Feeling the juice

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-17-2012, 11:00 AM

I'n coming up on my next cycle and I'm going to do run it with a close buddy of mine. He is currently on AndroGel and I'm curious if anyone knows if he will notice that amazing kick that the Test provides when it kicks in. He is currently doing 4 pumps a day at 20.25mg of Test per pump. So thats 81mg of Test a day and we are going to do Prop at 150mg EOD. I'm not sure how different AndroGel is but it doesn't seem like there will be much of a difference for him, Anyone have an input on this?

**songdog** · 10-17-2012, 05:18 PM

Transdermal isnt as good as injecting.But if he has low T it will help.

**MuscleInk** · 10-17-2012, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21

I'n coming up on my next cycle and I'm going to do run it with a close buddy of mine. He is currently on AndroGel and I'm curious if anyone knows if he will notice that amazing kick that the Test provides when it kicks in. He is currently doing 4 pumps a day at 20.25mg of Test per pump. So thats 81mg of Test a day and we are going to do Prop at 150mg EOD. I'm not sure how different AndroGel is but it doesn't seem like there will be much of a difference for him, Anyone have an input on this?

Gels and patches usually deliver a lower baseline dose that remains stable, which many endocrinologists prefer over injections because its easier to administer and there aren't typically "peaks" in testosterone levels that occur with injections (although most TRT injections use such small doses that peak concentrations of testosterone are generally lower than that occurring on anabolic cycles with higher doses).

I doubt very much he will feel any dramatic effects however, even TRT doses should improve mood, energy, and libido. Supplementing with another long ester or a shorter one, at high enough doses would likely give him more of that "bump" you are referring to, but remember, anabolic agents aren't stimulants per se.

**Sworder** · 10-17-2012, 06:05 PM

@Bluewaffle Transdermal has a very low absorption, so he isn't getting 81mg testosterone /day. He will feel it

@MuscleInk I thought gels peak and valley a lot more providing a similar curve to the natural diurnal testosterone levels .

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-17-2012, 07:42 PM

Man I hope so!! I've been hyping it up for a while!

**MuscleInk** · 10-17-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

@Bluewaffle Transdermal has a very low absorption, so he isn't getting 81mg testosterone /day. He will feel it

@MuscleInk I thought gels peak and valley a lot more providing a similar curve to the natural diurnal testosterone levels.

Gels are supposed to provide a more stable dose with less peaks & valleys when applied according to prescription guidelines. Many of the endocrinologists I work with will only prescribe androgel . Of the TRT clinics that I've spoken to, their preference is weekly injections - my personal preference as well.

**Sworder** · 10-17-2012, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Gels are supposed to provide a more stable dose with less peaks & valleys when applied according to prescription guidelines. Many of the endocrinologists I work with will only prescribe androgel. Of the TRT clinics that I've spoken to, their preference is weekly injections - my personal preference as well.

Gotcha! Different gels/patches/compounding creams have a different release.

AD · 10-17-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

@Bluewaffle Transdermal has a very low absorption, so he isn't getting 81mg testosterone /day. He will feel it

@MuscleInk I thought gels peak and valley a lot more providing a similar curve to the natural diurnal testosterone levels.

yup. i think androgel is about 10% only. so thats 8mg a day.

**MuscleInk** · 10-18-2012, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Gotcha! Different gels/patches/compounding creams have a different release.

Correct!

Before I started TRT I spoke to five endocrinologists I know and all were advocates of gel/creams for the reasons mentioned. I certainly understand why many people would chose topicals over injections (trypanophobia, ease of application, costs, AI management, etc.).

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-18-2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by asiandude

yup. i think androgel is about 10% only. so thats 8mg a day.

That's crazy if this info is spot on!!

**warmouth** · 10-18-2012, 11:34 AM

Gels and creams are not very good. I have been prescribed Androgel , Testerim,and Axiron. Used them for a year and never felt a change. When I first used injectable Test, it made all the difference in the world. I am still prescribed Axiron, but I dont use it. I stick to Cyp @125mgs weekly and there has been a world of change.

**Brohim** · 10-18-2012, 12:05 PM

Some guys don't absorb gel very well at all and have no effect. Some guys do well with gel and can get their Test levels at 1000ng/dl consistently each day. Couple that with no AI use and it seems like a great way to go.

@OP I would suggest your buddy do 100mg per day as gel will only absorb 10% so he will be getting 10mg of test per day which should elevate his test level to 1,000ng/dl (if he is a good absorber) which is at the top of the range for a healthy 18yo male. I also read that applying a moistener cream on top of the gel could increase absorption rate.

As far as the Prop, yes he should feel it as at 150mg EOD his levels will probably double or more.

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-18-2012, 02:15 PM

Maybe we will up it to 175 or 200 EOD just to make sure!!!

**Sworder** · 10-18-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21

Maybe we will up it to 175 or 200 EOD just to make sure!!!

No, why? What are his stats?

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-18-2012, 03:43 PM

He is a beast! 32, 5'8" maybe and 173lbs with low BF. The guy is a machine and has plenty of years experience with diet and training. He's been on the gel for almost a year now.

**Sworder** · 10-18-2012, 04:43 PM

525mg Test Prop/week(150mg EOD) should be more than enough!

**Brohim** · 10-18-2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21

He is a beast! 32, 5'8" maybe and 173lbs with low BF. The guy is a machine and has plenty of years experience with diet and training. He's been on the gel for almost a year now.

Why is he on TRT at 32?

**BlueWaffle21** · 10-18-2012, 06:10 PM

He had low test and ED issues after his deployment to Afghanistan

**< <Samson> >** · 10-18-2012, 06:26 PM

Does Androgel shut you down like the real sauce? Or does it pyle up with your naturally produced test?

I just thought of this. Because if it added, that would be nice if your natural production is already fairly high + some added would be damn near cycle test dose.

**Sworder** · 10-18-2012, 06:32 PM

Shuts you down!

**< <Samson> >** · 10-18-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Shuts you down!

Damn it, I thought I was onto something.

AD · 10-18-2012, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by asiandude

yup. i think androgel is about 10% only. so thats 8mg a day.

Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21

That's crazy if this info is spot on!!

para 3.2.1

Bioavailability of testosterone from the testosterone gel was estimated to be 9 – 14%

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Advisor.../UCM166950.pdf