I read,after a cycle you should expect to lose 90% of your gains, what's the point?

[gixxerboy1]

I would be very interested in getting back on the topic, 951thompson got a good tread going on that sadly degenerated.

I would also like to know if on cycle i gain like 2 inches (figure of speach) on my arms, after cycle if i still train and eat well if i can keep some of theses gains.

Depends on a lot. I would expect to loose some

[t-dogg]

Id like to see the list of vets on here that said this Bullshi t. I will never consider myself a expert because Im always learning. If you lose that much weight off cycle, something is wrong OR you are past your natty limit.


This last cycle I completed Im now back to my starting weight, BUT im about 3% less in bodyfat. So I made a big jump imo with gaining muscle and losing fat.


Just my two cents...

[951thompson]

Id like to see the list of vets on here that said this Bullshi t. I will never consider myself a expert because Im always learning. If you lose that much weight off cycle, something is wrong OR you are past your natty limit.

This last cycle I completed Im now back to my starting weight, BUT im about 3% less in bodyfat. So I made a big jump imo with gaining muscle and losing fat.

Just my two cents...

This is the thread I read and am referring too

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ink-gains-stay.....

[MickeyKnox]

^^ that was authored by Dec. need i say more..

[951thompson]

I would be very interested in getting back on the topic, 951thompson got a good tread going on that sadly degenerated.

I would also like to know if on cycle i gain like 2 inches (figure of speach) on my arms, after cycle if i still train and eat well if i can keep some of theses gains.

Thanks man

[DanB]

Id like to see the list of vets on here that said this Bullshi t. I will never consider myself a expert because Im always learning. If you lose that much weight off cycle, something is wrong OR you are past your natty limit.


This last cycle I completed Im now back to my starting weight, BUT im about 3% less in bodyfat. So I made a big jump imo with gaining muscle and losing fat.


Just my two cents...

they were saying about when your past genetic potential, not losing 90% of gains from every cycle

[t-dogg]

This is the thread I read and am referring too

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ink-gains-stay.....

Great. One person who is passed there natty limit saying this. This just proves what I just said.


Again 99% of people on here ARE NOT at there limit. So yes you should be able to keep and hold gains. Fat loss and muscle gains.

[yannick35]

Id like to see the list of vets on here that said this Bullshi t. I will never consider myself a expert because Im always learning. If you lose that much weight off cycle, something is wrong OR you are past your natty limit.


This last cycle I completed Im now back to my starting weight, BUT im about 3% less in bodyfat. So I made a big jump imo with gaining muscle and losing fat.


Just my two cents...

What cycle did you do t-dogg this is what i am looking for. Thanks for posting

[t-dogg]

What cycle did you do t-dogg this is what i am looking for. Thanks for posting

This was a basic cycle. I ran sust 350 @500mg's for 16wks. I also ran anavar for 6wks @60mgs.


Keep in mind diet and cardio are key.

[yannick35]

This was a basic cycle. I ran sust 350 @500mg's for 16wks. I also ran anavar for 6wks @60mgs.


Keep in mind diet and cardio are key.

Yes i know diet is in check right now cardio is light walking but getting there. Very interesting cycle thanks for posting.

[swollix]

I'm 5'11". When I started working out I was 110 lbs. I graduated highschool at 145 lbs. I got up to 170 naturally and did my first cycle. After cycle I was 183 lbs. then dropped to 180 after PCT. I got up to 190 in the next year naturally. So that BS about not keeping gains is not true. Of all the people I know in person who cycled, the only ones who lost all their gains stopped working out completely usually or their training and diet changed drastically. I am 203 lbs. now, currently in week 5 of my second cycle. Hope to keep above 200 after PCT, but we'll see. I don't think I'm near my genetic max yet.

[951thompson]

Yes i know diet is in check right now cardio is light walking but getting there. Very interesting cycle thanks for posting.

Have you heard about slow fasted cardio? really slow jog or brisk walk (the fat burning zone) only works fasted tho first thing in the morning.

[t-dogg]

Yes i know diet is in check right now cardio is light walking but getting there. Very interesting cycle thanks for posting.

What is your weight and BF%?

[FireManDan]

My reasons.. Pu$$y and calendar. Food for thought

[dec11]

Austinite, I just absolutely have to say, your abs are to die for...I'm totally jealous and a little bit in love <3

oh dear lol. Aust, you have a stalker LOL

[Sworder]

IMO, gains surpassing genetic potential/what your body can support hormonally will disappear. Your body can't support it, simple.

If your body can support it naturally then you may keep the gains provided your diet and training is on par.


The body doesn't know what created the muscle. It's all muscle to the body, it can't differentiate from muscle "made from tren " or muscle from your own natural production. It knows what it can support hormonally though and if you don't have the hormones you will lose your muscle

[dec11]

Great. One person who is passed there natty limit saying this. This just proves what I just said.


Again 99% of people on here ARE NOT at there limit. So yes you should be able to keep and hold gains. Fat loss and muscle gains.

I'm no aas vet, but 22yrs training and a sport science degree tells me all I need to know about training and the 3rd rate muscle aas builds. I'm getn off this subject because it's becoming an annoying game of tennis.

And btw, plenty of exp guys here will agree with me on diminishing gains from steroids

[gonzo6183]

eh, carbs arent neccessary and i would say they are better off excluded. All they do is bloat you. Keto proved carbs suck and people can keep muscle the same on Keto. I hate carbs

Looking at your photo, you should NEVER avoid carbs, you NEED them and you need a lot of them. Might want to hit the gym too

[Sharmthetics]

Fairly sure most shorter people are mesomorph's. Wide shoulders, narrow hips etc. Taller people would most likely be an ectomorph, such as myself, with narrower shoulders but still a narrow waist but just not a mesomorph unfortunately. Sucks balls, I would do anything to be a mesomorph.

[t-dogg]

I'm no aas vet, but 22yrs training and a sport science degree tells me all I need to know about training and the 3rd rate muscle aas builds. I'm getn off this subject because it's becoming an annoying game of tennis.

And btw, plenty of exp guys here will agree with me on diminishing gains from steroids

What exp guys on here? Again if you are not at your limit, there is no reason you cant keep most of the gains you make from cycle/cycling. Yes gains will slow, because yet again you are getting closer to natty limits.




And on a funny note everyone. I have a very close friend who uses gear. Hes 6'0 and he started at 110lbs @2.6BF% "yes thats correct on bf%" and has since made it all the way up to 250lbs now. He holds that weight give or take 5-10lbs now. For thos that feel you cant keep gains and make hugh jumps in weight. diet, training, and of course genetics play roles in this.

P.S. his diet sucks really. Eats whatever he wants whenever he wants. Damn genetics...

[Sharmthetics]

What exp guys on here? Again if you are not at your limit, there is no reason you cant keep most of the gains you make from cycle/cycling. Yes gains will slow, because yet again you are getting closer to natty limits.




And on a funny note everyone. I have a very close friend who uses gear. Hes 6'0 and he started at 110lbs @2.6BF% "yes thats correct on bf%" and has since made it all the way up to 250lbs now. He holds that weight give or take 5-10lbs now. For thos that feel you cant keep gains and make hugh jumps in weight. diet, training, and of course genetics play roles in this.

P.S. his diet sucks really. Eats whatever he wants whenever he wants. Damn genetics...

Surely he's not below ten percent body fat and shredded? Your metabolism will catch up to you with age if you constantly have a shit diet.

[t-dogg]

Surely he's not below ten percent body fat and shredded? Your metabolism will catch up to you with age if you constantly have a shit diet.

My guess would be around 12%BF now year round. He has abs still, even with the amount of food he eats.

[bigmatt33]

It makes sence to me that if a person if past their genetic potential they would loose almost all of their gains.

For the regular person I think they don't train as hard and their diet isn't as good when not on cycle. I know I have been guilty of this when I was younger. I thought what was the point of training hard and eating clean when I wasn't going to get any bigger anyway. My goal should have been to stay the same size but I was young and dumb. I see this all the time with people.

[yannick35]

This was a basic cycle. I ran sust 350 @500mg's for 16wks. I also ran anavar for 6wks @60mgs.


Keep in mind diet and cardio are key.

I really like the long cycle low dose last year i was on a 20 week deca testo and masteron at 200mg per week to fix back pain.

[yannick35]

Have you heard about slow fasted cardio? really slow jog or brisk walk (the fat burning zone) only works fasted tho first thing in the morning.

Trying to fast for 14-16 hours first few meals try to keep high protein and last meal carbs, i believe controlling carbs for me is good to lose weight. I hate cardio like machines, i rather do boxing or martial arts but that will be in a year or so.

[yannick35]

What is your weight and BF%?

turned 40 this year BF% man should be high i must be around 25-26%.

I am giving myself a year to get back fully, ligaments take forever to strenghten with prolotherapy.

[yannick35]

I'm no aas vet, but 22yrs training and a sport science degree tells me all I need to know about training and the 3rd rate muscle aas builds. I'm getn off this subject because it's becoming an annoying game of tennis.

And btw, plenty of exp guys here will agree with me on diminishing gains from steroids

Dec11 i check your cycle and you used dbol which causes a lot of water retention, last year when i did my awful cycle 20 weeks i went from 217 to 261 to fix my back, deca masteron test E 200mg per week no AI, yeah talk about crap. After the cycle i had gained a lot of water and fat, but still i got back down to 242. Fat yes but still natrually the most i weighted was 225 or so. At some point i held on to some bodyweight, of course not all muscle, fat for sure but still stayed big.

I met my current medical doctor who uses steroids too and he gave me a proper PCT, but still i was not even training and it took me hell to lose all the weight. I am wondering if a longer cycle with low dosage would be better then a smaller cycle with high dosage.

I mean a cycle with dosage like 200mg per week for 16-20 weeks taking time to build the muscles, and also strength.

Someone who goes on cycle and gains a huge amount of strength after cycle its sure that this new gained strength will be lost and might be another reason why people lose gains.

I am just assuming here because has of now all my cycles have been crap, this is why i am planning my new cycle carefully.

[951thompson]

Trying to fast for 14-16 hours first few meals try to keep high protein and last meal carbs, i believe controlling carbs for me is good to lose weight. I hate cardio like machines, i rather do boxing or martial arts but that will be in a year or so.

I've tried intermittent fasting (leangains) I had alot of success with it, I lost a shit load of weight. Yeah fasted cardio is good, but im the same cardio machines are a bore unless have one in your living room so you can watch TV while you train lol I like to go for a 30 min jog around the streets near where I live when I first wake up (hardcore lol).

[yannick35]

I've tried intermittent fasting (leangains) I had alot of success with it, I lost a shit load of weight. Yeah fasted cardio is good, but im the same cardio machines are a bore unless have one in your living room so you can watch TV while you train lol I like to go for a 30 min jog around the streets near where I live when I first wake up (hardcore lol).

It takes about a week for the body to adapt but its well worth it, fasting does have some amazing properties, sugar cravings are gone and at some point you forget to eat and are almost never hungry. For cardio i got the bas rutten training cd i really enjoy the boxing 7 rounds of 3 minutes with 1 minute rest. But like many people on here said f** the scale mirror says it best.

Also i know that to get back down to 190 say i will have to eat like a bird and nearly kill myself. If i can work with what i have at 215-220 then be it

[951thompson]

It takes about a week for the body to adapt but its well worth it, fasting does have some amazing properties, sugar cravings are gone and at some point you forget to eat and are almost never hungry. For cardio i got the bas rutten training cd i really enjoy the boxing 7 rounds of 3 minutes with 1 minute rest. But like many people on here said f** the scale mirror says it best.

Also i know that to get back down to 190 say i will have to eat like a bird and nearly kill myself. If i can work with what i have at 215-220 then be it

If you are fasting just eat at a 400 calorie deficit then when fat loss stalls drop another 100 cal then when loss becomes really tight try carb cycling. Sounds like you have your shit together tho.

A recent study suggests that training fasted increases growth hormone .

That DVD sounds cool, I've got the UFC training game for the Xbox kinect, it's pretty cool cardio work out.

Why don't you start a nutrition log in the nutrition section you get free nutrition advice from qualified nutritions. I've got one you get some pretty neat help

[yannick35]

If you are fasting just eat at a 400 calorie deficit then when fat loss stalls drop another 100 cal then when loss becomes really tight try carb cycling. Sounds like you have your shit together tho.

A recent study suggests that training fasted increases growth hormone .

That DVD sounds cool, I've got the UFC training game for the Xbox kinect, it's pretty cool cardio work out.

Why don't you start a nutrition log in the nutrition section you get free nutrition advice from qualified nutritions. I've got one you get some pretty neat help

I got all training games on kinect but like i said my back is better i cannot go out and kill it again. For the nutrition log and training i am on my own right now its going good but there is nothing that tells me i wont have pains coming back and a fail return to the gym to i rather weight.

Right now i am walking on broken glass. There are a lot of books on fasting, eat stop eat, fast 5 and more you can DL from the internet for free. I have read a tone of studies on IF but some exaggerate like the warrior diet 20 hours fasting per day, most benefits can be obtained at the 14-16 hour mark, GH, IGF1, Insulin control, weight loss, etc

[951thompson]

I got all training games on kinect but like i said my back is better i cannot go out and kill it again. For the nutrition log and training i am on my own right now its going good but there is nothing that tells me i wont have pains coming back and a fail return to the gym to i rather weight.

Right now i am walking on broken glass. There are a lot of books on fasting, eat stop eat, fast 5 and more you can DL from the internet for free. I have read a tone of studies on IF but some exaggerate like the warrior diet 20 hours fasting per day, most benefits can be obtained at the 14-16 hour mark, GH, IGF1, Insulin control, weight loss, etc

Yeah I like leangains IF, I found I got best results from a 6 hour eating window. I also implemented some of the eat stop eat methods, I'd do a 36 hour fast every fortnight, as I say it worked well for me, im bulking at the moment on cycle, but after xmas I plan to go back to the above diet an try to get down to 7% bf

[lovbyts]

So why would you cycle when at or past your genetic limit? Most people look at their aesthetic best when at their genetic limit and with low body fat. Why risk your health just to go over that genetic limit? Seems rather pointless to me.

I have a SIMPLE example.
Speed limit is 70 mph most everywhere. Why make cars that go faster than 70 or 80 mph? Why modify your car or bike?????

[t-dogg]

turned 40 this year BF% man should be high i must be around 25-26%.

I am giving myself a year to get back fully, ligaments take forever to strenghten with prolotherapy.

That smart to do. Id get your BF% dowb under 15% before hitting a cycle. You can do that less then a year so go lower then 15% then.

[yannick35]

That smart to do. Id get your BF% dowb under 15% before hitting a cycle. You can do that less then a year so go lower then 15% then.

Exactly what my medical doctor will do with me when i am all healed up. The cycle is not for growth its to repair along with prolotherapy. Also i don't want to get fat pig like on my avatar.

I guess i am in good hands with this guy so far he knows what he is doing. Talking about my medical doctor. Makes no sense to run a cycle when you are fat.

Thanks for reply

[yannick35]

t-dogg i am very interested in running longer cycles has you did 16-20 weeks with lower dosage like 200mg per week. Next cycle to repair will look a lot like this with Equipoise at 300mg per week and Test E at 200mg per week too with AI and HCG of course and a bit of T3.

I also have 2 kits of GH at 2IU per day 5/2 that i will put in this.

[t-dogg]

t-dogg i am very interested in running longer cycles has you did 16-20 weeks with lower dosage like 200mg per week. Next cycle to repair will look a lot like this with Equipoise at 300mg per week and Test E at 200mg per week too with AI and HCG of course and a bit of T3.

I also have 2 kits of GH at 2IU per day 5/2 that i will put in this.

Most people dont really think much of EQ. I never used it so I cant speak on it. Personally I would just run alittle more test. T3 along with clen will help in fat cutting. HGH is best used 6mnths plus to get any real use of it. Two kits wont do much.

Im not sure I would really recommend long running cycles. I was kinda forced into it due to competing. My joints started hurting alittle bit at the end, also gains stopped and I actually lost alittle weight.

[yannick35]

Most people dont really think much of EQ. I never used it so I cant speak on it. Personally I would just run alittle more test. T3 along with clen will help in fat cutting. HGH is best used 6mnths plus to get any real use of it. Two kits wont do much.

Im not sure I would really recommend long running cycles. I was kinda forced into it due to competing. My joints started hurting alittle bit at the end, also gains stopped and I actually lost alittle weight.

clen and albuterol are way to strong for me, i tried them but could not handle them. I have been in GH for 5 months now 2 kits will bring me to around 11 months total.

EQ is just to get the red blood cell up so the body heals faster, i read mixed reviews about EQ myself.

I also have tren and anavar saved up.

[t-dogg]

If you dont mind me asking, what are you recovering from?

[yannick35]

If you dont mind me asking, what are you recovering from?

10 years of back pain, laxed ligaments, lower back is doing amazing, hip is solid again but upper neck still needs work.

You can reseach prolotherapy this is the treatment i am doing with some testosterone suspension and GH in the cocktail mix. But man it takes forever to repair. Time that the collagen and scar tissue get into the laxed ligament to make it stronger.