How much of my AI should I really use and How much estrogen is ENOUGH?! (Test Cycle)

**Anabolick** · 10-17-2012, 03:15 PM

My body, no matter how clean I eat, just bloats too damn much if I'm eating 400+ carbs a day (200p/520c/70f). I'm worried because with test, my estrogen levels will even be higher.

The question is how much of my A-dex should I use...I hear that you need estrogen to make gains but how much is enough? What if I still have bad bloating on .5 eod? Will more A-dex = less bloat= less gains?

Overall question: How much estrogen does one truly need to continue building quality muscle and how much of my AI should i use if the bloating doesn't go down.

Possible solutions: Incorporate cardio but I really don't want to do this, I'm already spending a lot of time in the gym (long rest times for them hypertrophy + strength gains) and would love to use adex alone to fix my bloating issue

**Anabolick** · 10-17-2012, 03:19 PM

oh and i realize it sounds kind of confusing, if anyone has a question on what i'm trying to say, please ask and help

**austinite** · 10-17-2012, 03:22 PM

Away from 0 and under 39 pg/mL

Bloodwork is how I gauge my AI dose. Anything else is a guessing game...

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 03:24 PM

For new guys I recommend Aromasin vs Adex, its not as harmfull and easier to tweak.

**kelkel** · 10-17-2012, 03:27 PM

Agree with Austinite. BW is your key here. And when you test E2 it needs to be a sensitive assay. No fasting required.

Read this on Estrogen and it's importance. Don't negate it due to the title saying "aging male."

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/...ing-Men_01.htm

kel

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 03:32 PM

Yes blood work is Key, but what are you running, are you on cycle now, how old are you, what are your stats and how many cycles have your run before?

**Anabolick** · 10-17-2012, 03:44 PM

Damn, bloodwork is very expensive where I live....Ahh, guess thats the way to go then. Going to get BW done a few weeks into cycle and no I havn't started yet.

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolick

Damn, bloodwork is very expensive where I live....Ahh, guess thats the way to go then. Going to get BW done a few weeks into cycle and no I havn't started yet.

Ok good to hear, how old are you? If you get blood work post everything we can steer you in the right direction.

**t-dogg** · 10-17-2012, 04:47 PM

Why is your calories like this? (200p/520c/70f)

**Sworder** · 10-17-2012, 04:51 PM

@t-dogg It's grams of each.

Try lowering your carbs, a lot of guys like to go heavy on the protein and (healthy)fats to achieve a lean bulk.

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 04:52 PM

Guys pump the brakes we wont even know what he is on right now. And he is 22, he needs to be refered to the new sub forum 18-25.

**t-dogg** · 10-17-2012, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

@t-dogg It's grams of each.

Try lowering your carbs, a lot of guys like to go heavy on the protein and (healthy)fats to achieve a lean bulk.

lol i know that. Just seems alittle odd to me. Running over 500grams of carbs with 200grams of protein seems high/low.

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 05:20 PM

Guys this is a mess, he is 22, we dont have any accurate information on his cycle that he is running, and we are running blind. Get some solid answers before furthering advice based on hypothetical. Diet/Caloric Intake/AI all need to be determined off the compounds he is running currently or going to run.

About Anabolick
Age:
22
Height:
6'2
Weight:
181 morning weight (dry) can fluctuates up to 185+ lbs
Body Fat %:
8
Training Experience:
13 months
Cycle Experience:
none

**Phased** · 10-17-2012, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Phased

Guys this is a mess, he is 22, we dont have any accurate information on his cycle that he is running, and we are running blind. Get some solid answers before furthering advice based on hypothetical. Diet/Caloric Intake/AI all need to be determined off the compounds he is running currently or going to run.

About Anabolick
Age:
22
Height:
6'2
Weight:
181 morning weight (dry) can fluctuates up to 185+ lbs
Body Fat %:
8
Training Experience:
13 months
Cycle Experience:
none

Dosages as well..Test Only...but what dose?

**MuscleInk** · 10-17-2012, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Phased

Dosages as well..Test Only...but what dose?

I agree with Phased and the other gentlemen. More information is necessary about OP, stats, cycle, compounds, etc.

There are standard protocols for AI dosing BUT, the actual AI dose needed may vary across individuals as well as the cycle compounds and doses being used. If you're running a compound like Sustanon400 at very high doses (e.g. 2400 mg/wk) a dose of .25-.5 Adex EOD may be less effective at managing estrogen compared to femara or aromasin . At lower doses of anabolics, the normal Adex protocol may suffice.

WRT choice of AI, my preference is generally to start with Adex and move to femara (letro) or aromasin (exemestane) if Adex isn't working. Side effects with Adex are generally milder, it acts quickly, and has a reasonably long half life. I refrain from aromasin unless my E2 levels aren't responding to Adex. This is more a personal choice as I prefer to avoid a "suicide inhibitor" like aromasin, an irreversible steroidal inhibitor which forms a permanent and deactivating bond with the aromatase enzyme, unless absolutely necessary; but I realize it is the AI of choice for many because of its efficacy.

**Anabolick** · 10-17-2012, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Phased

Guys this is a mess, he is 22, we dont have any accurate information on his cycle that he is running, and we are running blind. Get some solid answers before furthering advice based on hypothetical. Diet/Caloric Intake/AI all need to be determined off the compounds he is running currently or going to run.

About Anabolick
Age:
22
Height:
6'2
Weight:
181 morning weight (dry) can fluctuates up to 185+ lbs
Body Fat %:
8
Training Experience:
13 months
Cycle Experience:
none

Wow man, you went on my account to copy all my info and didn't even look at the multiple times I've outlined my cycle in my other posts/threads? Shame on you fool.

and noted MuscleInk, since I'm running only 500 mg a week, I won't go over .5 ED/EOD.

**MadRunner** · 10-18-2012, 12:38 AM

Can I hijack here? Its related! .....
39 yo
Test E 300 mg/wk to support 4 iu/HGH ED.

My sides are relatively under control. Except the bloating. Adex at .25mg made me so tired after a single dose. Cut it down to .125 (quarter of a quarter tab), E3D to prevent nipple pain, etc. I can tolerate that dose as far as the adex sides I experience (sore joints and lethargy) but I am still more bloated than I want to be.

Hydration is spot on! Carbs intake is limited.

5 weeks into cycle have gained 3 kg with very little gym work. I am an endurance athlete. The cardio is there! ...... My goal on the cycle was leaner, faster stronger - as related to endurance sport! .. I am now heavier, slower ..... I am stronger. But I need, desperately, need leaner and faster to come into play!

So back to the main point of the thread and of my post -- controlling bloating, if bloating is the only side of the E cycle and Adex too heavy ED. (btw next round of BW coming this week).

Not interested in adding clen , tren , zen or fren and any other of the 12 dwarfs or apostles. I was on t4, but felt it not worth the heart risk.

Again, sorry to hijack, but felt it was on point enough to add!

looking forward to well informed answers!

thanks gang

**Ugloz** · 10-18-2012, 06:39 AM

Just because you don't get nipple pain doesn't mean to say your estrogen isn't sky high. Like the first few guys said bloodwork is everything

I would love to see adex get anyone's e2 in range running above 500mg test it just doesn't happen

**MadRunner** · 10-18-2012, 09:57 AM

cheers, Ugloz! Thanks for the input! BW comments aside, you seem to know a bit about adex and test .. what are your recommendations then since you dont seem to think adex alone would do the trick.