16 week PRE COMP cutting cycle: Test prop, Masteron, Anavar [advice needed]

[Noles12]

You can go clen 2on/2 off then after the 2 off start ECA 2 on/ 2off. Personally i would try both for a period then use only one. I see no need to continue switching back and forth

[dec11]

The only thing clen does for me is make me cramp not matter how i move or what i take. I can pick up a glass of water and get excruciating cramps.

It completely cuts out my leg workouts

yeah, it really is the most overblown and hyped up compound out there, the whole size zero model thing gave it its name

[RyanGreg]

Thanks a lot for all your posts guys!

Huge help, looking forward to starting the cycle.

[dec11]

OP, dont waste your money on trib, its completely useless and does zilch......

[Sworder]

If you do decide to use the clen, I would get the diphenhydramine sleeping pills like unisom or benadryl. This will help your beta receptors and also sleep of course. Read up more on the clen use though and hear peoples opinions on it. So far none of us can really account for a lot of benefits with clen.

Also, you don't have to do ED injections of Test E for stable levels. EOD is more than enough E3D should yield the same levels as well. Drop the hCG along when you lower test dose or 2 weeks before the contest and continue it after or I don't know how you have planned your cycle and competition.

[RyanGreg]

OP, dont waste your money on trib, its completely useless and does zilch......

Any other supplement you would recommend for PCT to boost test then?

[RyanGreg]

If you do decide to use the clen, I would get the diphenhydramine sleeping pills like unisom or benadryl. This will help your beta receptors and also sleep of course. Read up more on the clen use though and hear peoples opinions on it. So far none of us can really account for a lot of benefits with clen.

Also, you don't have to do ED injections of Test E for stable levels. EOD is more than enough E3D should yield the same levels as well. Drop the hCG along when you lower test dose or 2 weeks before the contest though and continue it after or I don't know how you have planned your cycle and competition.

Yeah i heard you can get real bad headaches on clen?

Whats your opinion on Liquid Albuterol? I heard its very similar to clen..

[Sworder]

Yes, against the rules. Edit the post and remove the link.

Never tried it, if it's like clen I will probably never touch it

[RyanGreg]

Sorry guys my last question if you don't mind.

What is best to take for my liver?

[RyanGreg]

Yes, against the rules. Edit the post and remove the link.

Never tried it, if it's like clen I will probably never touch it

Removed.

Haha ok, fair enough.

[Sworder]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!#.UG6HuFFZZX8 Atomini compiled a nice thread on the Liver!

[dec11]

Any other supplement you would recommend for PCT to boost test then?

no such thing mate, 'test boosters' are a myth and a con from the supp companies to rid the ill informed of their cash. there's only one way to have over the odds test levels

[RyanGreg]

Thanks! Will take a read.

Thanks for all the help in the thread.

[dec11]

Sorry guys my last question if you don't mind.

What is best to take for my liver?

thats all a load of bollocks too. ive run oral combos of drol/dbol and my levels have always been fine, i get tested regularly for TRT. i used to take milk thistle and liv52 etc, waste of money and unproven.

you need to edit post 47 btw

[Sworder]

no such thing mate, 'test boosters' are a myth and a con from the supp companies to rid the ill informed of their cash. there's only one way to have over the odds test levels

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942
Abstract

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.

Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/10997957

Abstract

The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.

[RyanGreg]

thats all a load of bollocks too. ive run oral combos of drol/dbol and my levels have always been fine, i get tested regularly for TRT. i used to take milk thistle and liv52 etc, waste of money and unproven.

you need to edit post 47 btw

Ok thanks.

And i have edited post #47, i removed the link a few minutes ago maybe you just hadn't refreshed your page.

[dec11]

Ok thanks.

And i have edited post #47, i removed the link a few minutes ago maybe you just hadn't refreshed your page.

ah, i see that now

[Sworder]

It's funny how much money they can squeeze out of people based on hype from manufacturers. Also, that unleashed/PCT is probably crap too, what are the active ingredients?

[dec11]

It's funny how much money they can squeeze out of people based on hype from manufacturers. Also, that[B] unleashed/PCT is probably crap too, what are the active ingredients?

didnt even know what that was but if its claiming to be an OTC pct then its BS for sure.

[RyanGreg]

It's funny how much money they can squeeze out of people based on hype from manufacturers. Also, that unleashed/PCT is probably crap too, what are the active ingredients?

didnt even know what that was but if its claiming to be an OTC pct then its BS for sure.

[dec11]

some useful ingredients in there but you could have prob bought 'em singularly for half the price matey

[RyanGreg]

some useful ingredients in there but you could have prob bought 'em singularly for half the price matey

Yeah good point.

[RyanGreg]

BUMP..

Another question people...thinking about adding primobolan to this cycle at 600mg/week for the entire cycle. Thoughts?

Money is not an issue. But how does the cycle look?

test prop 100mg EOD (16 weeks)
Masteron 150mg EOD (last 10 weeks)
Anavar 50mg ED (last 10 weeks)
Aromasin 12.5mg ED (16 weeks) (4 weeks in PCT also)
hcg 250iu 2x per week (last 10 weeks of cycle)
Primobolan 600mg per week (16 weeks)

PCT:

Clomid 25/25/25/25 (4 weeks) =
Nolva 40/40/20/20 (4 weeks) =
Unleashed/post cycle combo (4 weeks) =
Aromasin 12.5mg (4 weeks) =
DAA powder (8 weeks) =

[Sworder]

Trenbolone would give you more bang for your buck. Even @ 200-300mg/week.

Edit: It's a stronger and better compound for your goals..

[RyanGreg]

Trenbolone would give you more bang for your buck. Even @ 200-300mg/week.

Edit: It's a stronger and better compound too for your goals..

Too scared from tren lol....

Insomnia i could not handle
Hate acne and i believe tren is the worse?
Don't want to get night sweats especially if sleeping with my girl
Don't want to be short on breath, i need my stamina (for sex lol)
Also i heard bad breath?

[Sworder]

If you use enough androgens you will get night sweats as well and all those symptoms. On my first cycle of 500mg Test I got MAD night sweats, I don't get night sweats at all on trenbolone. Don't be too scared of the compound, it's great and you will love it. People ramp up tren to be such a bad guy! You don't need a lot though, try Tren Ace. If you notice a lot of sides it should clear quickly. If you want to use Primobolan you could try it, I would go with either Primo OR Mast(I would choose Mast, never tried Primo tho) with Trenbolone, 200mg/week shouldn't give you any sides.

I usually get acne on my back from Tren, but I run higher doses though(400mg-600).

[RyanGreg]

If you use enough androgens you will get night sweats as well and all those symptoms. On my first cycle of 500mg Test I got MAD night sweats, I don't get night sweats at all on trenbolone. Don't be too scared of the compound, it's great and you will love it. People ramp up tren to be such a bad guy! You don't need a lot though, try Tren Ace. If you notice a lot of sides it should clear quickly. If you want to use Primobolan you could try it, I would go with either Primo OR Mast(I would choose Mast, never tried Primo tho) with Trenbolone, 200mg/week shouldn't give you any sides.

I usually get acne on my back from Tren, but I run higher doses though(400mg-600).

I think everyone has scared me too much lol.. I just don't want to break out in acne..

I planed to use Mast AND primo, together..

[Sworder]

If you want to do the Mast and Primo go for it! It can give you acne also though!

I would recommend trying the Trenbolone @ 200mg/week to start. It's fast acting and amazing at body recomp. The only anabolic steroid which has profound fat burning effects IMO! DHT/Test/Nor combo should hopefully give some synergy

[RyanGreg]

If you want to do the Mast and Primo go for it! It can give you acne also though!

I would recommend trying the Trenbolone @ 200mg/week to start. It's fast acting and amazing at body recomp. The only anabolic steroid which has profound fat burning effects IMO! DHT/Test/Nor combo should hopefully give some synergy

But more chance on breaking out with acne on tren right?

Hmmmm cannot decide now lol :P

Tren sounds sooooo good.

[Sworder]

I can't hypothetically compare the chance for acne on Primo 600mg or 200mg Tren.

I wouldn't recommend it if it was insane on the sides. It's hyped up. Try it @ 200mg/week am sure you will be happy with the results! 350mg Ace/400mg Enanthate is where you start feeling the real effects of the drug though. 200mg should be enough to just further stimulate some ARs and won't be heavy at all on the sides if you even get any..

[RyanGreg]

I can't hypothetically compare the chance for acne on Primo 600mg or 200mg Tren.

I wouldn't recommend it if it was insane on the sides. It's hyped up. Try it @ 200mg/week am sure you will be happy with the results! 350mg Ace/400mg Enanthate is where you start feeling the real effects of the drug though. 200mg should be enough to just further stimulate some ARs and won't be heavy at all on the sides if you even get any..

Ok thanks for the post sworder, i may give it a go :S

[Far from massive]

I would place a big vote for the Tren/Mast/Test EorC combo. By running the Mast at around 100ed you will keep the aromatization of test in check this in turn will allow you to run your TrenA at 50ed and not have nearly as much pimples and other common Tren sides.

Sides on Tren are in my opinion often due to either using very little or no Test or conversly using a boatload of Test. I know that sounds contradictory so let me explain, if you use too little say a 500/100 Tren/Test split then you will suffer from agression/lack of libido/sleeplessness/pimples/etc. if you on the otherhand run 500/1000 Tren/Test then lactate sides/sleeplessnes/sweats etc. will be the norm. However by keeping the aromatization under control with the Mast and running Test/Tren at about equal levels you should see very little problems....well other than massive appetite, huge strenght gains, and major fat burning, you will still have some sleep issues however they will not be nearly as bad... and of course other than sleep, most of those are good things ;-)

Also this is just my own take on things but I don't mind daily pinning one bit and by combining all in one syringe it will be really smooth whereas TrenA injected by itself is much more likely to cause Tren cough. Also by injecting ED naturally blood levels will be dead steady. As far as Test goes I really prefer C over E due to all the recent problems with shitty E powders causing so much PIP, whereas Cyp is almost always shipped as a PH balanced powder so this is not an issue.


Also footnote:

I assume you have cycled before? If not then I would definately not be using any of these multipe compounds in a cycle till you find out how your body reacts to a simple test cycle. Assuming you have moderate cycle experience then by using the short esters MastP and TrenA and introducing them a few wks apart in your cycle you will be able to identify the culprit should sides rear their ugly head. However ( and I may get flamed for this) its my personal opininon that sides are not nearly as likely in those who are in serious competition shape. That is many people say the are about 12% but in reality they are lucky to be 16% this makes side much more likely.

[RyanGreg]

I would place a big vote for the Tren/Mast/Test EorC combo. By running the Mast at around 100ed you will keep the aromatization of test in check this in turn will allow you to run your TrenA at 50ed and not have nearly as much pimples and other common Tren sides.

Sides on Tren are in my opinion often due to either using very little or no Test or conversly using a boatload of Test. I know that sounds contradictory so let me explain, if you use too little say a 500/100 Tren/Test split then you will suffer from agression/lack of libido/sleeplessness/pimples/etc. if you on the otherhand run 500/1000 Tren/Test then lactate sides/sleeplessnes/sweats etc. will be the norm. However by keeping the aromatization under control with the Mast and running Test/Tren at about equal levels you should see very little problems....well other than massive appetite, huge strenght gains, and major fat burning, you will still have some sleep issues however they will not be nearly as bad... and of course other than sleep, most of those are good things ;-)

Also this is just my own take on things but I don't mind daily pinning one bit and by combining all in one syringe it will be really smooth whereas TrenA injected by itself is much more likely to cause Tren cough. Also by injecting ED naturally blood levels will be dead steady. As far as Test goes I really prefer C over E due to all the recent problems with shitty E powders causing so much PIP, whereas Cyp is almost always shipped as a PH balanced powder so this is not an issue.


Also footnote:

I assume you have cycled before? If not then I would definately not be using any of these multipe compounds in a cycle till you find out how your body reacts to a simple test cycle. Assuming you have moderate cycle experience then by using the short esters MastP and TrenA and introducing them a few wks apart in your cycle you will be able to identify the culprit should sides rear their ugly head. However ( and I may get flamed for this) its my personal opininon that sides are not nearly as likely in those who are in serious competition shape. That is many people say the are about 12% but in reality they are lucky to be 16% this makes side much more likely.

Thanks a lot for your post!

I am planing on running 100mg ED of test and if i was going to use tren on cycle as well it would be at 200mg.

Thoughts on dosages?