is what kept me from cycling yet. That and high blood pressure.

My real world experience friend is a guy who was 5'10 at around 180 11%. Started cycling stupid and did test e 300mg a week for only 4-6 weeks. He did this for just a few cycles. Haven't seen him in a while but I heard he is small now. Morsel than before he cycled.

Using steroids isn't for everyone, however, it's not that using them and then stopping is going to make you smaller or less muscular than before just because you used steroids. I've heard guys say before they're scared to use steroids because they've heard once you stop it's easy for the muscle to turn to fat. This is obviously ridiculous. Just like anything in life that's worth having, you have to continue to pursue it if you want to keep it.

Look at it this way. If you work harder you can make more money. Of course, you'll have to work longer and harder to have more financial success and this keeps a lot of people away from it. At the same time, if you work harder and have greater financial success, if you stop you will have less success. You will burn through some money and have less than you did before. Does this mean the harder work wasn't worthwhile? Of course not.

[poppz]

well good luck to you Dec 11 , seems you might be going through a postcycle depression BUT you are more experienced in the game than me so good luck to your future decisions on gear.

[bosh1911]

What about someone who hasn't reached his "genetic limit". Will he be able to maintain the muscle gained or at least most of it? For example, lets say I am 160lb 10% bf and my limit is 190lb 10%bf. If I cycle (doesn't matter what. Does it?) and gain 20lb of lean muscle, should I be able to stay at 180lb or 170 which is half? Assuming I am eating and training properly.

[Brazensol]

Concerning hgh. When talking about keeping gains from aas by using hgh do you mean taking it at the same time to "lock" in the gains or are you talking about using hgh during and after to maintain the gains? In other words are we replacing 'cruising with Test Cyp" to lifetime use of hgh?

Since I am on trt with test cyp, how much is considered cruising? I see a few guys claiming they are keeping most/all of their gains and also stating they are on trt. Without going back and rereading all the posts to find it I think someone said they are on 125mg/week and keeping their gains. I am currently on 120mgs/week and expect to increase after next doc appointment, depending on labs of course.

[gixxerboy1]

i agree with dec and metalject.

On cycle i get to about 205lbs. No matter how much i eat or what i do i can not maintain that weight unless on cycle. Now i am on trt and my test levels are at 1100 when on trt. Thats higher then most guys. So when i come off cycle and back to trt the scales slowly but surely drops.

As far as loosing everything. Depends how you are taking that. Are you going to go back to your size like you never took anything ever. No you shouldnt. If your genetic limit was 210lbs and you start another cycle and get to 220lbs yes eventually you will loose everything from that cycle and return again to 210lbs.

[kelkel]

Regarding pro's and Dorian, etc. Of course he's not a big as he was when competing. He's retired and basically a business man now. He has no desire to train at the same intensity as he did when competing nor have the same intake of anabolics. Life changes and we all head down different paths. I actually ate breakfast with him by chance at one of the Arnold Classics I've attended (Ed Coan too) which was very interesting to say the least. Smaller version but in person, still very impressive.

[binsser]

[QUOTE=dec11;6175582]mate, i did a large amount to win a competition and set a national record in the process. and no, im not naturally gifted at all, my complete untrained weight is around 12st, 2st from natty training an roughly another 1st from AAS ive ever done

i dont know what your 'loling' at to be honest, you've barely any muscle on your frame so what qualifies you to laugh at my protocols or question my comp prep? what are your achievements to date, and what do you aspire to do other than look good in a t-shirt?

im not jealous at all buddy i said you look good and thumbs up to you !! well done if your 90-93 then i cant see how you can call me skinny because im 92 kilos so spose if your pic is recent then it must have been a massive amount of water weight might have been not too good gear i dont know to be honest all ive said is youve done really well you look good and your way up past your genetic level but surley you should keep something from a cycle anyone???? at least a few pounds ???????

[dec11]

well good luck to you Dec 11 , seems you might be going through a postcycle depression BUT you are more experienced in the game than me so good luck to your future decisions on gear.

jesus h christ, theres some amount of BS analysis on here lol. im far from depressed mate lol

[dec11]

[QUOTE=binsser;6175974]

mate, i did a large amount to win a competition and set a national record in the process. and no, im not naturally gifted at all, my complete untrained weight is around 12st, 2st from natty training an roughly another 1st from AAS ive ever done

i dont know what your 'loling' at to be honest, you've barely any muscle on your frame so what qualifies you to laugh at my protocols or question my comp prep? what are your achievements to date, and what do you aspire to do other than look good in a t-shirt?

im not jealous at all buddy i said you look good and thumbs up to you !! well done if your 90-93 then i cant see how you can call me skinny because im 92 kilos so spose if your pic is recent then it must have been a massive amount of water weight might have been not too good gear i dont know to be honest all ive said is youve done really well you look good and your way up past your genetic level but surley you should keep something from a cycle anyone???? at least a few pounds ???????

haha, tell you what, i'll put one up in a months time and i'll still look x2 the size of you lol

[gixxerboy1]

jesus h christ, theres some amount of BS analysis on here lol. im far from depressed mate lol

aww Dec are you sad? Do you need a hug

[Chris J]

Welcome back dec. I thought you landed in a padded cell on the fourth floor somewhere. Serenity in murder. I inquired as to your whereabouts a few months back on the forums section. Cheers

[--->>405<<---]

all circumstantial, if you dont want to believe what i say then thats up to you, no point in playing silly games over it mate.

but for the record, ill still pull 270-280kg on trt (it is a proper medical trt btw, one that puts men at normal physical dose not a crazy cycle dose like as in the US). and ive pulled 260kg natty @97kgs bw.

just curious to what u consider "normal dose" and what u consider "crazy cycle dose" ??

[euphoric]

Muscle brought on Bt AAS is not permanent, plain and simple, everyone I know in real life shrinks back down

Dec, thanks for sharing. I hope I didnt miss this but I am trying to understand your point. Are you saying that people AT or ABOVE their true genetic potential will keep little to none of their gains from cycle? And those who are NOT YET TO their genetic potential are more likely to keep a higher percent of their gains from cycle? (Please don't infer that I am trying to justify AAS for noobs or people without serious time in training, as I feel it may look like that) just trying to understand your exact thoughts and experience. Thanks for your time and hopefully my question makes sense.

[Sworder]

If your body can't support the muscle mass genetically/hormonally it doesn't make sense that the gains would stay.

[jimmyinkedup]

If your body can't support the muscle mass genetically/hormonally it doesn't make sense that the gains would stay.

Welcome to steroid .com ....

[Sworder]

Welcome to steroid.com ....

Thank you sir!

[TexasGiant1177]

In my personal experiences, individuals who quickly amass weight that is out of the norm for what their body is accustomed to will have alot of problems with keeping the weight on. If your trying to increase the limits of your physique lb'age wise i think the only way to do it is to force your body to adjust to it. Whether that means gaining some BF just to keep your weight up where youd like it to recognize as its baseline. Atleast 6 months to a year of sitting at that weight to become adjusted. Then bump another 5lbs and work towards getting there. Biggest thing is to eat and and train consistently. IF you want your body to get used to 230lbs sit at 240 for a year. I bet youll easily maintain the weight without the gear. Currently bulking to 255 to have my body level off at around 235 hopefully.

[dec11]

Dec, thanks for sharing. I hope I didnt miss this but I am trying to understand your point. Are you saying that people AT or ABOVE their true genetic potential will keep little to none of their gains from cycle? And those who are NOT YET TO their genetic potential are more likely to keep a higher percent of their gains from cycle? (Please don't infer that I am trying to justify AAS for noobs or people without serious time in training, as I feel it may look like that) just trying to understand your exact thoughts and experience. Thanks for your time and hopefully my question makes sense.

well I trained natty for 16 odd years so I'd say I was at genetic potential, tbh I don't get into the genetic potential equation for the simple reason that I don't think any of us can truly explain it and we are merely speculating

[dec11]

Welcome back dec. I thought you landed in a padded cell on the fourth floor somewhere. Serenity in murder. I inquired as to your whereabouts a few months back on the forums section. Cheers

haha, in the immortal words of lemmy, don't let the bastids grind ya down

[dec11]

just curious to what u consider "normal dose" and what u consider "crazy cycle dose" ??

WELL in UK we get the bare minimum trt equating to ave. male levels of natty test, in the US some are getting as much as 300mg a week!

[dtob]

yeah i won it and set a national record. man i dont even pct, im on trt, it still drops off. the only time i maintained above 100kgs bw was when i was self prescribing trt at 250mg pw, which was way too much.

you must be a one in million genetic freak, everyone i know loses virtually all their cycle gains

Congrats on your win !

[dec11]

If your body can't support the muscle mass genetically/hormonally it doesn't make sense that the gains would stay.

how are you my friend? Welcome aboard, you'll find a higher more intelligent class of conversation on here lol

[dec11]

Congrats on your win !

cheers mate

[Sworder]

how are you my friend? Welcome aboard, you'll find a higher more intelligent class of conversation on here lol

Hello! Congratulations on your National Record and winning! Impressive. I hope so, seems like there is more activity here as well.

[dec11]

Hello! Congratulations on your National Record and winning! Impressive. I hope so, seems like there is more activity here as well.

cheers man. Yeah there's a lot more activity here than on most forums

[kamilo1975]

oh and btw i was at 6000cals, so you saying 5000cals is not enough to maintain 100kgs, with prob around 88 of those lean weight?

So you eat 5000 cals a day and can't maintain 100kgs, are you a midget? Wow for me to maintain 100 kgs all I have to eat is about 3000 cals. What's wrong with you? Maybe your genetic potential is 60kgs

[kamilo1975]

I still go back to a certain weight and despite some of the stupider replies, I do know what im, doing after 21yrs.

Dumber not stupider you idiot

[AD]

Dumber not stupider you idiot

Kam and dec, you 2 seem to know each other?

[gixxerboy1]

So you eat 5000 cals a day and can't maintain 100kgs, are you a midget? Wow for me to maintain 100 kgs all I have to eat is about 3000 cals. What's wrong with you? Maybe your genetic potential is 60kgs

everyone has a different metabolic rate , activity levels. How much of the body weight is actually lean mass all effects the calories you need. What those caloreis you eat are made up of matters. im under 200lbs right now and eat more then 3000 calories