Looking for advice.

[GnarKill]

Hows everybody doin!? New to the site.. Came hopin I could find some legitimate advice from knowledgable people. I am thinkin it's about time to run a cycle. Here's some data for you.

I'm 25.
I ran var pills about 4 years ago. Don't remember specifics but low dose- didn't do a damn thing. I was young and ignorant- plain and simple.
About 2 years ago I ran sust270 I believe 2ml a week one on Monday one on thur. (I think) again I had no clue what I was doing. Listened to a friend. I got some serious strength gains. Maybe more of a mental thing maybe?
I've been lifting for 5 years. Serious with good diet for. 2-3
5'7" 170lbs 10% bf
I competed in the nabba Great Lakes open last year and the NPC midstates muscle classic and placed top 3 in both shows. I never plan on competing again. 3% bf = shit
I am a certified personal trainer, corrective exercise specialist and senior fall prevention coach at a nationally recognized hospital.
I want to gain some solid muscle with minimal Fat and as little sides as possible. Wishful thinking, huh? I'm looking to be 185 around the same bf%.. No specific time just sooner than later I guess.
Thoughts? And thanks in advance!

[Lunk1]

First is diet...EVERYONE says theirs is spot on but they usually still need some tweeking. I would start in the forum and once that has been dbl check then we can see what the next step might be. I mean even with AAS it's still a good thing to check the diet.

[panntastic]

Firstly welcome

You want to do a simple test e cycle 500mg a week for 10 weeks with a AI (aromatase inhibitor) and correct pct
Or
Test prop for 8 weeks but this means pinning every day or every other day depends if you like that kind of thing.

Congrats on the placings in them shows by the way

[stpete]

Welcome

As mentioned, some test always does a person good. Preferably 12 weeks w/test e. Nice and easy, very effective.

[GnarKill]

First is diet...EVERYONE says theirs is spot on but they usually still need some tweeking. I would start in the forum and once that has been dbl check then we can see what the next step might be. I mean even with AAS it's still a good thing to check the diet.

I appreciate the feedback. I will def check out that section of the forum.

[GnarKill]

Looking like nolvadex for my pct..

40mg daily for two weeks followed by
20mg daily for two weeks. Starting anywhere from 2-3 days after last pin to 2 weeks depending on ester.

Sound about right?

Can anyone fill me in a bit more on ai's? Options and preferences? Where to get it? (Over the counter options)
I'm good on goodies just not the other stufffff

I will still be doin my own research but appreciate opinions from vets.

[Lunk1]

Looking like nolvadex for my pct..

40mg daily for two weeks followed by
20mg daily for two weeks. Starting anywhere from 2-3 days after last pin to 2 weeks depending on ester.

Sound about right?



Can anyone fill me in a bit more on ai's? Options and preferences? Where to get it?

I will still be doin my own research but appreciate opinions from vets

You can get Liquidex from the the banner at the top...legit stuff. It's liquid Adex..use it at .25mg EOD throughout the cycle till last pin.

Also I would still recommend Clomid be run as well as the Nolva on your PCT

[GnarKill]

Anyone else have some input? All the advice I can get is greatly appreciated! I'm grabbin my goods Wednesday!

[Lunk1]

Anyone else have some input? All the advice I can get is greatly appreciated! I'm grabbin my goods Wednesday!

You don't like my advise man...ouch! It's all good! Good Luck!!

[GnarKill]

You don't like my advise man...ouch! It's all good! Good Luck!!

Hahahaha it's not even like that! I like to know my options when it comes to anything in life. You think I'm good with that cycle, ai and pct?

[Lunk1]

Hahahaha it's not even like that! I like to know my options when it comes to anything in life. You think I'm good with that cycle, ai and pct?

I have not seen you lay out a cycle yet...I have seen several suggestions. I was just screwing with ya by the way...second opinions are best, and 3rds and 4ths

[GnarKill]

I have not seen you lay out a cycle yet...I have seen several suggestions. I was just screwing with ya by the way...second opinions are best, and 3rds and 4ths

Test E 500mg/wk for 10 (maybe 12) weeks.
Pin 250 on Mondays and thurs
Ai: .25 liquidex eod from first shot to last
Pct: start 2 weeks after last pin
Clomid 150mg for two weeks
100mg for following two.

I have read (on this site) it is not necessary to run clomid AND nolvadex .. You said I should run both, could I get away w one or the other? $$$ is a small issue...

[Lunk1]

Test E 500mg/wk for 10 (maybe 12) weeks.
Pin 250 on Mondays and thurs
Ai: .25 liquidex eod from first shot to last
Pct: start 2 weeks after last pin
Clomid 50/25/25/25
Nolva 40/20/20/20

I have read (on this site) it is not necessary to run clomid AND nolvadex.. You said I should run both, could I get away w one or the other? $$$ is a small issue...

It is a good idea to run both...If you absolutley no way no how can run both then run the Nolva!

Corrections in BOLD

[stpete]

Damn it, Lunk. you gonna let me respond to anything?

Oh, i have to agree w/Lunk.

[Lunk1]

Damn it, Lunk. you gonna let me respond to anything?

Oh, i have to agree w/Lunk.

Tell him why it's a good idea to run both Clomid and Nolva Pete

Bsides, I was just trying to free you up so you have more cookies and MILK time!

[GnarKill]

Tell him why it's a good idea to run both Clomid and Nolva Pete

Bsides, I was just trying to free you up so you have more cookies and MILK time!

I'm waiting!? Lmao.. I really appreciate the advice guys..

[GnarKill]

Tell him why it's a good idea to run both Clomid and Nolva Pete

Bsides, I was just trying to free you up so you have more cookies and MILK time!

I'm waiting!? Lmao.. I really appreciate the advice guys..

[evander87]

$$$ is a small issue...

Just an FYI for me the cheapest part of a cycle is the AAS AI and PCT. If you want to bulk, food is going to cost you more than the compounds.

[Lunk1]

Just an FYI for me the cheapest part of a cycle is the AAS AI and PCT. If you want to bulk, food is going to cost you more than the compounds.

This is sooo true and most do not take into consideration. Even cutting is expensive. Good, whole foods are 100% neccessary and will make up the biggest percentage of the cost of cycling!

[GnarKill]

This is sooo true and most do not take into consideration. Even cutting is expensive. Good, whole foods are 100% neccessary and will make up the biggest percentage of the cost of cycling!

I spend about 500 a month on food between myself my fionce and our daughter. We eat very well. I have a lot of knowledge regarding nutrition and supplementation. Though I could always learn more. As of now I'm taking in 3000cals daily +-200.. I eat 6 meals a day generally 3 hours apart. I just prefer it that way anyway, not just for dieting purposes..

[Bouch]

Anyone else have some input? All the advice I can get is greatly appreciated! I'm grabbin my goods Wednesday!

Looks like the vets have it covered for ya. Lunk1 is very knowledgable, which is why you havent seen many others chiming in with there advise. since Lunk1's is spot on.

[JohnnyVegas]

This thread went perfectly. Good advice. No drama. My faith in humanity is restored.

[Lunk1]

This thread went perfectly. Good advice. No drama. My faith in humanity is restored.

I must be slipping in my old age (

[GnarKill]

Looks like the vets have it covered for ya. Lunk1 is very knowledgable, which is why you havent seen many others chiming in with there advise. since Lunk1's is spot on.

I figured.. Especially being that I saw him in damn near every other thread I read before creating my own thread! Lol

[GnarKill]

This thread went perfectly. Good advice. No drama. My faith in humanity is restored.

That's why I put all that info down on the table upfront. I saw so many threads that went south..

[Lunk1]

I appreciate Bouch's comment but you are still best to get multiple opinions and weigh the options for yourself. There are often many diff. ways to skin a cat and what works fro one is not always the best for another. There is so much real experience here that none of us ever stop learning! Good luck op!!

[GnarKill]

Again.. I really appreciate everything. Ill keep you all posted on how stuff goes.

[GnarKill]

Posted a pic to my "profile"... not showing up nor can I "see" my own profile. Why is this? Not a member long enough? shouldnt I be able to view my OWN profile? fill me in pls... Ive been working since 8 this morning just got off and dont have the patience or motivtion to look for myself. Off to bed- up again at 5. thanks gents. ps.. looks like im waiting till NEXT week for my goody bag. my source is too broke for his own treats lmao... pss if my pic is showing up for you guys.. its from 11m ago about 3 weeks prior to show. (im 20lbs fuller now =) -i like food.

[Lunk1]

Posted a pic to my "profile"... not showing up nor can I "see" my own profile. Why is this? Not a member long enough? shouldnt I be able to view my OWN profile? fill me in pls... Ive been working since 8 this morning just got off and dont have the patience or motivtion to look for myself. Off to bed- up again at 5. thanks gents. ps.. looks like im waiting till NEXT week for my goody bag. my source is too broke for his own treats lmao... pss if my pic is showing up for you guys.. its from 11m ago about 3 weeks prior to show. (im 20lbs fuller now =) -i like food.

Need 50 posts and 30 days I believe is the rule. If you want to post a pic for us to ogle over you can upload by clicking the icon next to the film looking icon at the top of the response box

[GnarKill]

So I'm FINALLY GTG! First pin tomorrow am =) I have one final question! How do I take my liquidex!? Can I mix it with water? Intra workout amino drink!? Just shoot it on my tongue!? All relies or experienceswith it are greatly appreciated!

[Lunk1]

So I'm FINALLY GTG! First pin tomorrow am =) I have one final question! How do I take my liquidex!? Can I mix it with water? Intra workout amino drink!? Just shoot it on my tongue!? All relies or experienceswith it are greatly appreciated!

Should have come with an oral dropper just measure and drink!

[GnarKill]

It's such a minuscule amount of liquid.. Can it be "chased?" Are there things I shouldn't mix it with? Empty stomach/full stomach? Sorry to be a bother. First pin was today I want to get everything going. Yes I know I should've asked this before hand! Didn't think about it until I looked at the 2 inch dropper

[Hukebuck]

I you got it from the banner up top it doesnt taste bad mine taste like blue rasberry kinda i dont chase mine but i have. I have to mix their clom in cranberry juice though. I dont know if it matters on empty or full ive never read that it matters

[TheClinch]

It's such a minuscule amount of liquid.. Can it be "chased?" Are there things I shouldn't mix it with? Empty stomach/full stomach? Sorry to be a bother. First pin was today I want to get everything going. Yes I know I should've asked this before hand! Didn't think about it until I looked at the 2 inch dropper

Dont sweat chasing it unless you cant stand the taste. Which happens to be good by the way. I usually just shoot it past my tongue ...

[TheClinch]

Did you sort out your pct protocol?

I dont see any revisions...

What are your plans regarding this?

[MickeyKnox]

I know im late in the game and Lunk has this covered. But i thought these links may help to support Lunks advice..


**Most Common Beginners Cycles**

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UJZv62fX_fs

[MickeyKnox]

“The following explains why it is prudent to use BOTH Nolvadex and Clomid together in your PCT. It is by Dr Scally - probably the foremost expert in the United States on this topic.” JimmyInk’dUp.

Med Hypotheses. 2009 Jun;72(6):723-8. Epub 2009 Feb 23.
Anabolic steroid -induced hypogonadism--towards a unified hypothesis of anabolic steroid action.
Tan RS, Scally MC.

Source
HPT/Axis Inc., 1660 Beaconshire Road, Houston, TX 77077, USA.

Abstract

Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism (ASIH) is the functional incompetence of the testes with subnormal or impaired production of testosterone and/or spermatozoa due to administration of androgens or anabolic steroids . Anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS), both prescription and nonprescription, use is a cause of ASIH. Current AAS use includes prescribing for wasting associated conditions. Nonprescription AAS use is also believed to lead to AAS dependency or addiction. Together these two uses account for more than four million males taking AAS in one form or another for a limited duration. While both of these uses deal with the effects of AAS administration they do not account for the period after AAS cessation. The signs and symptoms of ASIH directly impact the observation of an increase in muscle mass and muscle strength from AAS administration and also reflect what is believed to demonstrate AAS dependency. More significantly, AAS prescribing after cessation adds the comorbid condition of hypogonadism to their already existing chronic illness. ASIH is critical towards any future planned use of AAS or similar compound to effect positive changes in muscle mass and muscle strength as well as an understanding for what has been termed anabolic steroid dependency. The further understanding and treatments that mitigate or prevent ASIH could contribute to androgen therapies for wasting associated diseases and stopping nonprescription AAS use. This paper proposes a unified hypothesis that the net effects for anabolic steroid administration must necessarily include the period after their cessation or ASIH.

PMID: 19231088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Future treatments:

A treatment goal of HPTA restoration will have its basis in the regulation and control of testosterone production. The HPTA has two components, both spermatogenesis and testosterone production.

In males, luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion by the pituitary positively stimulates testicular testosterone (T) production; follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) stimulates testicular spermatozoa production. The pulsatile secretion of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus stimulates LH and FSH secretion. In general, absent FSH, there is no spermatozoa production; absent LH, there is no testosterone production. Regulation of the secretion of GnRH, FSH, and LH occurs partially by the negative feedback of testosterone and estradiol at the level of the hypothalamo-pituitary. Estradiol has a much larger, inhibitory effect than testosterone, being 200-fold more effective in suppressing LHsecretion.

In the case of ASIH, where the individual suffers from functional hypogonadism and the belief for eventual return of function, treatment is directed at HPTA restoration. A medical quandary for physicians presented with hypogonadal patients secondary to AAS administration is there is currently no FDA approved drug to restore
HPTA function. Standard treatment to this point has been testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ), conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or ‘‘do nothing”), or off-label prescribing of aromatase inhibitors or selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERM).

The primary drawback of testosterone replacement and hCG administration is that this therapy is infinite in nature. These treatments will remedy the signs and symptoms associated with hypogonadism, but do not alleviate the need for a life-long commitment to therapy. Further, administration serves to further HPTA suppression.

Conservative therapy (‘‘watchful waiting” or ‘‘do nothing”) is the probably worst case option as this does nothing to treat the patient with ASIH. Also, conservative therapy will have the undesirable result of the nonprescription AAS user to return to AAS use as a means to avoid ASIH signs and symptoms.

The aromatase inhibitors demonstrate the ability to cause an elevation of the gonadotropins and secondarily serum testosterone [62]. The administration of SERMs is a common treatment in attempts to restore the HPTA because they increase LH secretion from the pituitary that leads to increased local testosterone production
[63–67].

Guay has used clomiphene citrate as therapy for erection dysfunction and secondary hypogonadism. Patients received clomiphene citrate 50 mg per day for 4 months in an attempt to raise their testosterone level [68]. Clomiphene has been reported in a case study to reverse andropause secondary to anabolic–androgenic steroid use [69]. The patient received clomiphene citrate 50 mg twice per day in an attempt to raise his testosterone level. The patient when followed up after two months had a relapse, tiredness and loss of libido, after discontinuing clomiphene citrate. There are case study reports demonstrating the effectiveness of the combination of clomiphene and tamoxifen in HPTA restoration after stopping AAS administration [70–73]. Clomiphene is a mixture of the trans (enclomiphene) and is (zuclomiphene) enantiomers, which have opposite effects upon the estradiol receptor [74]. Enclomiphene is an estradiol antagonist, while zuclomiphene is an estradiol agonist. The addition of tamoxifen to clomiphene might be expected to increase the overall antagonism of the estradiol receptor.


"Clomiphene is an antiestrogen, which decreases the estrogen effect in the body. It has a dual effect by stimulating the hypothalamic pituitary area and it has an antiestrogenic effect, so that it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body. Tamoxifen is more of a strict antiestrogen; it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body, and potentiates the action of clomiphene. Tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate compete with estrogen for estrogen receptor binding sites, thus eliminating excess estrogen circulation at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary, allowing gonadotropin production to resume. Administering them together produces an elevation of LH and secondary gonadal sex hormones. " Dr Michael Scally

[MickeyKnox]

Did you sort out your pct protocol?

I dont see any revisions...

What are your plans regarding this?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...09#post6212109

[GnarKill]

I you got it from the banner up top it doesnt taste bad mine taste like blue rasberry kinda i dont chase mine but i have. I have to mix their clom in cranberry juice though. I dont know if it matters on empty or full ive never read that it matters

Thanks man..

[TheClinch]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...09#post6212109

Thanks for the link loop there. You really are the link master

Since he's ready to go tomorrow according to his post I figured it prudent to make sure he's good to go.

Great article to share by the way.