Most complex case ever? Need real expert help...

[cdagolfer]

My wife is 35 yrs old, 5'6" and 148 pounds, up from 135 a year ago. I was involved in a serious accident that required 5 surgeries and the stress of having to take care of me caused her to put on a lot of weight. As of twenty days ago, she weighed 158 pounds.

She had her thyroid destroyed pre-puberty from grave's disease/hyperthyroidism, so she's been on thyroid medications most of her life to manage this issue. Because of her condition, she's also always found it impossible to lose weight. Her diet is impeccable, so please, don't start in on that. We have worked with more 7 different personal trainers and more than half a dozen MD's and ND's and each has tried their spin on things and she has followed whatever they've asked to a "T".

Most recently, as a list ditch effort to move the scale, she did the HCG 500 calorie diet and today we met with the naturopath to check in after the first 22 days. As a result of following the HCG 500 calorie diet 100% by the book, she lost 10 pounds, of which 9 were lean muscle mass!!!! Only one pound of fat after starving herself and taking HCG, which did nothing for her just like everything else she has tried - and I mean everything.

We have spent over $20,000 over the past 11 years trying to help her and as she gets older, the problem gets worse. Her other naturopath who is also a compounding pharmacist blames everything on exhausted adrenals and keeps having her take tons of different pills that have helped her in terms of being able to sleep and not have heart palpatations, but after 3 years, she got no results from her workouts.

She was working out 6 days a week with a PT, 30 mins a day lifting plus 30 min of cardio, Dr. told her that was stressing her body out and wanted her to do long, slow cardio to keep her from going into "fight or flight" mode, so she did and was literally walking on the treadmill for 1.5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

This is just one tiny sliver of all the things she has tried. We're both very knowledgable when it comes to fitness, diet, etc. myself included. Before my accident I as 178 pounds with 8% bodyfat at 5'9", up from 138 pounds 5 years earlier and I did it all naturale`.

In the end, I give a background so someone doesn't reply "she just needs to dial in her diet and up her cardio", or "do fasting cardio", or "hiit" or anything else. Trust me, we've tried all of it. She's an extremely hard worker and loves to workout, but no one loves to workout when you not only don't get the results you desire, but you actually get worse.

Her body seems basically incapable of burning fat. So, here is my question.

Will Clenbuterol possibly help her? Are there any others out there with hypothyroidism or adrenal fatigue issues that have found anything that worked. If you have had these issues, you know how hopeless and frustrating it can be to bust your ass and actually get fatter as your body goes into fight or flight mode.

So, any experts out there on this issue? I realize this case is extremely complex, way more complex than what I've covered here, but this hits some of the high points and I'm just wanting to see if there is anyone outside of the traditional and even non-traditional paths out there that might be able to help because the MD's, dieticians, personal trainers, etc. haven't been able to do anything.

[Sworder]

Seems like a more complex issue and if the solution was simply to up the thyroid meds that would be recommended already by the doctors. Sounds like her system is shot and the basic mechanisms clenbuterol would try to have an effect on in regards to lipolysis are not working properly. So if you would supplement with clenbuterol you would get the all of the side effects and not a lot of the positive. Since she is having heart palpitations already clenbuterol may further adverse effects with the heart. I wouldn't use clenbuterol for your wife, and I would be very weary on medical advice you get over a public forum when your wife is seemingly very sick. Good luck to you and it is very unfortunate that something like this happens to people who actually care about their physique and well-being.

[Lunk1]

Has she tried resistance training at all. Yes the scale may go up some but you are well aware of the metobolic assistance increased muscle is to the body and as you explained she just lost another 9 lbs of lbm making her even less efficiant of a fat burner

[cdagolfer]

Sworder, thanks for the kind words. She is on cytomel now for T3 and has no palpitations. Her heart has been very regular for about a year and a half now. The whole reason for posting here is that we have exhausted traditional medial doctor resources and are hoping that someone might have an idea here. The reasons are obvious, bodybuilders tend to be more "explorative" with "alternative" methods for fat loss and muscle building than a typical dr.

Lunk1, of course, she's lifted weights for more than 10 years. Trust me, if this case had an answer that simple and we hadn't tried EVERYTHING I wouldn't be posting here seeking an alternative answer.

[Sworder]

Yes, and the problem doesn't seem to be hormonal otherwise the docs would have upped the cytomel. It is probably a metabolic problem or cellular defects or something else honestly I have no clue, bodybuilders are all about the hormones. I don't even think clenbuterol has that large effect on fat burning. That's just from personal experience, T3 is stronger. DNP is so toxic it cannot be recommended by me. That would be an alternative but I DO NOT recommend it. Honestly I shouldn't even mention it but :P

[Lunk1]

Sworder, thanks for the kind words. She is on cytomel now for T3 and has no palpitations. Her heart has been very regular for about a year and a half now. The whole reason for posting here is that we have exhausted traditional medial doctor resources and are hoping that someone might have an idea here. The reasons are obvious, bodybuilders tend to be more "explorative" with "alternative" methods for fat loss and muscle building than a typical dr.

Lunk1, of course, she's lifted weights for more than 10 years. Trust me, if this case had an answer that simple and we hadn't tried EVERYTHING I wouldn't be posting here seeking an alternative answer.

I realize you seem to have tried everything. I hope it all gets sorted out. I am sure it has been very stressful. I am assuming she has had BW done testing ALL of her hormone levels???

[cdagolfer]

More blood work than can be imagined, T3, free T3, T4, it's all been done. The "current" diagnosis is "adrenal fatigue" due to them having to work overtime compensating for a lack of a functioning thyroid for so long (over 20 years).

That's fine and good, but the doctors have been trying to "fix" the adrenals for 3 years now with no results. She's really a freak of nature at this point as doing things by the books literally can cause the exact opposite of the desired results.

This HCG diet she lost 9 pounds of muscle and 1 of fat. It's almost impossible to imagine. Just hope to find a similar case out there somewhere that had a positive outcome...

[ScotchGuard02]

You're right this seems like a real complex case. I've used Clen/T4/Keto for fat loss with really good results. However, all of my levels are normal. I've talked to women that got on Clen and it did nothing for them. I can't contribute technically but I give you my moral support. Good luck.

[cherrydrpepper]

At the heart of your post is the issue of muscle wasting. She lost 9 lbs of muscle to only 1 lb of fat.
I was on this page looking at people suffering muscle wasting
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Grave...muscle-wasting

I would read all the posts but this one was interesting. The lady posts her supplements routine:

"These are the supplements I take (and pretty much have been taking since last Oct). I know its a long list. The first group are B vitamins--the B-50 complex has all of these but not necessarily at as high of levels as I heard it was good to take so I added the individual ones. You might find just adding a B-50 complex helpful.

B-50 complex with C
Flush free Niacin (250 mg)
PABA (500 mg)
Choline & Inositol (250 mg of each)
Pantothenic Acid (500 mg)
Biotin (600 mcg)

Selenium (200 mcg)
Alpha lipoic acid (100 mg)
Co-Q10 (100 mg)
Vitamin E (400 mg)
Vitamin D3 2000 mg (I'm in the Pacific NW and have tested low on vit D)
Cod liver oil
Acetyl–L–Carnitine (500 mg)
Calcium (1000 mg)
Magnesium (500 mg)

I had a hair analysis showing that I was low in copper - high in zinc so I added these. The boron helps with building strong bones as well. I'm gluten and dairy free as well.
Boron (3 mg)
Copper (early on I took 8 mg now 4 mg)"

I would make a standardized post and post it to a dozen forums for graves disease. Examples:
http://www.livingwithgravesdisease.com and http://www.thyroidboards.com .

This page talks about thyroid hormone replacement:
http://home.rica.net/deecee/dual-hor...eplacement.htm

This page talks about hormonal imbalances:
http://www.naturalendocrinesolutions...s-lose-weight/

You came here to ask about aas and things more controversial than vitamins like clen. I dont like clen Ive tried it a couple of times and it gave me heart palpitations. Some people love it. There is a topic I would investigate that I am not qualified to give you any advice on and this is testosterone for women. I am curious if at low doses such as the kind found in the gels if this would be good for her situation (help keep and promote muscle growth while cutting fat during workout and diet). I was at a bodybuilding competition that had both men and women, and some of the women look damn good and are not natural. The sides I believe can be minimized by keeping the dose low. I was reading that they sometimes will prescribe it for women after menopause. Again I know little about this so I would ask someone else or read up more if interested.

[Lunk1]

At the heart of your post is the issue of muscle wasting. She lost 9 lbs of muscle to only 1 lb of fat.
I was on this page looking at people suffering muscle wasting
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Grave...muscle-wasting

I would read all the posts but this one was interesting. The lady posts her supplements routine:

"These are the supplements I take (and pretty much have been taking since last Oct). I know its a long list. The first group are B vitamins--the B-50 complex has all of these but not necessarily at as high of levels as I heard it was good to take so I added the individual ones. You might find just adding a B-50 complex helpful.

B-50 complex with C
Flush free Niacin (250 mg)
PABA (500 mg)
Choline & Inositol (250 mg of each)
Pantothenic Acid (500 mg)
Biotin (600 mcg)

Selenium (200 mcg)
Alpha lipoic acid (100 mg)
Co-Q10 (100 mg)
Vitamin E (400 mg)
Vitamin D3 2000 mg (I'm in the Pacific NW and have tested low on vit D)
Cod liver oil
Acetyl–L–Carnitine (500 mg)
Calcium (1000 mg)
Magnesium (500 mg)

I had a hair analysis showing that I was low in copper - high in zinc so I added these. The boron helps with building strong bones as well. I'm gluten and dairy free as well.
Boron (3 mg)
Copper (early on I took 8 mg now 4 mg)"

I would make a standardized post and post it to a dozen forums for graves disease. Examples:
http://www.livingwithgravesdisease.com and http://www.thyroidboards.com .

This page talks about thyroid hormone replacement:
http://home.rica.net/deecee/dual-hor...eplacement.htm

This page talks about hormonal imbalances:
http://www.naturalendocrinesolutions...s-lose-weight/

You came here to ask about aas and things more controversial than vitamins like clen. I dont like clen Ive tried it a couple of times and it gave me heart palpitations. Some people love it. There is a topic I would investigate that I am not qualified to give you any advice on and this is testosterone for women. I am curious if at low doses such as the kind found in the gels if this would be good for her situation (help keep and promote muscle growth while cutting fat during workout and diet). I was at a bodybuilding competition that had both men and women, and some of the women look damn good and are not natural. The sides I believe can be minimized by keeping the dose low. I was reading that they sometimes will prescribe it for women after menopause. Again I know little about this so I would ask someone else or read up more if interested.

My wife is on low dose test/estro and thyroid meds. The tst I don't believe will help in the ops case. It would actually cause some weight gain which they are trying to avoid. I dont believe the ops case is related to muscle wasting. I think the muscle loss as stated was from that crap HCG diet that some Docs. push. No way someone can eat 500 cals and not lose substantial muscle.

Op..I am curious, what is her BF%??

[cherrydrpepper]

Lunk1 probably right. Your wife at 500 cal a day for a long period - probably totally messed with her body sending it into fight or flight mode and triggering cortisol. On bodybuilding sites you will see the same advice over and over again. To lose fat and keep muscle, eat 6 times a day with each meal every 3 hours. With a 1000 calorie diet or a little less/more I know this is difficult but I would try it and see if results change.