Which Test to start with?

[joegunner]

Its still a few months of trying to lean out before i get on my first cycle.
Looking to do a Test only cycle but not sure on the test.

Want to put on as much lean muscle as possible, should i stack it with winstrol/stana or Deca?
Also which Test do i use? does it matter?

As always your advice is highly appreciated

[austinite]

If you want to do a test only cycle, why are you asking what to stack it with? I'm very confused.

Is this your first cycle? What are your stats?

[joegunner]

This is my first Cycle.
Well as a begginer im not too sure, ive read stuff on this forums and its confused me.

There was a topic i read saying that you should only do test but further in the article it says to stack it with Deca.
I'm just searching for the best advice.

5'10
80 KGS
not sure on body fat but hoping to get it a low as i can within the next 3-4 months.

[austinite]

Body fat is one of the most important stats that I need...

Test only for a first cycle. What I would do, is check out the educational threads, do a bit of research and propose a cycle for critique. It's a bit cumbersome to write a cycle for someone - give us a sample of what you've researched and I'll be happy to guide you through it.

[joegunner]

Thanks Austinite.
I've done quiet a bit off reading.
People suggesting to start with Test Prop, Some saying Test Cyp is better. Just not sure on which one to select.
Once i know which one to look at then ill go into the dosage, What would you recommend?
BF would be sitting around 15-17% at the moment Could be less but gave a larger figure.

[bodybuilder]

Well its a good thing you want to drop bf, the lower the better. First cycle should always be test only, so no dont stack anything. How old are you by the way?

[joegunner]

thanks. Yeah i would like to get as lean as possible then maybe do a 10 week cycle (Rough figure not too sure)
Im currently 24

[bodybuilder]

Kinda young but at least you are trying to do things the right way. Go with test c bro, this way u can get used to pinning. With prop you will be pinning a lot more frequently.

[austinite]

Thanks Austinite.
I've done quiet a bit off reading.
People suggesting to start with Test Prop, Some saying Test Cyp is better. Just not sure on which one to select.
Once i know which one to look at then ill go into the dosage, What would you recommend?
BF would be sitting around 15-17% at the moment Could be less but gave a larger figure.

Look here and tell me where you are approx.

[joegunner]

Kinda young but at least you are trying to do things the right way. Go with test c bro, this way u can get used to pinning. With prop you will be pinning a lot more frequently.

Thanks for the input.
Are all the Test the same in effectiviness? or are some stronger / has different effects/side effects?

Austinite, that picture will not load for some reason.

[rayman21]

test cypionate is your best bet, and do a test only cycle for your first cycle so you know how your body reacts to the test and plus because its only one compound then side effects are easier to control. i would recommend around 300-400mg/week split by 2 injections, one on sunday and one on wednesday evening. also if you think you may be gyno prone, you should take an aromitase inhibitor (AI), and arimidex is a good solution for this. try 0.25mg (so you have to cut the tablets into quarters) every other day (EOD) to start off and take it from there. also, 14 days or 18days after your final injection begin your PCT post cycle therapy. this should consist of nolvadex 40mg/day for the 1st 2weeks then 20mg/day for the last 2weeks. also take some clomid 50mg/day 1st 2weeks and 25mg/day last 2weeks (cut tablets in half). dont listen to everyone saying you need to stack compounds etc there is no need for this yet! also EAT! and train hard! but if you want to cut then thats fine as the test should help you keep the most muscle while you lose fat.

[joegunner]

test cypionate is your best bet, and do a test only cycle for your first cycle so you know how your body reacts to the test and plus because its only one compound then side effects are easier to control. i would recommend around 300-400mg/week split by 2 injections, one on sunday and one on wednesday evening. also if you think you may be gyno prone, you should take an aromitase inhibitor (AI), and arimidex is a good solution for this. try 0.25mg (so you have to cut the tablets into quarters) every other day (EOD) to start off and take it from there. also, 14 days or 18days after your final injection begin your PCT post cycle therapy. this should consist of nolvadex 40mg/day for the 1st 2weeks then 20mg/day for the last 2weeks. also take some clomid 50mg/day 1st 2weeks and 25mg/day last 2weeks (cut tablets in half). dont listen to everyone saying you need to stack compounds etc there is no need for this yet! also EAT! and train hard! but if you want to cut then thats fine as the test should help you keep the most muscle while you lose fat.

Thank you for the very detailed response.
Few questions, hope you dont mind.

Do i only do the AI / Nolvadex for 4 weeks through the cycle? Also how long would the cycle be for test cyp?

I read people taking AI/NOLVADEX and Clomid throughout the whole cycle, is this not required on my first cycle?

[Metalject]

Thanks for the input.
Are all the Test the same in effectiviness? or are some stronger / has different effects/side effects?

Austinite, that picture will not load for some reason.

All testosterones are the same in terms of benefits and side effects. What makes a test different is the ester attached, which simply regulates the release of the hormone. Now depending on the form of test you choose, small ester testosterones will be more potent on a per milligram basis than larger esters as the larger ester takes up more mass in the compound. But it's not a massive difference in the grand scheme of things and doses can easily be adjusted to receive the same amount of active testosterone with any form you choose.

On the side effect side, some say estrogenic side effects are less likely with compounds like testosterone propionate, but this is more myth than anything else. The testosterone doesn't become active in the body until the ester is detached, once it is you're left with the same testosterone regardless of the original ester that was attached.

In the end, choosing a basic testosterone is normally based on injection frequency. There can be some exceptions or other things to consider when you get into big time cycles, especially competitor cycles, but standard cycles are pretty simple.

[rayman21]

Thank you for the very detailed response.
Few questions, hope you dont mind.

Do i only do the AI / Nolvadex for 4 weeks through the cycle? Also how long would the cycle be for test cyp?

I read people taking AI/NOLVADEX and Clomid throughout the whole cycle, is this not required on my first cycle?

no the AI and nolvadex are separate things. you take the AI when your are taking the testosterone 0.25mg EOD, and you take the nolvadex 14-18days after your FINAL INJECTION. you also stop taking the arimidex when you take your last injection. test you should run for approx 1-12weeks, and take clomid also AFTER YOUR CYCLE. and yes you do take AI throughout the cycle but not nolva clomid this is unneeded on cycle unless you get gyno type symptoms which you wont get aslong as you take the AI and a the dose i stated 300-400mg

[joegunner]

Also inregards to body fat percentage. Judging from the photo it might be closer to 20% nearly all of my fat is around my mid section though so its a little hard to judge.

[austinite]

Also inregards to body fat percentage. Judging from the photo it might be closer to 20% nearly all of my fat is around my mid section though so its a little hard to judge.

Great. It's not terribly bad! I would certainly work on getting down to the mid teens before you cycle anything so that you can avoid increased side effects. Plus you will see MUCH better results in the mirror if you start with a lower BF.

Best of luck to you, joe. Right now I would hit the nutrition forum and allow the pro's there to critique your diet so that you can maximize your results and do it effectivley. Shouldnt take you long to get below 16 %!

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks for the input.
Are all the Test the same in effectiviness? or are some stronger / has different effects/side effects?

Austinite, that picture will not load for some reason.

Test is test man. The different esters attached to the test affect the water solubility and fat solubility as well. The ester basically forces the steroid to form a deposit in the muscle tissue you injected to and slowly release in to the blood. The longer the ester (prop being on the short end and enthanate and cypionate being on the longer end) the less solubility the steroid has to water and so the slower it is picked up by the body.

Basically, the longer esters take more time to build up to your peak level in your blood stream (since they take longer to enter the blood), so you end up having to run longer cycles to get the results. The downside to using shorter esters like Prop (or test without an ester) is that you have to inject more frequently and the cycles are more expensive. But with short esters, you can also run shorter cycles since you get results sooner.

There is a lot more to it, but as far as side-effects go, some people claim there is more water retention with longer esters. I've used both and I didn't notice that. I think their problem is in their AI dosing schedule and their diets.

[joegunner]

So How long would your cycle be with a short esters compared to less ester or none?

[austinite]

So How long would your cycle be with a short esters compared to less ester or none?

short = 8
long = 12

generally...

[joegunner]

short = 8
long = 12

generally...

Ok cool thanks.
Ima do a little more reading and put together a cycle for judging

Ill be back shortly!

[austinite]

Ok cool thanks.
Ima do a little more reading and put together a cycle for judging

Ill be back shortly!

Great idea, looking forward to it

[rayman21]

Ok cool thanks.
Ima do a little more reading and put together a cycle for judging

Ill be back shortly!

good idea do alot of reading and as austinite said looking forward to your return

[Honkey_Kong]

Ok cool thanks.
Ima do a little more reading and put together a cycle for judging

Ill be back shortly!

This is a good idea. The more reading you do, the better you can prepare to/decide whether to or not do a cycle. That'll help you maximize your gains while minimizing your risks.

[joegunner]

Weird i cant post my post that ive been writing up, says that there is some spam detected. I'll try altering it.
Anyways Is HCG only injectable?

[Honkey_Kong]

Weird i cant post my post that ive been writing up, says that there is some spam detected. I'll try altering it.
Anyways Is HCG only injectable?

Yes, but not just that it has to be reconstituted. That stuff you see at stores like GNC is NOT HCG.

[joegunner]

Ok Guys there are 2 cycle's im considering. Not 100% sure on how to implement AI's into the 1st cycle.
Im also not sure on which test to use but i wrote this up with Test E.

1st one, i wrote up with just information found.
Week 1-12: Test E 300mg/week ///**(Changed to 300mg/week twice from 500mg after some reading)***\\\
Week 8-13 1/2: 125-250ius HGC every 4 days/week
Not sure how to implelment AI into this.
2 Weeks after cycle complete
PCT Clomid 100/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/20/20/20 for 4 Weeks


2nd one i found throughout these forums. (Might of been austinite's advice not sure lol)
Week 1 - 12 - Test E @ 400mg per week (200mg twice weekly, like Mon/Thu)
Week 1 - 12 - Adex @ 0.25 EOD or E3D(This is to control elevated estrogen levels) Armimidex or Anastrozole.
Week 1 - 12 - HCG @ 250 iu, twice weekly. (Helps recovery and prevents testicular atrophy)
Week 14 - 18 - Clomid 75/50/50/50
Week 14 - 18 - Novla 40/20/20/20

Does the HCG need to be a particular day? Also is EOD and E3D = Each other day and every 3rd day?
Please rate



EDIT---
Would it be unwise to start on test below 300mg to see how my body reacts? will i still get some improvements from it?
I was thinking my first cycle to be low test and ease it up slowly.

[joegunner]

Just giving this thread a nudge.

[ghettoboyd]

i like the second one as it has you running the hcg and a.i. through out the entire cycle...

[joegunner]

Would it be beneficial to run Test P for 8 weeks instead of Test E for 12?

[SBEONE]

Would it be beneficial to run Test P for 8 weeks instead of Test E for 12?

^^ I would go with no. Most people find the latter part of the cycle (8 wk +) where a substantial part of gains occur. The only benefit of a shorter cycle would be the safety aspect i.e less chance of sides and long term sides if you decide to cycle often.

Theres a really good post http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UIj_zFLYjtQ <<< outlines everything about shorter cycles and the benefits .

In summary you will see less lean muscle gains immediatley, less chance of sides/L.T sides. And you repeat cycles more often 8 weeks on 8 weeks off. Instead of 12 on , 12 off.

I would go with Test C of Test E. Think someone already mentioned above. The main difference between Testosterone types is the ester length. Without getting too complex it is the length of time the AAS is active in your body. As Test P is the shortest you will have to pin more often.

Someone probably wrote above but just incase they haven't. The concensus on best BF level to start cycle on is 15% and below. Reason being as BF increases eostrogen aromatases more easy so you will have more trouble with sides/fat/.

[joegunner]

Im just doing as much reading as i can, so im not unprepared for anything that comes my way. At my current rate Early Jan is looking like the start of my cycle.
It will also give me time to get everything sorted.
Ill be sure to post here if i need anything else. As always thanks!

[Honkey_Kong]

Im just doing as much reading as i can, so im not unprepared for anything that comes my way. At my current rate Early Jan is looking like the start of my cycle.
It will also give me time to get everything sorted.
Ill be sure to post here if i need anything else. As always thanks!

For somebody's first cycle, Test C or E I would recommend simple because you don't have to pin yourself as often. Plus test P shots hurt more than E or C typically.

Do you have any bloodwork done yet? You need to get some done if you haven't so you know where your body naturally is at before you start messing with your hormone levels. This will let you know when you get your bloodwork done AFTER cycle if you've recovered or not.

[joegunner]

Ideally what are the mainthings im asking for on my bloodwork? Hormone levels?

[Honkey_Kong]

Let's see:

CBC
LH
TSH
Estradiols
Free and total Testosterone
lipid panel
You also might want to get your creatinine levels checked (when you're not using creatine).

[reconjeep]

Would it be beneficial to run Test P for 8 weeks instead of Test E for 12?

What I did for my first time was test E 12 weeks 250mg x twice a week. I don’t think you need to mix it with anything else but bottom line that’s your call and you’re going to do what you want to do all we can do is give you advice. What I seen from my first cycle was big strength gains. I didn’t want to be on the cover of a fitness mag or be ready for beach season. I want to jack a lot of steel my job requires me to be strong.so I tailored my work out and diet around that. Fast recovery time was also a plus, but remember even though you don’t feel soar or think you need time off you have to give you self some time off to let your body recover.

Watch your diet. Look at the FITNESS and NUTRITION FORUM
NUTRITION RESOURCE FORUM TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure and Bodybuilding Foods Macronutrient Chart
Bottom line is if you take in more cals than you are burning then you’re not going to lose. The key for you is diet and hard work at the Gym.

If you want abs like austinite’s its a lot of hard work. Just by pinning yourself isn’t the answer, if it was that easy then everyone would look that good.
Diet ie.. What you eat
Gym ie.. How hard you work out

[joegunner]

Thanks for the advice man.
I'm under no expressions that it's as easy as pinning. And I'm not going to start any cycle till I have all I need (AI and PCT).
Also I'll only be doing test only cycle and if I do another and that's a big if it will still only consist of test.

I take all your advice very seriously