Frontloading!!!!

[Sworder]

I advocate frontloading any compound with a half life longer than 2 days often and figured I would post a thread about it here and hear your opinion on the topic!

I don't believe frontloading to be an "advanced" techinque as a basic understanding of how a half life works should be a prerequisite for the Steroid 101 class in

which people enroll in too carelessly. Frontloading is often done in SERM protocols I prefer to frontload my SERMs the first day instead of doubling the dose all

week. Doctors often frontload medications such as anti-biotics which have a long half-life. This is something your average AAS user should take advantage of as

well!


What is frontloading??


At the start of a cycle or when you are taking a compound for the first time you purposefully take a higher dose so that you can get the appropriate levels of the

compound in your system rather than waiting two or three weeks for levels to build up.



I like frontloading because it enables me to keep my cycles shorter and I don't have to wait 3-4 weeks to get to where I want to be. If you want to metabolize 500mg

Test E/week you won't be metabolizing this amount until the third week. This becomes an issue when using Deca and EQ especially. Using longer esters is cheaper and

they contain a higher concentration so you don't have to inject as much oil into your body. This minimizes scar tissue and contrary to using short esters doesn't

leave you feeling like a pin cushion. Poke Poke


A half life is the time that it takes for your body to metabolize half of the compound. Keep in mind that it is best to think of it how much you want to

metabolize/day. For simplicity we will use 700mg/week Test E which would equate to 100mg/day. Also, the metabolic rate isn't completely linear but for simplicity

we will assume they are. Also we are assuming a 100% bioavailability and a 0 spill factor. For Testosterone Enanthate which has a half life of approximately 5 days

it takes 5 days to metabolize half of the amount injected. Then another 5 days to metabolize half of that half. This is where it may become complicated but lets

use an example where you are NOT frontloading and how much you will actually be metabolizing even though you are injecting 700mg Test E:

Week 1 Day 1 Inject 350mg Test E (during the next 5 days you will metabolize half of this amount)
Day 1 metabolize: 35mg
Day 2: 35mg
Day 3: 35mg
Day 4: 35mg from first injection Inject another 350mg and metabolize 35mg from this injection leading to total 70mg Test E metabolized
Day 5: 35mg 1st inject 35mg 2nd inject Total 70mg metabolized
Day 6: 17.5mg 1st inject 35 mg 2nd inject Total: 52.5mg metabolized
Day 7: 17.5mg 1st inject 35 mg 2nd inject Total 52.5mg

Week total metabolized: 315mg Test E, shy 385mg of target 700mg/week!!!

Let's see how it would work if we frontloaded the Testosterone Enanthate aiming for a 100mg/day metabolic rate for the 700mg/week target.

Week 1 Day 1 Inject 850mg Test E
Day 1: Metabolize 85mg
Day 2: Metabolize 85mg
Day 3: Metabolize 85mg
Day 4: 85mg from 1st inject and injecting 350mg as usual metabolizing 35mg total 120 mg
Day 5: 85mg from 1st 35mg total 120mg
Day 6: 42.5mg 1st inject 35mg 2nd total 77.5mg
Day 7: 42.5mg 1st inject 35mg 2nd total 77.5mg

Week total metabolized: 650mg Test E shy only 50mg of target week total 700mg/week!!



To establish the amount you should inject/ingest on the first day of frontloading you can use a the following formula to calculate the value. It is only the first

day you inject this amount. After that you follow your regular injection schedule.

Weekly amount/7xHalf-life in days + regular inject amount = Frontload


Example, I am going to do 12 weeks of 500mgs Test E/week, planning on injecting 250 mg Monday and Thursday. How much should I frontload? Using the formula I plug in

my values.

500/7 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

71 x 5 + 250 = Frontload

357 + 250 = Frontload

607 = Frontload

Rounding it up or down to nearest and most convenient number works well as it doesn't need to be that exact.


To assist in your usage of the formula I will include some half-lives. Note, there is a slight variation of half-lives depending on the source. The fact that it is

measured in days and not hours grants a +-12 hour variation which isn't too accurate either.



Testosterone Enthantate: 5 days
Testosterone Cypionate : 5 days(The difference between Test E and Test C is rather trivial and this is where the aforementioned -+12hour difference comes into play).
Deca: 6 days (I thought it was a little higher but most medical literature state 6 days)




Also I wanted to incorporate a cheat sheet for the most common ones and those who don't want to read through all this wall of text and learn how to do it. Going to

list the Compound and Weekly dosage you wish to do and then the amount you should inject assuming an equal amount is injected twice a week.

Test E/C: 400mg/week Frontload: 485mg on the first day only.
Test E/C: 500 mg/week Frontload: 607 mg on the first day only.
Test E/C: 600 mg/week Frontload: 728 mg on the first day only.


For frontloading SERMs You can either follow a double dose protocol which is often recommended although it isn't most often recognized as a frontload.

Clomid(Clomiphene) and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen ) have a 5 day half life.

So for Nolvadex you would ingest 120mg the first day only and 20mg/day after that.
Clomid 300mg first day and 50mg/day after that.


If gyno flares up I have found it very crucial to frontload nolva and increase your AI!


I hope this sheds some light on how to frontload as I see it to be very beneficial as it keeps your cycle length down amount other things. For a beginner it may not be needed you may think, I would argue that having a cycle longer than it should be or waiting for esters to kick in isn't needed neither! If you understand how it works there is no need to be scared of injecting a high dose the first day.

You can google different steroid calculators to get a better understanding of it as well!


Thoughts?

[Lunk1]

I would agree that frontloading is not advance but I would not call it novice either. Perhaps it is a more intermediate process.

For most that come on here day after day (the begginers) I think that the KISS method best serves them. For someone with a cpl cycles under there belt that has a grasp on what they are doing...I agree it's an effective technique

[ghettoboyd]

I would agree that frontloading is not advance but I would not call it novice either. Perhaps it is a more intermediate process.

For most that come on here day after day (the begginers) I think that the KISS method best serves them. For someone with a cpl cycles under there belt that has a grasp on what they are doing...I agree it's an effective technique

frontloading has never done nothing for me but make the sides appear quicker so i wont do it again...i dont understand the hurry here just pin and wait it will slowly build up and do it thing...if you just want to get to it quicker then use prop imho...

[Times Roman]

I would agree that frontloading is not advance but I would not call it novice either. Perhaps it is a more intermediate process.

For most that come on here day after day (the begginers) I think that the KISS method best serves them. For someone with a cpl cycles under there belt that has a grasp on what they are doing...I agree it's an effective technique

for the beginners, please keep it simple. Hard enough to get them to focus on nutrition and proper form in the gym. Granted, front loading is easy enough, so I agree with you.

Additionally...

if it's the same substance, that's called front loading,
but if another substance, that's called kickstarting.

[jimmyinkedup]

Nice post. Whether u agree with frontloading or not this very clearly explians it and shows whats happening. I always frontloaded my pct meds - as most have done and didnt even realize it. ie nolva 40/20/20/20

[Sworder]

Nice post. Whether u agree with frontloading or not this very clearly explians it and shows whats happening. I always frontloaded my pct meds - as most have done and didnt even realize it. ie nolva 40/20/20/20

A lot of people do but they don't do the same with their Testosterone Enanthate which has the same half life. I believe that if a trend which included a frontload or "double dose frontload" first week on the Testosterone Enanthate would yield favorable results.

I understand that most new guys are already being immersed with so much information it is difficult to take in more. I like to keep the options open though in case they are susceptible to more information.

[ghettoboyd]

Nice post. Whether u agree with frontloading or not this very clearly explians it and shows whats happening. I always frontloaded my pct meds - as most have done and didnt even realize it. ie nolva 40/20/20/20

ahhh jimmy good point bro i never realy though about it till just now, thanx lol

[Lunk1]

A lot of people do but they don't do the same with their Testosterone Enanthate which has the same half life. I believe that if a trend which included a frontload or "double dose frontload" first week on the Testosterone Enanthate would yield favorable results.

I understand that most new guys are already being immersed with so much information it is difficult to take in more. I like to keep the options open though in case they are susceptible to more information.

True there is the rare gem in here that is new but just "gets" it! It is def. advise I would keep in the holster for the exceptions.

[dec11]

nicely explained post Sworder.

[BBJT200]

Excellent post. Thank you for this valuable information! Well put together.

[mojo999]

Excellent Sworder! U r the man!!

[MickeyKnox]

Sworder,

awesome post man! thanks for doing the work on that and sharing it.

Nice post. Whether u agree with frontloading or not this very clearly explians it and shows whats happening. I always frontloaded my pct meds - as most have done and didnt even realize it. ie nolva 40/20/20/20

never knew that Jimmy. too cool..

[Sworder]

Frontload for faster results!

[Buster Brown]

Nice post, thank you.

[600@50]

Good job man. Thanks for sharing it.

[noon]

Interesting but honestly a bit over my head at this time

[Sworder]

If you have any questions be sure to ask! I will try to help you understand it better; whether you choose to implement it or not is up to you.

[kelkel]

First time I saw this. Nicely done Sworder!

kel

[warmouth]

Such a good thread! Sticky time! I know this is going to be a stupid question, as I know you have explained everything in detail. But lets say I was planning on running a test/NanDeca cycle at a test to nanDeca ratio of 500/300 weekly, What should be injected the first day? I know it is right in front of me, but being 2 different esters, I am confusing myself.

[Sworder]

I am assuming you mean Testosterone Enanthate which has a 5 day half-life. So then it would be 600mg Test E the first day, and then 450mg Deca (assuming you are injecting the deca twice a week).

It's fairly easy to calculate the frontload(lets do it without calculator just rounding up/down) once you understand the concept.

First you take the dose, for simplicity, we will use 500mg Test E/week.

Then you figure out the daily amount that would equate to. 500 divided my 7. Quick math, 500 divided by 7 is 70something. Then take the daily amount 70 and multiply by the half-life(5 days) and you will get 350. Then just add that to your regular dose(250mg) and you get 600mg!

It takes a while to grasp it but once you do it becomes a superb tool.

[warmouth]

I am assuming you mean Testosterone Enanthate which has a 5 day half-life. So then it would be 600mg Test E the first day, and then 450mg Deca (assuming you are injecting the deca twice a week).

It's fairly easy to calculate the frontload(lets do it without calculator just rounding up/down) once you understand the concept.

First you take the dose, for simplicity, we will use 500mg Test E/week.

Then you figure out the daily amount that would equate to. 500 divided my 7. Quick math, 500 divided by 7 is 70something. Then take the daily amount 70 and multiply by the half-life(5 days) and you will get 350. Then just add that to your regular dose(250mg) and you get 600mg!

It takes a while to grasp it but once you do it becomes a superb tool.

Ah! So I only use 600mgs on the first pin, say monday. Then on thursday just go with the 250mgs and stick to that the rest of the cycle? And the Deca the same(only 450mgs on the first pin, monday, then thursday stick with the 150mgs protocol?)?

[Wazz]

Sworder, this is a good thread. I'm about 75 days till start of test e cycle (all gear on hand save hgh as I'm contemplating long term use for the "good sides") & I ordered enough test e to ensure that I could frontload.
This wasn't new to me & I figured when I was within a few days of start I would post my cycle but it's simply what the vets have recommended already save front loading. W/ the extra vials of test e (only need 24) & having 30 in hand I looked into front loading a while back. I'm curious on where you found the half life info as I'd like to research it a Bit more.

I also have frontload planned for PCT yet haven't found any reason to frontload AIs (other than a higher 1st dose) to cope with the access test e. Let me know your thoughts (anyone). Although this being my 1st cycle, my 2 doctors are on board & I'll be getting 3 full panel blood/hormone blood tests. They want to have before data, then data at 6 weeks (which I really want to see) & finally 60 days after last pin.

Any thought would be great. I'm highly considering Hgh & have a few sources for my other stuff, but when it comes to hgh I'm still working on a reliable and competitive link (please dont post sources). If you have more than 6 months in time using hgh feel free to pm if you want to help out (on just that). I have Crohn's Disease & if you read my profile you can figure why hgh would benefit me. I'd just like to hear real world experience. I'll start a thread on that later sometime. No hurry.

Sworder, good stuff! Thx

[warmouth]

Oh, and it is test c, not that that matters. I normally use Test P(my favorite), just wanting a break from all that metal insertion. Id like to run a 1x weekly with everything, but I know thats not the best way.

[Juced_porkchop]

even with teste/cyp hits its PEEK per dose in only 3-4 days.
I still think front loading is not a good idea myself.

[Juced_porkchop]

frontloading has never done nothing for me but make the sides appear quicker so i wont do it again...i dont understand the hurry here just pin and wait it will slowly build up and do it thing...if you just want to get to it quicker then use prop imho...

thats how i feel also


Great thread though.

[human project]

Nice post man... I've always jumped back and forth between front loading and even starting at a half dose and after 2-3weeks bumping up and then another 2-3wks later bump again. I also only ever add one new product a week. I do this because I believe any change to your daily program will result in close to a maximum amount of gains. That being said every time I add a product I get some type of results even if only psychological "which IMHO counts for a lot. I got this idea from Jay Cutler when he was talking about a supplement régime. I would really like to see some clinical studies done. Too bad there's not clinical studies that show direct improvements in muscle and strength on particular cycles with double blind studies with 1000' of applicants. I'd sign up to help test for sure...

[Bigshotvictoria]

Question:

With no working knowledge of chemistry, I know nothing about the bonding of the ester to the hormone. I've always assumed that different hormones with the same ester would have the same half life; is this true, or is the bonding of ester to hormone different between each product, causing a different half life between different steroids with the same ester?

Notably I'm thinking of steroids such as test e/mast e/tren e

[freddy1418]

Nice post Sworder

[Bigshotvictoria]

Question:

With no working knowledge of chemistry, I know nothing about the bonding of the ester to the hormone. I've always assumed that different hormones with the same ester would have the same half life; is this true, or is the bonding of ester to hormone different between each product, causing a different half life between different steroids with the same ester?

Notably I'm thinking of steroids such as test e/mast e/tren e

Bump

[MickeyKnox]

Question:

With no working knowledge of chemistry, I know nothing about the bonding of the ester to the hormone. I've always assumed that different hormones with the same ester would have the same half life; is this true, or is the bonding of ester to hormone different between each product, causing a different half life between different steroids with the same ester?

Notably I'm thinking of steroids such as test e/mast e/tren e

Im willing to bet a box full of 23's they're all the same.

The Enanthate ester is the same for all compounds. The various compound associated or attached to the ester determines how androgenic or anabolic they are. This is how i understand it. Someone can correct me if im wrong.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Im willing to bet a box full of 23's they're all the same.

The Enanthate ester is the same for all compounds. The various compound associated or attached to the ester determines how androgenic or anabolic they are. This is how i understand it. Someone can correct me if im wrong.

Yes, this is fairly basic. What I don't know is if the structure of different hormones has an effect on the bonding of the ester to the hormone, and if this is the case is there a measurable difference in time required for the body to remove the ester?

Of course it's broadly regarded as solid broscience that the same ester is the same half life, I've also heard that tren E may clear faster than test e, despite both having the enanthate ester.

[MickeyKnox]

Ahh I see. No idea really. But even if i did, im not sure how that in formation would be beneficial to me. ?

[t-dogg]

Great read. Ill be doing this actually on my next cycle.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Ahh I see. No idea really. But even if i did, im not sure how that in formation would be beneficial to me. ?

Ha, ya I suppose even if it did make a difference it would be so small as to not really being important. It's just something I don't know anything about, which makes me want to know!!!

[Sworder]

Ah! So I only use 600mgs on the first pin, say monday. Then on thursday just go with the 250mgs and stick to that the rest of the cycle? And the Deca the same(only 450mgs on the first pin, monday, then thursday stick with the 150mgs protocol?)?

Yes, you got it!

Oh, and it is test c, not that that matters. I normally use Test P(my favorite), just wanting a break from all that metal insertion. Id like to run a 1x weekly with everything, but I know thats not the best way.

If you want to run it once a week then you take the loading dose 350+500mg so 850mg Test E and 550mg Deca the first day.

Don't be scared, I have frontloaded 800 mg of Tren E with a gram of Deca. Doesn't hit as hard as you would think because you will only metabolize half of that amount, in 5 days.

[Sworder]

Sworder, this is a good thread. I'm about 75 days till start of test e cycle (all gear on hand save hgh as I'm contemplating long term use for the "good sides") & I ordered enough test e to ensure that I could frontload.
This wasn't new to me & I figured when I was within a few days of start I would post my cycle but it's simply what the vets have recommended already save front loading. W/ the extra vials of test e (only need 24) & having 30 in hand I looked into front loading a while back. I'm curious on where you found the half life info as I'd like to research it a Bit more.

I also have frontload planned for PCT yet haven't found any reason to frontload AIs (other than a higher 1st dose) to cope with the access test e. Let me know your thoughts (anyone). Although this being my 1st cycle, my 2 doctors are on board & I'll be getting 3 full panel blood/hormone blood tests. They want to have before data, then data at 6 weeks (which I really want to see) & finally 60 days after last pin.

Any thought would be great. I'm highly considering Hgh & have a few sources for my other stuff, but when it comes to hgh I'm still working on a reliable and competitive link (please dont post sources). If you have more than 6 months in time using hgh feel free to pm if you want to help out (on just that). I have Crohn's Disease & if you read my profile you can figure why hgh would benefit me. I'd just like to hear real world experience. I'll start a thread on that later sometime. No hurry.

Sworder, good stuff! Thx

Personally, I frontload SERMs the first day(Nolva 120mg Clomid 300mg) instead of the first week as most do with 40/20/20/20 Nolva 100/50/50/50 Clomid. Either is fine. You can frontload your testosterone , or whatever else you are running, in the same fashion by splitting the loading dose if you are "scared" of injecting too much or whatever the case. Clomid/Nolva have a five day half life and frontloading Nolva/Raloxifene when gyno occurs is most important! I wouldn't wait for the levels to build when you can jump to the desired levels by frontloading.

I can find some sources for the half life if you feel the need,. There are always going to be differences in half-life findings. Depending on injection area among other things. 5 days for the enanthate ester is what I go by, as interpreted by studies as well as Bill Roberts.

[mwilkinson]

great post

[Atomini]

Guys... some clarification here... a lot of the half lives I see people posting are wrong. For example, someone above posted that Testosterone Enanthate 's half life is 5 days. It's actually about 10 days. Nolvadex 's half life is not 5 days, it's actually 14. I am posting this list here for all future reference:

ORALS:

Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone)
8 to 9 hours

Anavar (oxandrolone)
9 hours

Dianabol (methandrostenolone , methandienone)
4.5 to 6 hours

Methyltestosterone
4 days

Winstrol (stanozolol )
9 hours

Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone) 9.5 hours

Turinabol (Tbol) 16 hours

INJECTABLES:

Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate)
15 days

Equipoise
14 days

Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days

Primobolan (methenolone enanthate ) 10.5 days

Sustanon or Omnadren
15 to 18 days

Testosterone Cypionate
12 days

Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days

Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days

Testosterone Suspension 1 day

Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day

ANCILLARIES

Arimidex 3 days

Clenbuterol 1.5 - 3 days

Clomid 5 days

Cytadren 6 hours

Ephedrine 6 hours

T3 10 hours

Letrozole 5 hours

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) 14 days

[austinite]

Glad someone else understands the half life of decanoate.

[Atomini]

Also, individual esters:

Formate 1.5 days

Acetate 3 days

Propionate 4.5 days

Phenylpropionate 4.5 days

Butyrate 6 days

Valerate 7.5 days

Hexanoate 9 days

Caproate 9 days

Isocaproate 9 days

Heptanoate 10.5 days

Enanthate 10.5 days

Octanoate 12 days

Cypionate 12 days

Nonanoate 13.5 days

Decanoate 15 days

Undecanoate 16.5 days

Remember to get your half-lives correct! This isn't something you want to make a mistake on. There is a HUGE difference between someone mistakingly thinking Testosterone Enanthate having a 5 day half-life, frontloading as such, and not realizing it actually has a 10 day half-life (give or take a day or two). Also remember half lives are not EXACTLY the numbers listed (hence why I said 'give or take a day or two' for Enanthate). Half lives may be 2 days shorter or 2 days longer than the listed half-life, which can be dependant on the user's body, metabolism, diet, and so on and so forth.