3rd Cycle: Test Cyp, Tren E, Mast E, Winnie

**Warrior_1** · 10-07-2012, 02:48 PM

For my next cycle I'm thinking:

1-12 Test E 400/wk
1-8 Tren E 245/wk
3-12 Mast E 400/wk
5-12 Winne 350/wk
3-12 hCG 500/wk

Or

1-12 Test E 250/wk
1-8 Tren E 245/wk
3-12 Mast E 400/wk
5-12 Winne 350/wk
3-12 hCG 500/wk

And PCT

The intention is run tren a little lower, but longer, than last time to keep prolactin and tren sides in check, and not hurt cardio too much, but take advantage of the amazing gains tren brings. ( i'm not even sure tren hurt my cardio that much last time. BP went up and cardio down before i even started the tren.)

Would like to run longer esters than prop and ace to avoid all the wasted time, hardware and product. I ran 50 ed (25x2) tren ace, which is 350/wk, so i can handle 245 no problem.

The idea with the second option is that I think that most of the negative aspects--High BP, poor cardio, water, mild fat gain--of my last cycle, were due to Test aromatizing and cause elevated estrogen. So, if i dont run as much test, i wouldn't need as much aromasine, etc to control the estrogen and i would just let the tren do more of the work. But not sure if 250 test and 245 tren are enough to give the lean mass gains i'm after. And i wouldn't want to run more tren because of its progestin nature and the associated rubber dick issue. So a balance is what I'm after with enough anabolics to get the job done.

The goal is lean mass. To perform well at my fall/winter/spring sport i cannot have excess water or fat weight. Enough water to keep the joints happy, so not extreme, but no bloat and must be as lean or a little leaner than i am now.

Which option and why? What would you change?

Anyone have any personal experience with Masteron ? How'd it go?

I've heard rumors that Tren E is often impure or, as they put it, "dirty" for some reason. How common is this? Anyone have actual knowledge/experience on this?

Thanks.

**austinite** · 10-07-2012, 02:57 PM

Welcome. Are you a TRT patient?

Also what is your Body fat % and the rest of your stats...?

**Lunk1** · 10-07-2012, 06:46 PM

Your tren should be run the same 12 weeks as your test. No reason to stop at 8 weeks especially since it takes 4-5 weeks to really see gains. Why shut down early?

What sides have you experienced from tren????

I prefer Tren higher than test for ex: Test 250mg EW/Tren 400-500 mg EW. Most of ppl sides come from the estro caused by the test. Doing this and a good AI will keep sides to a minimum.

What is your BF%??? Mast is a good finisher if you are very low BF% say under 12%. Other wise it is a complete waste!

As far as Tren E being "dirty" This is all dependent upon your gear...Hopefully NONE of it is dirty? The only thing that should be dirty is your women lol

**Warrior_1** · 10-07-2012, 11:05 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

Not on TRT
47 y.o.
Bodyfat is low, below 10% my whole life
Bodybuilding and/or training for one sport or another for decades
1st cycle test/deca (8 lbs muscle, no fat gain)
2nd cycle test/tren /Winnie (12 lbs, lost fat)

Good call on the tren length. i'd run it til the end if i went with the second option because there wouldn't be much anabolics at the end if i didnt. Thanks. i just copied and pasted and forgot to fix that part. Thanks tho for pointing it out.

Do you think with just 250 test (vs 400) i'll have libido or erection issues? So that's enough to avoid that? Would 300 be better?

Also, with the 250 test option do you think it even worth even doing the Mast?

Thanks.

**Lunk1** · 10-07-2012, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

Thanks for the feedback.

Not on TRT
47 y.o.
Bodyfat is low, below 10% my whole life
Bodybuilding and/or training for one sport or another for decades
1st cycle test/deca (8 lbs muscle, no fat gain)
2nd cycle test/tren /Winnie (12 lbs, lost fat)

Good call on the tren length. i'd run it til the end if i went with the second option because there wouldn't be much anabolics at the end if i didnt. Thanks. i just copied and pasted and forgot to fix that part. Thanks tho for pointing it out.

Do you think with just 250 test (vs 400) i'll have libido or erection issues? So that's enough to avoid that? Would 300 be better?

Also, with the 250 test option do you think it even worth even doing the Mast?

Thanks.

Yes 250 mg is plenty to keep normal sexual function and you will still see a huge labido increase from the tren as well. Most TRT is 250mg or less. The diff betwwen 250 and 300 will never be noticed.

Since your BF% is 10% you will love trhe hardening affects of Mast...just run it high 600-700mg EW

**Bulkn** · 10-07-2012, 11:25 PM

Tren should be stopped 2 weeks minimum before test so it has time to clear your system.

**Warrior_1** · 10-07-2012, 11:29 PM

Awesome. Thanks. So up on the tren and mast and do 250 test. should i keep the winnie? it sure was nice when i brought it on line during my last cycle. but I was doing more test (350-385) along side 350 tren. winnie sure smoothed edges off and brought the BP down i feel. but again that was a higher test dose than i plan to run this time. what do you think on the winnie?

and what about caber vs prami? i'm not sure the prami did a whole lot last cycle.

Thank you.

**Lunk1** · 10-07-2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bulkn

Tren should be stopped 2 weeks minimum before test so it has time to clear your system.

Please tell me why????

They are both the same ester length and will clear at the same time or nearly the same time.

**Lunk1** · 10-07-2012, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

Awesome. Thanks. So up on the tren and mast and do 250 test. should i keep the winnie? it sure was nice when i brought it on line during my last cycle. but I was doing more test (350-385) along side 350 tren. winnie sure smoothed edges off and brought the BP down i feel. but again that was a higher test dose than i plan to run this time. what do you think on the winnie?

and what about caber vs prami? i'm not sure the prami did a whole lot last cycle.

Thank you.

With tren I would def. keep Caber ON HAND but withan AI and keeping estro low you should not have any worries of prolactin.

I really dont like winne myself...causes me more joint pain...I prefer Var.
Either way the mast should harden you plenty with that low BF%.

I don't see an AI in your proposed cycle? Are you using one??? YES i hope! Adex or Aromasin???

**Warrior_1** · 10-07-2012, 11:54 PM

I have Aromasin . Last cycle i took it when i felt the slightest sensation in the nips. I'm seeing mixed info on that. Some say only take it if things get dire "so you don't hurt your gains" and others say take it every day no matter what.

then still others say take nolva while others flip out if u take nolva with nor19s then somebody rebuts saying thats just a myth. what is your recommendation?

**Lunk1** · 10-08-2012, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

I have Aromasin . Last cycle i took it when i felt the slightest sensation in the nips. I'm seeing mixed info on that. Some say only take it if things get dire "so you don't hurt your gains" and others say take it every day no matter what.

then still others say take nolva while others flip out if u take nolva with nor19s then somebody rebuts saying thats just a myth. what is your recommendation?

Use your Aromasin all the way through cycle. It will not hinder your gains in any way that you will notice. You need to keep estrogen at bay and this is the best way to do it. I never used it in the past but experienced high BP and other estro related sided like trouble maintaining an erection. Using an Ai has eliminated those problems for me.

**Bulkn** · 10-08-2012, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Please tell me why????

They are both the same ester length and will clear at the same time or nearly the same time.

I believe tren e takes longer.

OP if you go with the second option i would increase tren to atleast 400 or i dont think you will put enough mass on.

**Warrior_1** · 10-08-2012, 09:22 AM

I could see that cutting Tren E a little earlier than Test E might be beneficial IF un-estered Tren is metabolized much slower than un-estered Test (really fast). I have no idea about the half-life of un-estered Tren but I bet it's also really short or there wouldn't be any reason to ester it with Ace.

Also many ppl cut Tren a little early b/c they feel that Tren shuts down HPTA harder, so they stop a little early to help w pct. The problem is a lot of ppl do this even w/ Test Prop and Tren Ace even though the Acetate ester provides an even shorter half-life that Prop does. So Tren A plasma levels would naturally taper off faster than Test P plasma levels (provided that roughly the same dosages of each, or much less Tren A than T Prop was taken).

I fell into this trap with my last cycle and cut my Tren A a wk earlier than my T Prop so I missed out on a wk of good Tren gains, which in a good wk can easily be a pound of pure muscle (which is a lot at my size).

The Cyp ester provides a longer half-life than Enan so the Tren E plasma concentration will naturally taper of faster than the Test Cyp. So there's even less reason to stop the Tren before the end.

So with the excellent advice I've received from you all, my next cycle is shaping up to something like this:

1-10 Test C 250
1-10 Tren E 350-400
1-10 Mast E 400
2 -10 Winnie 350
3-10 Aromasin 12.5mg as needed, or ED/EOD if issues recur.

Last time i didn't need the Aromasin once the Winnie came on board, and this time i'm taking less Test and adding Mast so it seems reasonable that i'd be less likely to need much Aromasin this go around.

For what I'm used to there's a lot of milligrams of AAS in this cycle, which has me a little concerned about hair-loss. But hair-loss for me got to a point and just quit maybe 20 yr ago so maybe/hopefully I've already lost what I'm going to loose. Not sure so still a concern which is why I'm hesitant to run more than 400 Mast while I'm also running Tren and Winnie. Can't remember off hand if Winnie is has much potential to cause hair-loss or not and it seems like the opinions are conflicting. Regardless, there's 1350 mg/wk of gear which is 300 more than my last cycle and longer esters so again I'm a little hesitant to boost that Mast and have even more mg going on.

Thanks!

**Lunk1** · 10-08-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bulkn

I believe tren e takes longer.
OP if you go with the second option i would increase tren to atleast 400 or i dont think you will put enough mass on.

The half life of Test E and Tren E are the same although their are mixed reports on Trens half life. Because it is ot aromatizing it is reported that it actaully will clear a little faster than the test.

The theory of having to run test out longer makes 0 sense since they both shut you down and if you go off tren and stay on test for 2 weeks you will still be shutdown for that 2 weeks. It just simply is an old THEORY that one must run test out after tren

**Lunk1** · 10-08-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

I could see that cutting Tren E a little earlier than Test E might be beneficial IF un-estered Tren is metabolized much slower than un-estered Test (really fast). I have no idea about the half-life of un-estered Tren but I bet it's also really short or there wouldn't be any reason to ester it with Ace.

Also many ppl cut Tren a little early b/c they feel that Tren shuts down HPTA harder, so they stop a little early to help w pct. The problem is a lot of ppl do this even w/ Test Prop and Tren Ace even though the Acetate ester provides an even shorter half-life that Prop does. So Tren A plasma levels would naturally taper off faster than Test P plasma levels (provided that roughly the same dosages of each, or much less Tren A than T Prop was taken).

I fell into this trap with my last cycle and cut my Tren A a wk earlier than my T Prop so I missed out on a wk of good Tren gains, which in a good wk can easily be a pound of pure muscle (which is a lot at my size).

The Cyp ester provides a longer half-life than Enan so the Tren E plasma concentration will naturally taper of faster than the Test Cyp. So there's even less reason to stop the Tren before the end.

So with the excellent advice I've received from you all, my next cycle is shaping up to something like this:

1-10 Test C 250
1-10 Tren E 350-400
1-10 Mast E 400
2 -10 Winnie 350
3-10 Aromasin 12.5mg as needed, or ED/EOD if issues recur.

Last time i didn't need the Aromasin once the Winnie came on board, and this time i'm taking less Test and adding Mast so it seems reasonable that i'd be less likely to need much Aromasin this go around. Mast does not qualify as a strong enough AI that you should not run your Aromasin from beggining to end. Please do!
For what I'm used to there's a lot of milligrams of AAS in this cycle, which has me a little concerned about hair-loss. But hair-loss for me got to a point and just quit maybe 20 yr ago so maybe/hopefully I've already lost what I'm going to loose. Not sure so still a concern which is why I'm hesitant to run more than 400 Mast while I'm also running Tren and Winnie. Can't remember off hand if Winnie is has much potential to cause hair-loss or not and it seems like the opinions are conflicting. Regardless, there's 1350 mg/wk of gear which is 300 more than my last cycle and longer esters so again I'm a little hesitant to boost that Mast and have even more mg going on. Mast is very mild and will not be a causeof hair loss. Heridity causes hair loss! I would consider NOT running Mast at LESS than 500mg per week

Thanks!

Also I would consider running any long estered cycle for 12 weeks instead of 10. Lots of good gains can still be made in that last 2 weeks

**Warrior_1** · 10-08-2012, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Mast does not qualify as a strong enough AI that you should not run your Aromasin from beggining to end.

There you have it. Aromasin beginning to end it is.

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Also I would consider running any long estered cycle for 12 weeks instead of 10. Lots of good gains can still be made in that last 2 weeks

Totally makes sense. I'm in. It's what i wanted in the first place. And bumping Mast to 500.

Thanks a ton!

**Lunk1** · 10-08-2012, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

There you have it. Aromasin beginning to end it is.

Totally makes sense. I'm in. It's what i wanted in the first place. And bumping Mast to 500.

Thanks a ton!

Happy cycling...keep us posted with updates please

**Warrior_1** · 10-09-2012, 07:47 AM

Okay. So now my source is telling me he can't get Masteron . Should I go with Proviron instead (if he can get it), or is Mast so much better or different that I'd be better off getting the Mast from somewhere else?

Thank you.

**Lunk1** · 10-09-2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior_1

Okay. So now my source is telling me he can't get Masteron . Should I go with Proviron instead (if he can get it), or is Mast so much better or different that I'd be better off getting the Mast from somewhere else?

Thank you.

I really think you will be more than satisfied without either. Mast is just a finisher and if you just a gym rat for the ladies then its no big deal. Its's good for those ready to step on stage. Proviron is weaker than Mast and I would skip it!

If you really feel the need a little Var thrown in at the end instead of the Winny with Test/Tren is fantastic!

**Warrior_1** · 10-10-2012, 08:51 AM

I'm gonna stick with the Mast and just get it from somewhere else.

What do u think about adding a little Dbol to the beginning to get things rolling faster? I'm not attached to adding it, just curious. If I did I'd probably bring the Winnie in a little later to give the liver some time between the Dbol and Winnie.

I appreciate the feedback.

**Warrior_1** · 10-15-2012, 02:55 PM

I've decided that I am going to kick start this cycle with something to get results to come on sooner. Probably Tbol. The Test came in but it is Enan instead of Cyp. I'm thinking wks 1-3 on Tbol, or Dbol . Not sure about dosage yet, thinking 40-60 Tbol, or 20-30 Dbol at this point.

Any feedback? Thanks!