losing all my gains

So I'm on about day 5 of nolva/clomid pct after my test e 500 dbol 50 12 week cycle. I'm 5'9 started at 165 12% got up to 180. I've been steady losing weight since last week now down almost ten lbs. Apparently all my water weight is shedding, there's even noticeably more definition in my quads.I was expecting to lose some of my gains but not this much this fast! I know I'm not a big guy to begin with but I was feeling pretty good mid cycle...

Is this normal? What did I do wrong? Not very pleased right now. it's like I can see myself shrinking and It's messing with my head, especially since my hormones are imbalanced right now. Just trying to push through it and get some input from the more experienced guys in here. I want to learn what I can do to keep more of my gains next time.

From what I keep hearing most the gains with dbol are water weight. I've been able to keep almost all my gains so far and I'm almost 2 months post cycle. My diet is still on point so that may be why.

Well 1st off at 5 9 and 165 you are on the light side.This tells me your diet was off.So I am assuming this carried on thru your cycle.Now if you dont feed new muscle you will lose it.I suggest you have your diet checked out in the diet section.

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Originally Posted by songdog

Well 1st off at 5 9 and 165 you are on the light side.This tells me your diet was off.So I am assuming this carried on thru your cycle.Now if you dont feed new muscle you will lose it.I suggest you have your diet checked out in the diet section.

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Yup^^^you may have ti increase cals some and risk a small amount of fat to aviod the loss. Are you still eating above your tdee?

Ya I figured it was a diet thing. And yes I did just recently re evaluate my diet in the diet section. It needed a lil adjusting because I had a lil too much fat in it, but the calories are there. I'm eating about 500-600 over per day.

and the workout and water intake has remained the same??

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

and the workout and water intake has remained the same??

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Training is the same. My water intake may have decreased slightly...

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Originally Posted by hyphy_beast

Training is the same. My water intake may have decreased slightly...

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Remember what muscle is made up of????

I mean my diet could've been better mid cycle, I could've been more strict. At one point I slacked a lil and cheated more than I should've but nothing terrible. I still got the protein and calorie, just not so clean. But I was gaining and happy with my progress...

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

Remember what muscle is made up of????

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Hmmm lol, right...

Muscle is made up primarely of water. Dbol causes water retention in those muscles, then you go off dbol AND lower your water intake. Bound to happen.
As you said you gain 15 lbs...you should be happy if you gain 5 of it

Where did you see your gains?

Did your strength go up?

I kind of mastered cycling incorrectly on my first run.

I gained 60 pounds on my cycle. About 45 of it was crap(water and fat).

How is your diet? What's your protein intake per day along with everything else.

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

Muscle is made up primarely of water. Dbol causes water retention in those muscles, then you go off dbol AND lower your water intake. Bound to happen.
As you said you gain 15 lbs...you should be happy if you gain 5 of it

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Ya that makes Alot of sense. I mean I am happy with the definition. I can tell it's mostly water because I can clearly see the definition in my quads better. My triceps improved greatly over the cycle as well they have good cut all the way down to my elbows. It's just the false size and number on the scale that's messing with my head.

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Originally Posted by < >

Where did you see your gains?

Did your strength go up?

I kind of mastered cycling incorrectly on my first run.

I gained 60 pounds on my cycle. About 45 of it was crap(water and fat).

How is your diet? What's your protein intake per day along with everything else.

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The place I noticed the biggest mass gains were in my arms, which is my weakest point I believe. My sleeves fit looser on my bis, and even my gf said my forearms looked skinny. Yes I had good strength gains, especially with the dbol I felt like an animal! I'm still stronger but obviously not as my peak...

Diet had to of been a lil weak. I wasn't as strict as I should've been. Something I only recently started doing was getting all of my protein from real food, as before I was drinking 2-3 shakes a day, thinking I could get easy calories :/ now I'm only using one after training.

At 165 pounds why don't you try to bulk up a bit before using steroids, when i was 19 i wanted to use steroids to bad, but the guy that formed me in bodybuilding told me otherwise. I followed all is advise i ate a lot and 10 months later i was at 195 pounds no steroids nothing.

I would try to gain weight naturally before going the steroid way. Now i use steroids i am a lot older too 40 right now but i have reached my natrural limitation a long time ago. I am still a natural 220 pounder.

Last year to help with my prolotherapy treatment i went on a deca masteron test E cycle 200mg per week, i gained so much fat and water, started at 217 went up to 261 in 20 weeks, after that my body came back down slow i was stuck at 240 took T3 and dieted down to 220.

Your body will adapt to the new weight and if you to it naturally you will not have to be concern about losing gains, the fat you will have gained while getting bigger can be lost after.

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Originally Posted by yannick35

At 165 pounds why don't you try to bulk up a bit before using steroids, when i was 19 i wanted to use steroids to bad, but the guy that formed me in bodybuilding told me otherwise. I followed all is advise i ate a lot and 10 months later i was at 195 pounds no steroids nothing.

I would try to gain weight naturally before going the steroid way. Now i use steroids i am a lot older too 40 right now but i have reached my natrural limitation a long time ago. I am still a natural 220 pounder.

Last year to help with my prolotherapy treatment i went on a deca masteron test E cycle 200mg per week, i gained so much fat and water, started at 217 went up to 261 in 20 weeks, after that my body came back down slow i was stuck at 240 took T3 and dieted down to 220.

Your body will adapt to the new weight and if you to it naturally you will not have to be concern about losing gains, the fat you will have gained while getting bigger can be lost after.

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Ya I'm gonna give it another 110% effort naturally before I do another cycle. If I do it again I wanna do it for real. I've always been a hard gainer, but I know with determination, commitment, and the right diet I can make some improvements. Thanks :)

Its the best thing because if you don't break the foundation first you will always back track, i started to train with a guy my age back in the late eighties we where both 19 at the time, i lost track of the guy and saw him again in another gym at 21, he was huge, he was on steroid and not afraid to admit it, i was 204 pounds at that time natural. I saw him again at 25 i was 210 by then natural he was skinny has hell, he did cycle after cycle but never took the time to natrually build is potential. I saw him that last time at 29, i was 220, my arms where 17 inch and a half natural he kept asking me if i was on steroids. I actually did my first cycle after that but most of it was fake.

Food can be an amazing drug. Good luck and don't give up guys on here are pure gold amazing members with amazing help and comments

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Originally Posted by yannick35

Its the best thing because if you don't break the foundation first you will always back track, i started to train with a guy my age back in the late eighties we where both 19 at the time, i lost track of the guy and saw him again in another gym at 21, he was huge, he was on steroid and not afraid to admit it, i was 204 pounds at that time natural. I saw him again at 25 i was 210 by then natural he was skinny has hell, he did cycle after cycle but never took the time to natrually build is potential. I saw him that last time at 29, i was 220, my arms where 17 inch and a half natural he kept asking me if i was on steroids. I actually did my first cycle after that but most of it was fake.

Food can be an amazing drug. Good luck and don't give up guys on here are pure gold amazing members with amazing help and comments

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Now just because I've done a cycle already, as long as my natural production hasn't been affected long term, that doesn't mean my natural potential will be limited right?

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Originally Posted by hyphy_beast

Now just because I've done a cycle already, as long as my natural production hasn't been affected long term, that doesn't mean my natural potential will be limited right?

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No. Natty potential is really more about genetics. Some ppl have them to be NFL athletes or Pro BB and MOST don't. Your body at the end of the day is limited by it's genetic capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

No. Natty potential is really more about genetics. Some ppl have them to be NFL athletes or Pro BB and MOST don't. Your body at the end of the day is limited by it's genetic capabilities.

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Ya I can see that. I've always been real lean, my dad is lean. It's hard for me to gain size but fairly easy to cut up. I've adjusted my training accordingly as well. Thanks again guys. At least I've learned a lot. When I plan to cycle again in the future I'll be sure I've naturally peaked all the way, and do it the right way, no sorry cuts on diet etc. :)

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Originally Posted by hyphy_beast

Ya I can see that. I've always been real lean, my dad is lean. It's hard for me to gain size but fairly easy to cut up. I've adjusted my training accordingly as well. Thanks again guys. At least I've learned a lot. When I plan to cycle again in the future I'll be sure I've naturally peaked all the way, and do it the right way, no sorry cuts on diet etc. :)

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Go get em tiger grrrrrr ;)

My father god bless is soul was 5 foot 7 and 135 pounds my mother 5 feet 1 and 140 pounds LOL, i am 5 feet 10 and 230 pounds.

Genetics can be broken, i was very skinny until i was 19 years old.

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Originally Posted by yannick35

My father god bless is soul was 5 foot 7 and 135 pounds my mother 5 feet 1 and 140 pounds LOL, i am 5 feet 10 and 230 pounds.

Genetics can be broken, i was very skinny until i was 19 years old.

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You can't BREAK genetics. If it were possible to SUSTAIN growth past genetic limits we would all be pro BB

hey OP i didn't see you mention hcg, were you using that as part of your cycle?

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Originally Posted by yannick35

My father god bless is soul was 5 foot 7 and 135 pounds my mother 5 feet 1 and 140 pounds LOL, i am 5 feet 10 and 230 pounds.

Genetics can be broken, i was very skinny until i was 19 years old.

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your genetics dont mean necessarily what you start with.. non of the IFBB pros "broke" their genetics.. they are that big because their genetics enabled them to get there.. maybe your dad would have responded to AAS and ballooned to 200lbs.. but he doesn't know because i'm assuming he didn't try.

Same with my dad, he's a fat 190... you can claim he has bad genetics but he never lifted a weight in his life.. most pros started as string beans but they looked at weights and grew muscle.. your genetics mean both what you start out as.. and how you respond..

my genetics had me at 135 at about 15% bf.. 10 yrs later now i'm only about 170.. but it's at about 9-10% bf.. and i've maxed out my genetic potential (been here for yrs)

the funny thing is ppl on this site say i'm not ready.. but if they saw a pic of me before my cut at a fat 190.. they would tell me i'm golden lol *too much put into bodyweight and not quality of bodyweight*

end of soft rant

which is why I won't run any oral besides var

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Originally Posted by kmms

hey OP i didn't see you mention hcg, were you using that as part of your cycle?

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yes, but only for the weeks of about 8-12 right about until I started pct. 250iu bi weekly. I understand now I should've started much earlier in the cycle but apparently I was following an outdated protocol. I also ran ldex about the same time frame as hcg at .25mg eod

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Originally Posted by Times Roman

which is why I won't run any oral besides var

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How about tbol since there's much less water retention than dbol?

I am really following the advice of the father time juicers on here. Test is best. . . . All orals effect your liver in a negative way. I sure do love the idea of getting sliced up with a fat run of Anavar. But, is it worth it? I approximately gained 10-15 pounds of LBM on my test only cycle. Even with a horrid diet and a workout regimen of a damn near noob.

I will run a test only cycle here shortly. I really want to give myself some good time in between cycles to get the bet effect from the cycle.

No more BS see food diets and no more half ass workouts.


Later on in about 2-3 cycles I will hit some other compounds with test. But, I personally do not see a need to run orals. And this post really reinforces that again.

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Originally Posted by < >

I am really following the advice of the father time juicers on here. Test is best. . . . All orals effect your liver in a negative way. I sure do love the idea of getting sliced up with a fat run of Anavar. But, is it worth it? I approximately gained 10-15 pounds of LBM on my test only cycle. Even with a horrid diet and a workout regimen of a damn near noob.

I will run a test only cycle here shortly. I really want to give myself some good time in between cycles to get the bet effect from the cycle.

No more BS see food diets and no more half ass workouts.

Later on in about 2-3 cycles I will hit some other compounds with test. But, I personally do not see a need to run orals. And this post really reinforces that again.

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Ya it's really too bad too cause damn that dbol was great while it lasted! Haha! my strength just sky rocketed and I was so pumped and vascular like a gorilla in the gym :) Oh well, was def. a learning experience. I have a lot to work on and some decent time to prepare naturallyand recover before i try another cycle.

and get your balls to both drop :)

im not going to give you a 'starting off weight' lecture, but expect to lose the majority of yours gains every cycle mate, its mainly water you're dropping, if you keep a few lb's of actual muscle each time then you're doing well.

dont try lifting what you were on cycle, hit lighter higher reps now.

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

and get your balls to both drop :)

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I'm working on that lol

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Originally Posted by dec11

im not going to give you a 'starting off weight' lecture, but expect to lose the majority of yours gains every cycle mate, its mainly water you're dropping, if you keep a few lb's of actual muscle each time then you're doing well.

dont try lifting what you were on cycle, hit lighter higher reps now.

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Ok thanks. How many reps should I be targeting? 8-12? Sets? Exercises?

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Originally Posted by hyphy_beast

Ok thanks. How many reps should I be targeting? 8-12? Sets? Exercises?

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im not typing out a whole prog for you lol.

your norm routine, just lighten it up a bit, 10 reps is perfect. focus more on a 'burn' than all out heavy blast. your body will be going into recovery mode as will immune system etc so it doesnt need pulverised at this time

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Originally Posted by hyphy_beast

How about tbol since there's much less water retention than dbol?

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nope. won't even try it. i like var because the gains are slow and gradual, and stick around post cycle. plus it's not very toxic on the liver.

Mostly i just like test and a few other compounds.

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Originally Posted by dec11

im not typing out a whole prog for you lol.

your norm routine, just lighten it up a bit, 10 reps is perfect. focus more on a 'burn' than all out heavy blast. your body will be going into recovery mode as will immune system etc so it doesnt need pulverised at this time

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haha no, I wouldn't expect you to. I just meant as far as numbers go. But ok, will do thanks