Problem 1-No ANTI-E for DECA GYNO to be found

As per the wise advise from members on the forum I am buying Anti E for possible Deca Gyno[Deca only cycle]
And after intially stocking up with NOVA I have discovered with your help that this will not do anything for DECA GYNO as it is Progestorone based and not estrogen.
Still trying to get my head around how a hormone that does not actually exist in a male body can actually create itself.
Especially if it is created in a womans womb or ovary.
[So I read somewhere on the forum]
Contacted my source who contacted the pharmacy with the names of BROMO ,CABERGOLINE and they have never heard of them.
This is the same pharmacy we get the Nova and Clomid from.
We even tried to explain to him the application and he could not help.
There has got be something available otherwise there ould be thousands of local AS users walking around in our fine country with bitch tits.


OH DEAR-Any other ANTI E or other options you may have would be appreciated!!
As you say,just in case and I MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT TO BE CAUGHT WITHOUT SOME REMEDY SHOULD GYNO STRIKE!
Is there no way that NOVA does not work as 99% of the guys in SA using Deca[the most popular AS] have NOVA on standby.

kURT39

Look for Pergolide(Generic) aslo known as Permax(Brand Name)

isn't Gyno VERY VERY rare for Deca? From what i've read and talking to other bro's I've gotten that impression..

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Originally posted by Slangin Roids
isn't Gyno VERY VERY rare for Deca? From what i've read and talking to other bro's I've gotten that impression..

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It is, the "fina/Deca gyno" anti drugs are prolactin inhibitors. Deca and Fina can cause an increase in prolactin secretion which lowers test and 1. can leave estrogen at an elevated level before the body lowers it's production to compensate the test decrease
or
2. Test is lowered by Prolactin which in turn lowers estrogen and at that point, an increase in progesterone can arrise.

A controversial debate is whether or not Progesterone is a feminizing hormone. Which after more and more research, it seems that it isn't allthough the inflammation of the breast tissue can occur from prolactin build up and I believe progesterone build up as well

Pheedno, I'm on proviron right now going every other day, is that enough?

In theory winnie should work. RU-486 will do the trick... tough to find though. The "educational threads" section has a lot of good info...

Check this out:
http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...&threadid=1870

Cabergoline is the shit! It will blow the others out of the water! .25mg E3D is plenty.

Its great for sex drive off cycle too...

Billy,
Any other name for Cabergoline?
Need to make sure something is available should I experience anything Deca Gyno related.

Pheedno,I am assuming this whole process can take place irrelevant to Deca dosage or is it more common with higher dosages and a possible longer cycle?

dostinex

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Originally posted by Kurt
Billy,


Pheedno,I am assuming this whole process can take place irrelevant to Deca dosage or is it more common with higher dosages and a possible longer cycle?

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Whats your dosages of all the compounds your using? It will be dependant to ratios of those(most of the time)

please give me some insight on my last question pheedno

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Originally posted by Slangin Roids
please give me some insight on my last question pheedno

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Sorry about that bro, whats your cycle?

Pheedno, I'm taking Deca 200 with Proviron(every other day). My source tells me(and from what i've read on this site) that Deca and an anti estrogen isn't really necessary -- however I'm taking proviron every other day incase(and to block water retention). Does that sound like enough to prevent shit?

Thanks for your help

Its not...

Dostinex I run .25mg E3D

If I ran oh maybe over 800 or progestrogenic related compounds, I would probally goto .50mg E3D.

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Originally posted by Slangin Roids
Pheedno, I'm taking Deca 200 with Proviron(every other day). My source tells me(and from what i've read on this site) that Deca and an anti estrogen isn't really necessary -- however I'm taking proviron every other day incase(and to block water retention). Does that sound like enough to prevent shit?

Thanks for your help

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How much provirion? 25mg,50mg...75mg?

remember proviron is an anti-aromotasis, which it will stop most conversion of test and test derivitives into estrogens...
Also remember that progesterone can only be synthisized in the body from cholesterol there is no direct conversion from aas derivitive "deca" into progesterone. Deca really only converts into estrogens with high doses or long term use... But your "HPTA" will shut down hard (one of the gyno links)
a quote
"The Steroid Family Tree begins with cholesterol, some of which is converted to the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone, in turn, begets both progesterone and DHEA. Some progesterone and some DHEA are both converted into androstenedione, a major precursor of both estrone and testosterone. Testosterone, the best-known of the "male hormones," can be converted to the "female hormone" estradiol."


There are weaker and stroger estrogens in our body... And males and females produce progesterone thru cholesterol synthesis.

The gyno thing has been a debate for sometime and as most would agree your looking at a side effect of HPTA shut down and a pituitary misreading elevated estrogens along with a stronger sysnthesis of progesterone... my take is since the gonads are out of commission the body is reading the elevated estrogens and inturn synthesizing progesterone for testoserone conversion. But specific glands get unusual hormone signals...

My experience will say if you dont have gyno already and want to take extra procaution...go with an antiaromotasis like your proviron at 25mg to 75mg ed
or liquidex...
An anti-esrtrogen meaning a estrogen blocker @ receptor will cause a build of estrogens that will make gains more difficult with an anabolic like deca.
does that make sense?

I am also on a DECA cycle only.
Is there some benchmark as to when Deca Gyno would start to show itself?
Or can it happen anytime[including after cycle?]
Kurt39

mmaximus25, thanks for all the information. It's guys like you that keep the board enteresting and the board educated

:/:

Kurt Id worry more about deca dick then gyno. Bromocriptine is effective but unlike some other anti's, it's not recommended to take "preventively" only when it's needed because of its strong shitty side effects.

Deca gyno is very rare for dosages below 400mg/week. People get problems when running it in excess of 400mg or combined with test. You might never get gyno from test or deca alone, but progesterone combined with estrogen increases your chances greatly. I would recommend going with the dostinex (cabergoline) and using a conservative dose of deca.

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Originally posted by DeepZenPill
, but progesterone combined with estrogen increases your chances greatly.

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You cant have excess progesterone with excess estrogen. They are produced in ratio of each other. Higher level of one means a lower level of the other.

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Originally posted by mmaximus25


"The Steroid Family Tree begins with cholesterol, some of which is converted to the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone, in turn, begets both progesterone and DHEA. Some progesterone and some DHEA are both converted into androstenedione, a major precursor of both estrone and testosterone. Testosterone, the best-known of the "male hormones," can be converted to the "female hormone" estradiol."

The gyno thing has been a debate for sometime and as most would agree your looking at a side effect of HPTA shut down and a pituitary misreading elevated estrogens along with a stronger sysnthesis of progesterone... my take is since the gonads are out of commission the body is reading the elevated estrogens and inturn synthesizing progesterone for testoserone conversion. But specific glands get unusual hormone signals...

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Kind of an extended theory

Estrogens are in an elevated state due to HPTA shut down, Progesterone begins to be synthesized from pregneolone to convert into testosterone to better the estro/test ratio. But since a weekly or daily injection or test or test derivative is introduced the test conversion is not needed and the progesterone goes from test immediately into estradiol. Causing a cycle of negative feed back issues with other glands. (That’s why estro-blockers and anti-aromotizers are needed along with post cycle therapy)
But I believe estrogen isn't a problem until the test ratio isn't met properly...
In my opinion Progesterone is a negative feed back hormone that balances testosterone and estrogens by converting into test or converting into test then estrogen.

So if I'm taking 400 mg of Deca a week and 500 mg. Sust a week, just Nolvadex and Liquidex won't help? I need permax or pergolde now? Or should I just stick with these at this level?

Liquidex and Nolvadex are the administered precautions and preventions of gyno and other sides.
There are preventative drugs and treatment drugs when it comes to gyno. EX nolva,proviron:help prevent---bromo, dopergin: help treat
Your fine with liquidex and Nolva. You’re higher androgenic/anabolic Sust combined with the higher anabolic/androgenic properties of deca will be high enough to have good gains even with a high estrogen level.
The problem comes when a blocker or anti-aromo are not taken.

ive said this before, and i'll say it one more time..........

if you have never cycled before, and dont know how susceptible you are to side effects, you better have something handy to combat said sides. i dont care what dose your running of any steroid.
until you get a good feel for your limits, you better have some protection.
hell, i know guys that have been in this game for a long damn time, and they still keep nolva, liquidex, and some form of prolactin inhibiting drug handy at all times.
its a risk that can be avoided........

peace I4L

He's right... why take a chance... You may get by some years with no sides but sooner or later maybe sooner it will catch up to you...
plan cycles... don't just do a cycle...