16 week PRE COMP cutting cycle: Test prop, Masteron, Anavar [advice needed]

[RyanGreg]

Some information about myself..

Age: 24
Years bodybuilding: 5
Height: 5'10
Weight: 195
Body fat percentage: currently 11-12% (have dieted down to 6% before)

I have entered 2 bodybuilding comps in the past, this will be my 3rd. My first comp i placed 2nd and most recent comp i took out 1st place. This time i want to step things up. (no drug testing at this comp).

The cycle i will be running.

cycle:

test prop 100mg EOD (16 weeks)
Masteron 150mg EOD (last 10 weeks)
Anavar 50mg ED (last 8 weeks)
Aromasin 12.5mg ED (16 weeks) (4 weeks in PCT also)
hcg 250iu 2x per week (last 10 weeks of cycle)

PCT:

Clomid 25/25/25/25 (4 weeks)
Nolva 40/40/20/20 (4 weeks)
Unleashed/post cycle combo (4 weeks)
Aromasin 12.5mg (4 weeks)
DAA powder (8 weeks)
Tribulus (8 weeks)

Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

[Sworder]

16 weeks of prop.. You don't like enanthate or cyp?

[Noles12]

What is your previous cycle history?

I personally feel you wont see much at all from Mast dosed that low

[Lunk1]

^^^^^ Amen...thats alot of poking. I would just use Test E and front load with prop!

[Lunk1]

What is your previous cycle history?

I personally feel you wont see much at all from Mast dosed that low

I agree with this 500-700mg EW is the sweet spot for mast imo

[Noles12]

16 weeks of prop.. You don't like enanthate or cyp?

Longer esters can lead to more bloat. This is not ideal in bodybuilding.

I do feel though that one can run a longer ester then transition the last few weeks to a shorter ester

[RyanGreg]

16 weeks of prop.. You don't like enanthate or cyp?

Pre comp so i want minimal water retention and bloat. I don't mind needles.

[RyanGreg]

I agree with this 500-700mg EW is the sweet spot for mast imo

Ok I will do mast 150mg EOD.. Just over 500mg

[RyanGreg]

Thanks a lot for all your fast replies.

[Sworder]

All bloat should be gone either way come comp day, hit the letro and cycle the carbs just right for a full look!

What is your pre-comp diet/prep?

[Metalject]

With a 16wk contest prep plan using the compounds you've listed, you might consider limiting the Masteron to the last 6-8wks. This steroid won't do a lot for you until you're at a very low level of body fat. If you do this, you shouldn't have to worry about losing too much muscle as long as you're diet is right and you continue with the testosterone at the front half. Will it be the end of the world if you use it the whole ten wks as listed? No.

Also be prepared to lower the test dose down at the end, say the last 2-4wks. You may not have to and should base this on how you're looking but you need to be willing to do so if needed.

I'd also consider doubling the AI dose the last 2wks before your show. This will help out quite a bit.

[RyanGreg]

Will Aromasin be enough to prevent water retention and bloat or will i need to go letro?

Diet is 50/25/25 of P/C/F % and i will be in a deficit of -500

[Metalject]

Longer esters can lead to more bloat. This is not ideal in bodybuilding.

I do feel though that one can run a longer ester then transition the last few weeks to a shorter ester

This is a common myth that's been spread around for a long time. Esters do not affect water retention. The testosterone hormone does not become active in the body until the hormone cleaves off the ester, so regardless of the ester that existed in the beginning, the same hormone is in the body once there's no ester.

Personally, I know a lot of guys who stick with Enanthate or Cypionate all the way through to their contest. A lot of them, however, will inject it on an every other day basis in smaller doses rather than 1-2 large doses per wk. This seems to help out with maintaining peaked levels due to the short burst of testosterone compounds like Enanthate bring in the first 48hrs before the stable off to a slower release over the next few weeks. It also seems to help control side effects a little more...why, I'm not entirely sure, only have theories.

[Sworder]

Will Aromasin be enough to prevent water retention and bloat or will i need to go letro?

Diet is 50/25/25 of P/C/F % and i will be in a deficit of -500

Masin is fine, i just personally prefer letrozole. Doubling the dose should be fine as Metalject suggests, don't be afraid to increase though to get that super dry look. I would look into carb cycling though or fat cycling either works. This prevents you from looking flat as a lot of the guys look flat and watery. Don't make that mistake!

This is a common myth that's been spread around for a long time. Esters do not affect water retention. The testosterone hormone does not become active in the body until the hormone cleaves off the ester, so regardless of the ester that existed in the beginning, the same hormone is in the body once there's no ester.

Personally, I know a lot of guys who stick with Enanthate or Cypionate all the way through to their contest. A lot of them, however, will inject it on an every other day basis in smaller doses rather than 1-2 large doses per wk. This seems to help out with maintaining peaked levels due to the short burst of testosterone compounds like Enanthate bring in the first 48hrs before the stable off to a slower release over the next few weeks. It also seems to help control side effects a little more...why, I'm not entirely sure, only have theories.

Right on

[Metalject]

Will Aromasin be enough to prevent water retention and bloat or will i need to go letro?

Diet is 50/25/25 of P/C/F % and i will be in a deficit of -500

I prefer letro at the tail end of a contest cycle, say the last 2-3wks. Combined with the Masteron, which is anti-estrogenic to a degree, this should really help.

[RyanGreg]

With a 16wk contest prep plan using the compounds you've listed, you might consider limiting the Masteron to the last 6-8wks. This steroid won't do a lot for you until you're at a very low level of body fat. If you do this, you shouldn't have to worry about losing too much muscle as long as you're diet is right and you continue with the testosterone at the front half. Will it be the end of the world if you use it the whole ten wks as listed? No.

Also be prepared to lower the test dose down at the end, say the last 2-4wks. You may not have to and should base this on how you're looking but you need to be willing to do so if needed.

I'd also consider doubling the AI dose the last 2wks before your show. This will help out quite a bit.

Yeah i will drop the test dose down depending on how i am looking and will double up on the AI.

Would you recommend another AI instead of Aromasin?

Arimidex? Letro?

[Lunk1]

This is a common myth that's been spread around for a long time. Esters do not affect water retention. The testosterone hormone does not become active in the body until the hormone cleaves off the ester, so regardless of the ester that existed in the beginning, the same hormone is in the body once there's no ester.

Personally, I know a lot of guys who stick with Enanthate or Cypionate all the way through to their contest. A lot of them, however, will inject it on an every other day basis in smaller doses rather than 1-2 large doses per wk. This seems to help out with maintaining peaked levels due to the short burst of testosterone compounds like Enanthate bring in the first 48hrs before the stable off to a slower release over the next few weeks. It also seems to help control side effects a little more...why, I'm not entirely sure, only have theories.

Thank you for saying the same thing I have been trying to say for a while on here. I don't get this "I bloat on E but not on prop" Hogwash!

[RyanGreg]

Masin is fine, i just personally prefer letrozole. Doubling the dose should be fine as Metalject suggests, don't be afraid to increase though to get that super dry look. I would look into carb cycling though or fat cycling either works. This prevents you from looking flat as a lot of the guys look flat and watery. Don't make that mistake!



Right on

Yeah i will carb deplete and carb load for the comp.

I heard letro will kill estrogen completely is this true? Could i use letro throughout the whole 16 weeks? I have a few photo shoots lined up.

[RyanGreg]

I prefer letro at the tail end of a contest cycle, say the last 2-3wks. Combined with the Masteron, which is anti-estrogenic to a degree, this should really help.

Could i do Aromasin for 10 weeks, letro for the last 6 weeks? Few photo shoots in the last weeks.

Or just straight letro for 16 weeks?

[Sworder]

Yeah i will carb deplete and carb load for the comp.

I heard letro will kill estrogen completely is this true? Could i use letro throughout the whole 16 weeks? I have a few photo shoots lined up.

The reason why letro is so infamous for killing estrogen is because it comes dosed @ 2.5mg/ml and people think that you have to use 0.5ml of any given liquid :P Dose your letro like you would your arimidex, 0.5mg EOD or 0.25mgED, and you will be fine. Letrozole works just fine for me and I love it, saves money using it over Masin/arimidex. Yes, through-out the whole 16 weeks is fine. Just be mindful of your estrogen levels and adjust if it is too much/too little.

[Metalject]

Yeah i will drop the test dose down depending on how i am looking and will double up on the AI.

Would you recommend another AI instead of Aromasin?

Arimidex? Letro?

I prefer Arimidex over Aromasin, but I never used a lot of Aromasin to make a fair comparison. Used it off-season a few times when needed but always used Arimidex or Letro for dieting.

[warmouth]

Why is there the misconception of a long ester vs short and water retention? I have never ran into water retention on either. Do you guys think certain compounds affect certain people differently? Or is it just that it is the old scholl mentality?

[Metalject]

Why is there the misconception of a long ester vs short and water retention? I have never ran into water retention on either. Do you guys think certain compounds affect certain people differently? Or is it just that it is the old scholl mentality?

Most people tend to use less testosterone when dieting than bulking and because of a lower test dose, a stricter diet and a lot more cardio they hold less water. Many assume they held less because they used a smaller ester but it's the other factors that produced the result, not the ester.

[Sworder]

Why is there the misconception of a long ester vs short and water retention? I have never ran into water retention on either. Do you guys think certain compounds affect certain people differently? Or is it just that it is the old scholl mentality?

The ester isn't used, it's a "vehicle" only. Some say they get better gains on prop than enanthate but in reality they are using the same compound. Testosterone.. If you dose them correctly so that you are metabolizing the same amount/day there won't be a difference.

[RyanGreg]

I prefer Arimidex over Aromasin, but I never used a lot of Aromasin to make a fair comparison. Used it off-season a few times when needed but always used Arimidex or Letro for dieting.

What is the strongest out of the 3?

I always thought it was Letro, then Aromasin then Arimidex being last.

[Sworder]

All 3 are capable of driving your e2 down to rock-bottom. Their equivalent doses are about 0.5mg letro EOD, 0.5mg arimidex EOD, Aromasin 25mg EOD. But they aren't the same drugs though so you can't compare them like that, just to give you an understanding..

What people prefer is aromasin/arimidex, letro is on everybody's sh1t list except mine

[RyanGreg]

Thanks for all the posts Sworder, great help.

What do you think about adding clen into this cycle?

[Noles12]

This is a common myth that's been spread around for a long time. Esters do not affect water retention. The testosterone hormone does not become active in the body until the hormone cleaves off the ester, so regardless of the ester that existed in the beginning, the same hormone is in the body once there's no ester.

Personally, I know a lot of guys who stick with Enanthate or Cypionate all the way through to their contest. A lot of them, however, will inject it on an every other day basis in smaller doses rather than 1-2 large doses per wk. This seems to help out with maintaining peaked levels due to the short burst of testosterone compounds like Enanthate bring in the first 48hrs before the stable off to a slower release over the next few weeks. It also seems to help control side effects a little more...why, I'm not entirely sure, only have theories.

I agree with this.

The ester has nothing to do with the bloat but rather the pinning frequency that comes along with it. THe longer esters are often pinned biweekly as you said, causing a large increase in testosterone followed by leveling off the a very large spike again a few days later, This fluctuation can bring about the bloat seen with the compound. With a more frequent pinning schedule and smaller doses per pin, the hormone levels remain more stable leading to less unwanted sides. THis is often why shorter esters are used due to their requiring a more frequent pinning schedule

[RyanGreg]

I agree with this.

The ester has nothing to do with the bloat but rather the pinning frequency that comes along with it. THe longer esters are often pinned biweekly as you said, causing a large increase in testosterone followed by leveling off the a very large spike again a few days later, This fluctuation can bring about the bloat seen with the compound. With a more frequent pinning schedule and smaller doses per pin, the hormone levels remain more stable leading to less unwanted sides. THis is often why shorter esters are used due to their requiring a more frequent pinning schedule

So technically would ED pinning be better for bloat and water retention compared to EOD pinning?

I honestly do not mind pinning ED for 16 weeks if it will be even 1/10th better.

[Sworder]

Thanks for all the posts Sworder, great help.

What do you think about adding clen into this cycle?

Personally I am not a big fan of clenbuterol. It is great for energy though when reserves get low. The edge it gives is minimal FOR ME. Some guys like it, I am not one though. ECA stack usually works well for energy as well or you could cycle the two 2weeks on 2 weeks off. Have you tried clen yet? t3?

[dec11]

Personally I am not a big fan of clenbuterol. It is great for energy though when reserves get low. The edge it gives is minimal FOR ME. Some guys like it, I am not one though. ECA stack usually works well for energy as well or you could cycle the two 2weeks on 2 weeks off. Have you tried clen yet? t3?

agreed, clen is shit imho

[Noles12]

So technically would ED pinning be better for bloat and water retention compared to EOD pinning?

I honestly do not mind pinning ED for 16 weeks if it will be even 1/10th better.

More stable blood levels will result in less sides. ED injections can obtain more stable levels but the difference can be very minor due to the half life of compounds

[Noles12]

Personally I am not a big fan of clenbuterol. It is great for energy though when reserves get low. The edge it gives is minimal FOR ME. Some guys like it, I am not one though. ECA stack usually works well for energy as well or you could cycle the two 2weeks on 2 weeks off. Have you tried clen yet? t3?

The only thing clen does for me is make me cramp not matter how i move or what i take. I can pick up a glass of water and get excruciating cramps.

It completely cuts out my leg workouts

[RyanGreg]

Personally I am not a big fan of clenbuterol. It is great for energy though when reserves get low. The edge it gives is minimal FOR ME. Some guys like it, I am not one though. ECA stack usually works well for energy as well or you could cycle the two 2weeks on 2 weeks off. Have you tried clen yet? t3?

Yeah i may do this ECA stack and clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and cycle them.

Nope haven't tried either.

[RyanGreg]

More stable blood levels will result in less sides. ED injections can obtain more stable levels but the difference can be very minor due to the half life of compounds

Ok thanks for the info. I will most likely end up pinning ED then lol. Will feel like a pin cushion after it, but i don't mind.

[Noles12]

Yeah i may do this ECA stack and clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and cycle them.

Nope haven't tried either.

Bad idea. Clen and ECA both have an effect on beta receptors. So cycling the two is never actually letting them recover.

[Sworder]

You could try the clen and see how you like it so you get your own opinion. Once again it doesn't do that much for me besides energy and cramps too

[RyanGreg]

Bad idea. Clen and ECA both have an effect on beta receptors. So cycling the two is never actually letting them recover.

Ok but still a 2 week on 2 week off is needed right?

How do i dose clen? Sorry for all the questions......

[Sworder]

Bad idea. Clen and ECA both have an effect on beta receptors. So cycling the two is never actually letting them recover.

2 weeks on Clen 2 weeks off/ 2 weeks on ECA 2 weeks off, i should have clarified I guess but by off I meant not doing anything

[RyanGreg]

You could try the clen and see how you like it so you get your own opinion. Once again it doesn't do that much for me besides energy and cramps too

Never had cramp in my life so don't know what to expect lol.