1st cycle, looking for some advice

**TheObserver** · 10-31-2012, 05:28 AM

Hi,

I'm 27 year old male. My stats are: 6’0”, 182lbs, ~11% BF. It's been already 1 month since, I'm on my first cycle, which looks like this:

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg (250mg on Monday mornings and 250mg on Thursday evenings)
Week 13-14 Off
Week 15-18 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Week 15-18 Clomid 100/50/50/25

So far everything is great, I'm getting already nice strength gains and also my body weight is going up, which for me as ectomorph is pretty great. The only problem I'm starting to worry about is, that in last few days I feel my nipples are getting a bit sensitive, in particularly sometimes when I'm in shower or sometimes even I can feel them when I put my t-shirt on. So I'm starting to worry about possible test-e side effect - Gynecomastia . Is it normal or I should start using some kind of AI? Friend of mine suggested to use Proviron , however by reading a lot of forums many suggest Arimidex . What are your suggestions in my case?

Thanks a lot for any advice & GL with your targets!

**Sfla80** · 10-31-2012, 06:00 AM

Arimidex .25 eod. Depending on tenderness and soreness might bump to Ed or .5 eod. Should have been running this since day 1. Saved your self the troubles.

**Bigherm21** · 10-31-2012, 06:02 AM

Yeah a low dose is all I ever do. Helps out but just be careful you don't do to much ai. Keep an eye out for sides. Loss of libido, achy joins and so forth.

AD · 10-31-2012, 06:05 AM

if you're quite sure its the starting of gyno, you may need to use both adex and nolva at the same time.

**fit2bOld** · 10-31-2012, 06:19 AM

Get on the arimidex asap .25 eod.

**Buster Brown** · 10-31-2012, 06:56 AM

You may want to read up on the" everything you need to know about gyno" stickie to help you out as well as implementing an AI asap and having Nolv handy.

**TheObserver** · 10-31-2012, 11:02 AM

Thanks. Is there also any other good alternative of Arimidex ? I asked my local dealer and he's not selling this one. Also its not like I got sensitive nipples all day along, for example today everything is ok, so maybe I'm just too worried about it and I should look, how things go in next 1-2 weeks? At the moment I got only nolva, but I guess its not the best option during cycle...

**MuscleInk** · 10-31-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by TheObserver

Thanks. Is there also any other good alternative of Arimidex? I asked my local dealer and he's not selling this one. Also its not like I got sensitive nipples all day along, for example today everything is ok, so maybe I'm just too worried about it and I should look, how things go in next 1-2 weeks? At the moment I got only nolva, but I guess its not the best option during cycle...

Sensitive nipples is likely the least of your concerns if you're not running an AI. Unless you know for absolutely sure that your estrogen levels remain low on cycle (which they likely are not), you should certainly run an AI. As estrogen levels increase, the risk for stroke, DVTs, or an MI increases significantly. Many other risks exist but these are the most significant.

Letrozole (femara) and exemestane (aromasin ) are a few alternative AIs. It's important to take appropriate doses. Both of these are pretty harsh and come with some risks but you are safer to run a short course of an AI on cycle than to not, IMO.

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by TheObserver

Hi,

I'm 27 year old male. My stats are: 6’0”, 182lbs, ~11% BF. It's been already 1 month since, I'm on my first cycle, which looks like this:

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg (250mg on Monday mornings and 250mg on Thursday evenings)
Week 13-14 Off
Week 15-18 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Week 15-18 Clomid 100/50/50/25

So far everything is great, I'm getting already nice strength gains and also my body weight is going up, which for me as ectomorph is pretty great. The only problem I'm starting to worry about is, that in last few days I feel my nipples are getting a bit sensitive, in particularly sometimes when I'm in shower or sometimes even I can feel them when I put my t-shirt on. So I'm starting to worry about possible test-e side effect - Gynecomastia . Is it normal or I should start using some kind of AI? Friend of mine suggested to use Proviron , however by reading a lot of forums many suggest Arimidex . What are your suggestions in my case?

Thanks a lot for any advice & GL with your targets!

Another one. Gawd help those that are to lazy to read and research. And the best part is, you KNOW you should have included it because you mentioned it in your post!? I'll never understand that.

Good luck. And next time, use your head before you begin.

**MuscleInk** · 10-31-2012, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

Another one. Gawd help those that are to lazy to read and research. And the best part is, you KNOW you should have included it because you mentioned it in your post!? I'll never understand that.

Good luck. And next time, use your head before you begin.

Seems like its becoming more rampant lately. Lots of folks claim they've done their research but its transparent those that have and those that have not. I wish more people would devote more time to understanding the proper use and risks of hormone manipulation.

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 02:04 PM

^^ Hallelujah brother..

**songdog** · 10-31-2012, 03:07 PM

I hope you stopped by the diet section and posted your diet prior to starting this cycle.Beacuse you are really light for your size.And while you may put on some weight during this cycle if your eating habits dont change you will lose it.

**BadBoys** · 10-31-2012, 03:11 PM

That is way too much test bro for a first cycle. 250 will be perfect for u and will do great for a first timer especially at your age. It's just like anything else when u first smoke a joint or take a pain pill u don't require that much for it to do its Job but as u do it more your body requires more to get same effect. Also don't think u will add a lot of mass without free weights and most importantly is your calorie and protein intake. You could take all the test u want and kill yourself working out but if u don't eat enough clean food with high protein don't wasted your time taking it. You have to take in 1.5 to 2 times more than your body weight in protein

**MuscleInk** · 10-31-2012, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoys

That is way too much test bro for a first cycle. 250 will be perfect for u and will do great for a first timer especially at your age. It's just like anything else when u first smoke a joint or take a pain pill u don't require that much for it to do its Job but as u do it more your body requires more to get same effect. Also don't think u will add a lot of mass without free weights and most importantly is your calorie and protein intake. You could take all the test u want and kill yourself working out but if u don't eat enough clean food with high protein don't wasted your time taking it. You have to take in 1.5 to 2 times more than your body weight in protein

I respectfully disagree. 250mg/wk is tantamount to a TRT dose and at that dose he'll be shutting down his natural levels and replacing it with a synthetic dose that won't elevate his levels much past his current natural level, unless his endogenous levels are suppressed already. It would be pointless for him to do what you are recommending.

**TheObserver** · 10-31-2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Sensitive nipples is likely the least of your concerns if you're not running an AI. Unless you know for absolutely sure that your estrogen levels remain low on cycle (which they likely are not), you should certainly run an AI. As estrogen levels increase, the risk for stroke, DVTs, or an MI increases significantly. Many other risks exist but these are the most significant.

Letrozole (femara) and exemestane (aromasin) are a few alternative AIs. It's important to take appropriate doses. Both of these are pretty harsh and come with some risks but you are safer to run a short course of an AI on cycle than to not, IMO.

Ok, I will try to get one of those. Btw is it worth to try first 10 mg of Nolva like its suggested in novice steroid cycle I, which is posted on this site and if it doesn't help then go for AI?

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoys

That is way too much test bro for a first cycle. 250 will be perfect for u and will do great for a first timer especially at your age. It's just like anything else when u first smoke a joint or take a pain pill u don't require that much for it to do its Job but as u do it more your body requires more to get same effect. Also don't think u will add a lot of mass without free weights and most importantly is your calorie and protein intake. You could take all the test u want and kill yourself working out but if u don't eat enough clean food with high protein don't wasted your time taking it. You have to take in 1.5 to 2 times more than your body weight in protein

I disagree as well. Particularity for the reason you gave that you feel it is ok, i feel the exact opposite for the same reasons, and agree that Ink's analogy and explanation is spot on.

**TheObserver** · 10-31-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

Another one. Gawd help those that are to lazy to read and research. And the best part is, you KNOW you should have included it because you mentioned it in your post!? I'll never understand that.

Good luck. And next time, use your head before you begin.

I made my cycle using as base "novice steroid cycle I", which is posted on this site, except I'm not taking Dinabol and in addition to pct I also added clomid. I agree maybe I haven't done research by 100%, but the problem is that there are so much threads about cycles and pct on this and many other sites and information differs a lot starting with which type of Test to choose, pct, AI.... As first time user my thinking was to take for possible less steroids in my first cycle, so I choose to go only with test E and I hoped that Nolva will be enough if any side effects will start appearing. But reading more info about gyno I found that many suggests to take AI instead of Nolva, thats why I posted here to find out whats better in my case. GL u too!

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by TheObserver

I made my cycle using as base "novice steroid cycle I", which is posted on this site, except I'm not taking Dinabol and in addition to pct I also added clomid. I agree maybe I haven't done research by 100%, but the problem is that there are so much threads about cycles and pct on this and many other sites and information differs a lot starting with which type of Test to choose, pct, AI.... As first time user my thinking was to take for possible less steroids in my first cycle, so I choose to go only with test E and I hoped that Nolva will be enough if any side effects will start appearing. But reading more info about gyno I found that many suggests to take AI instead of Nolva, thats why I posted here to find out whats better in my case. GL u too!

This is a perfect example of why it is so important to research and read a LOT more than you have been. It crucial to have read enough information to decipher between whats old and whats new, and whats current and whats not. Yesterdays information is not necessarily today's protocol. And one of the reasons is new developments in medical studies, empirical data, and personal experiences, all have led to updated protocols based on health issues, the endocrine system, and the CNS being effected differently in a positive way. These newly updated protocols are not always updated in the particular threads you may have read. But searching about and reading continuously will reveal these shortcomings and provide you with the most up to date information available.

**BadBoys** · 10-31-2012, 07:37 PM

I was told the same thing by others on different forums and decided to experiment for myself and from my experience I gained as much off 1cc as I did 2cc. And it didnt take that much test to raise my levels back to normal I actually done it with 100mg every two weeks or 50mg a week got me back to normal so 250 in my case worked wonders for me. I wouldn't go with 500mg a week I would go 375mg before I did that. Remember these guys have run cycles before and most think more is better. I recommend blood work to so u know exactly what it's doing for u then u can increase because it takes a few weeks for a long ester to really kick in anyways

**MuscleInk** · 10-31-2012, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by BadBoys

I was told the same thing by others on different forums and decided to experiment for myself and from my experience I gained as much off 1cc as I did 2cc. And it didnt take that much test to raise my levels back to normal I actually done it with 100mg every two weeks or 50mg a week got me back to normal so 250 in my case worked wonders for me. I wouldn't go with 500mg a week I would go 375mg before I did that. Remember these guys have run cycles before and most think more is better. I recommend blood work to so u know exactly what it's doing for u then u can increase because it takes a few weeks for a long ester to really kick in anyways

I'm not following you. 1cc vs 2cc of what? Test-c, test-e and at what concentrations? Then you are clamming you used an exogenous test to raise your endogenous levels? Are you sure about that. Finally, I vehemently disagree. Most vets here will say less is more, NOT more is better.

Please don't speak on behalf of the vets when you've had TWO posts on this board and only joined TODAY.

**BadBoys** · 10-31-2012, 10:55 PM

I am not speaking for anyone else just said from my experience that's what done it for me and was explaining my blood work and what got me to normal level and what worked for me. When I said 1cc I was referring to 250mg of test e. I was just told by so many body builders too that compete and are close friends that for a beginner 250mg of test is all u need and I tried it both ways and I did as good off 250mg as I did 500mg. And strength went up a lot in a period of 2months. Do what u wish bro and good luck though doing the pushup routine hope u get huge keep us posted