Ending First Test E (Only) Cycle. How/When to being cutting.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 10:03 AM

Okay guys, I am on week 10 of my first cycle (Test E Only) 500mg/week (250mg M/W). I started at 158 and I am at 197 now. My strength is almost where I want it to be, BUT I am considering going 16 weeks instead of 12 because I really want to get the most out of my first cycle (I want the noob gains). The only thing keeping me from going 16 weeks is that people have been noticing that I am gaining weight at a pretty fast pace. Also I have been gaining more fat then desirable, but my strength gains are making me not care about gaining a little bf%.

I have Clomid/Nolvadex and Farmastanzol on hand for PCT. liqiClen on the way for when I start cutting.

#1) Should I go 16 weeks? So far Test E has been great minimal sides.

#2)When and how should I being cutting. Should I cut during PCT or wait until my test is back to a normal level? Clen during PCT or no?

**qscgugcsq** · 10-31-2012, 10:22 AM

At your place I wouldn't do 16 weeks for a first cycle... 23 years old is a bit young so the longer you shut down your HPTA the harder it will be to recovery. So play safe and stick to 12 weeks.
You can include clen during PCT. It will help you to keep some gain due to the anti-catabolic effect of the clen.

almost 40 pounds great jobs. I hope you'll be able to keep a good part.

**qscgugcsq** · 10-31-2012, 10:24 AM

if you want to drop bf a bit more after that cycle you could try test-p/anavar for 8 weeks for a next cycle you'll be able to still have good gain and cut pretty fast.

**hankdiesel** · 10-31-2012, 11:17 AM

You really want to get the most out of your first cycle huh? You already gained 40lbs! I would love to see some pics as to what that looks like,

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

You really want to get the most out of your first cycle huh? You already gained 40lbs! I would love to see some pics as to what that looks like,

Me too.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

At your place I wouldn't do 16 weeks for a first cycle... 23 years old is a bit young so the longer you shut down your HPTA the harder it will be to recovery. So play safe and stick to 12 weeks.
You can include clen during PCT. It will help you to keep some gain due to the anti-catabolic effect of the clen.

almost 40 pounds great jobs. I hope you'll be able to keep a good part.

I am going to probably stick to the 12 weeks and use clen on PCT like you said.

Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

if you want to drop bf a bit more after that cycle you could try test-p/anavar for 8 weeks for a next cycle you'll be able to still have good gain and cut pretty fast.

I will definitely be considering another cycle much later down the line when I have fully recovered from this current one.

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

You really want to get the most out of your first cycle huh? You already gained 40lbs! I would love to see some pics as to what that looks like,

40lbs, but idk how much is fat/muscle. 380g protein/270 Carbs/70-90 Fat - Daily....Energy has been great at this point I feel I should have probably kept my carbs lower. I will post a current pic when I get home...these are two olds pics.

pic right before I started lifting/ running seriously.
i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/Progress017.jpg
This is a pic of the start of my cycle.
i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/Untitled_zpsc0415a77.jpg

dont have 25 posts so cant post urls...just add "http" ":" "//"

Edit: I believe this was close to 6 weeks in
i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/818B3432-2162-438A-A645-C5E9A8DA86C1-7672-00000425A7F50881_zpsb6d86be8.jpg

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 02:16 PM

Doesn't work when i tried to post them with http ?

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

Doesn't work when i tried to post them with http ?

add "http" ":" "//"

I cant put those one after another because I am under 25 posts

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by 1010101

add "http" ":" "//"

I cant put those one after another because I am under 25 posts

That's automatic when you use the "link" feature that is above each post. Not my first bbq. But im still unable to link the address.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 02:46 PM

its working when i try it. Its the 'direct link" from photobucket. What is it showing you?

**MickeyKnox** · 10-31-2012, 02:55 PM

I typed it in manually

These photos are NOT me. They are of 1010101 who cannot post photos yet.

pic right before I started lifting/ running seriously.

http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...rogress017.jpg

This is a pic of the start of my cycle.

http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...psc0415a77.jpg

I believe this was close to 6 weeks in

http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/v...psb6d86be8.jpg

**Metalject** · 10-31-2012, 02:55 PM

I wouldn't start cutting until you start your next cycle. Do what you can to maintain the muscle mass you've gained on this cycle till then.

IMO, if you're going to be a steroid user it never makes sense to diet/cut when you're not using steroids . I don't care how awesome your diet is, you will lose more muscle tissue when dieting without steroids than you would with.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

I wouldn't start cutting until you start your next cycle. Do what you can to maintain the muscle mass you've gained on this cycle till then.

IMO, if you're going to be a steroid user it never makes sense to diet/cut when you're not using steroids. I don't care how awesome your diet is, you will lose more muscle tissue when dieting without steroids than you would with.

So would you not recommend using clen during my pct?

**P.Money** · 10-31-2012, 03:09 PM

See, this is a great example of what not to do. Why would you want to start a cycle when you're 20% BF? I would rigorously cut down my body fat to 10-12% and then proceed to cycle. This can all be done with dieting alone. I don't understand what it is with people and steroids . They just think it's a shortcut to being jacked and having a 6 pack. IT'S NOT.

1. Diet - 60% of what you look like
2. Cardio
3. Training - HARD TRAINING.

It's such a simple formula, yet no one wants to put the time and work in. Let's just inject ourselves with UGL gear, pop pills and hope for the best.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by P.Money

See, this is a great example of what not to do. Why would you want to start a cycle when you're 20% BF? I would rigorously cut down my body fat to 10-12% and then proceed to cycle. This can all be done with dieting alone. I don't understand what it is with people and steroids . They just think it's a shortcut to being jacked and having a 6 pack. IT'S NOT.

1. Diet - 60% of what you look like
2. Cardio
3. Training - HARD TRAINING.

It's such a simple formula, yet no one wants to put the time and work in. Let's just inject ourselves with UGL gear, pop pills and hope for the best.

I was 157 pounds...Cutting to 10-12% bf would have put me at about 140-145 pounds...Fuarkkkkkk that
I thought of what you are saying it just made more sense to bulk and I have read that beginners should always bulk their first cycle.

**P.Money** · 10-31-2012, 03:23 PM

Bulk when you are at 20%+ body fat, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Obviously you are doing something wrong, you need to get everything in check before you start steroids . Your diet being one, and obviously you didn't have that under control considering your high body fat. You could've built nice clean mass from 140lbs instead, and looked 300x better than what you look like now. You got some reading to do my friend. Gaining 40 pounds isn't impressive when it's mostly fat and water. I'd rather see you gain 5lbs of clean mass in 3 months than what you just did there.

**1010101** · 10-31-2012, 03:33 PM

I was not 20%+ at the start of my cycle and gaining 5 pounds of muscle in 3 months on test?? not sure if serious...

unrustle your jimmies bro, I made my decision and I am 10 weeks in. Not disappointed one bit. I am not competitive lifting and I know after my next cycle I will easily be able to reach my goals.

**P.Money** · 10-31-2012, 03:59 PM

You need to start reading, the most muscle you can gain naturally in a year is around 18lbs with a good diet naturally, so in 3 months on steroids I'm guessing 5 pounds of clean mass is definitely realistic. How am I out of whack here?

**hankdiesel** · 11-01-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by 1010101

I was not 20%+ at the start of my cycle and gaining 5 pounds of muscle in 3 months on test?? not sure if serious...

unrustle your jimmies bro, I made my decision and I am 10 weeks in. Not disappointed one bit. I am not competitive lifting and I know after my next cycle I will easily be able to reach my goals.

I would love to know how much muscle you believe a person can add in 3 months time using steroids .

**hankdiesel** · 11-01-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by P.Money

You need to start reading, the most muscle you can gain naturally in a year is around18lbs with a good diet naturally, so in 3 months on steroids I'm guessing 5 pounds of clean mass is definitely realistic. How am I out of whack here?

No way. 18lbs of muscle in a year naturally would never happen. Even with steroids that feat would be incredible. And remeber we're talking real muscle tissue, not just weight gain.

**Metalject** · 11-01-2012, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

No way. 18lbs of muscle in a year naturally would never happen. Even with steroids that feat would be incredible. And remeber we're talking real muscle tissue, not just weight gain.

Agreed. 5lbs of pure, lean muscle mass makes a big difference...that's not including any weight gained at the same time that's not muscle mass. I don't think most people have a true understanding of weight gain versus muscle mass.

**1010101** · 11-01-2012, 10:29 PM

Time really is not a factor for me. I am in no rush to put on 15,18,25,100 pounds of muscle in 3 months. My goal is to make gains and to keep my muscle/fat ratio in order. I made this thread to look for info on the best time to cut and how to cut in my situation not to argue on how much muscle someone can put on naturally in 3 months.

**Metalject** · 11-01-2012, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by 1010101

Time really is not a factor for me. I am in no rush to put on 15,18,25,100 pounds of muscle in 3 months. My goal is to make gains and to keep my muscle/fat ratio in order. I made this thread to look for info on the best time to cut and how to cut in my situation not to argue on how much muscle someone can put on naturally in 3 months.

The best bet in my opinion is to make good progress while on your bulking cycle, do all you can to maintain your muscle mass through and after your PCT while controlling your body fat and then start your cutting phase during your next cycle.

If you cut now without steroids versus cutting with steroids, while you can end up lean either way you'll hold less muscle mass if you cut without steroids. How great your diet is will not change this fact.

Anyway, this is the best way to make good use of your steroid use IMO.

**1010101** · 11-01-2012, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

The best bet in my opinion is to make good progress while on your bulking cycle, do all you can to maintain your muscle mass through and after your PCT while controlling your body fat and then start your cutting phase during your next cycle.

If you cut now without steroids versus cutting with steroids, while you can end up lean either way you'll hold less muscle mass if you cut without steroids. How great your diet is will not change this fact.

Anyway, this is the best way to make good use of your steroid use IMO.

Would you recommend clen during the PCT or no? The anti-catabolic effects make me thing yes, but then I would obviously be cutting.

as for my next cycle at the end of my next 12 weeks it is safe to start 12 weeks later?

**MickeyKnox** · 11-23-2012, 02:12 PM

How are you making out bro? Did you extend your cycle to 14 or 16 wks? Where are you at now?

**1010101** · 12-03-2012, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

How are you making out bro? Did you extend your cycle to 14 or 16 wks? Where are you at now?

Update for you brahs....I ended the cycle at 12 weeks (about half way through November). Started my PCT 14 days after that Clomid+Forma Stanzol. I kept my calorie intake about 500+ through the first 2 weeks and now I am keeping it around maintenance. At my highest weight I got to 197. Right now I am 188...My lifts have decreased a bit. I was repping 255 bench when I was on test E and now that is my max. Here are some pics.

START OF CYCLE
i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/Untitled_zpsc0415a77.jpg
END OF CYCLE
s694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/?action=view&current=044-2-1.jpg
i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv310/Shake_Zula/D912C329-0AF7-4689-8D02-F3D0D49B983A-5503-000003941377968D_zps43556f9f.jpg[/IMG]

**MickeyKnox** · 12-03-2012, 11:47 PM

Ok here it is - in your face truth of truths.

You're BF was waaaay to high before you began this cycle - you were skinny fat. Your diet was horrible. You will lose most, if not all, of your gains in a matter of time. And your gains appear to be mostly fat and water, with some muscle.

Before your next cycle (and there will be another, you know it and i know it) make sure you know how to properly prepare for a cycle, and read up on how to develop a solid diet based on your BF and TDEE. If your BF is too high, wait until its around an ideal 15-16%. Until that time, do not even dream of cycling.

And finally, you remind me physically of Samson - who is a friend btw, and i am not bashing. Just saying he did what you did, BUT, he learned from his mistakes. I hope you do too.

Good luck amigo.

**--->>405<<---** · 12-04-2012, 12:57 AM

Dude u seem to be too focused on total body weight. That doesnt mean a dang thing! What matters is LBM. I dont know how tall u are but u were nowhere near ready to run a cycle based on those pics IMO.

U need (once u have either established or lost ur gains) to cut all that fat off And see where u stand. U also need to do some lifting natty and get ur diet, workout, ironed out and try to gain some LBm without cycling.

**Blackatom8608** · 12-04-2012, 01:04 AM

Seems A little much even for first time. Your young if you have the gains stop while your ahead!

**calstate23** · 12-04-2012, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by 1010101

I was 157 pounds...Cutting to 10-12% bf would have put me at about 140-145 pounds...Fuarkkkkkk that
I thought of what you are saying it just made more sense to bulk and I have read that beginners should always bulk their first cycle.

It is best to get to single digit bodyfat % BEFORE starting any hormones...Including steroids ...

Who cares if you would have been 140 lbs it would have mostly been lean muscle tissue that you were left with...Nobody wants fat, so that extra 17 lbs was meaningless...

The reason it is best to be in single digits is because #1 you will respond better to your cycle and #2 typically people cycle to gain weight, whether it is supposedly a "lean bulk" or not...The point is the person will be gaining weight...

And to do this you need extra calories, meaning you will put on some fat during your cycle...So you don't want to start out high and then add more to it

**1010101** · 12-04-2012, 02:01 AM

Yeah, I mean I 100% agree with what has been posted. My bf% was way to high and I did not realize how much actual weight I would gain. I definitely 100% will not start another cycle until I am under 14% bf. My goal right now is to keep as much of my gains as possible and to be honest all my lifts increased drastically. I am still able to do close to what I could do on test e. This was a learning experience and at worst I am glad I did not go full retard and take Deca /winstrol and all the crazy random stacks noobs always throw together. I am plan on updating this thread every week or so. Lets see how much muscle I keep. I have photos at 155 start of cycle so I will be able to put picture next to picture and see the end result. Appreciate the info

**calstate23** · 12-05-2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by 1010101

Yeah, I mean I 100% agree with what has been posted. My bf% was way to high and I did not realize how much actual weight I would gain. I definitely 100% will not start another cycle until I am under 14% bf. My goal right now is to keep as much of my gains as possible and to be honest all my lifts increased drastically. I am still able to do close to what I could do on test e. This was a learning experience and at worst I am glad I did not go full retard and take Deca/winstrol and all the crazy random stacks noobs always throw together. I am plan on updating this thread every week or so. Lets see how much muscle I keep. I have photos at 155 start of cycle so I will be able to put picture next to picture and see the end result. Appreciate the info

Good to hear...At least you learned something...Honestly, I would try to get down to 10% and less...Less even better, but no more then 10%...If you do that, you will love your next cycle 10 TIMES better, I guarantee it...

And to get down to 10% and less you need to have good diet, workout routine, and cardio...Meaning, when you do get down this low you will already be in hardcore training mode and hopefully know a lot more on how to eat better foods...

Bodybuilding is only about knowledge and dedication...I don't care what type of genetics anyone has...If they want to, they can get to single digit Bodyfat%....How IMPORTANT is knowledge in Bodybuilding? I'll refer to my favorite quote, " A donkey can train 3 times HARDER then a race horse, but he will NEVER win the Kentucky Derby"....You have to train smart, just because you train hard doesn't mean you'll reach your goal.

**1010101** · 02-06-2013, 04:30 PM

***UPDATE***

Its been about 2 months since I ended my cycle of Test e. I kept my weight in the high 190's through my pct (ended up using Clomid+Nolvadex ). I waited 14 days after my last shot and then took 40mg/day of Nolvadex for the first two weeks and then 20mg of Nolvadex the last two weeks (4 weeks total). Along with that I took 50mg/day of Clomid for all 4 weeks. So it was 40/40/20/20 Nolvadex and 50/50/50/50 Clomid. Since Mid Jan I started cutting natty without anything. I am 182 now, my lifts have basically stayed the same for bench/dead lifts/squats...5-10 pound loss on other exercises. I have been running 3.1 miles (5k) 4 days a week post workout.

Should I continue cutting without any "help"? How about clen ?

**Soar** · 02-06-2013, 07:31 PM

You think you're cutting just fat or drilling some lbm?

**fit2bOld** · 02-07-2013, 08:38 AM

That was just all wrong. Classic when not to use gear. No base to start to much body fat and no muscle to speak of. Sorry man if this hurts but you need to start over but this time with nutrition not juice.

**1010101** · 03-20-2016, 02:39 PM

Sup guys?

I 90% wasted that cycle IMO. I ended up cutting a lot of weight after but also looked like I lost any muscle I had gained.I was still in College at the time and my eating habits went to sh*t. Since 2013 I've done barley enough to maintain the little muscle I have while trying to cut bf% naturally through IF and Keto diet. I've used clen and considering getting it again. At this point I'm just trying to get to a low body fat. I get to 169 lbs and it seems like I hit a wall. With the lack of energy at that weight its hard to keep lifting heavy.

**Mr.BB** · 03-20-2016, 02:49 PM

First, you did not gain 40lbs of muscle, most of it was water. Second, why do ppl think on cutting after 1 cycle?? Like 5 or 10 lbs of real muscle going to make you big???
You always lose muscle while cutting, it doesnt make sense to work hard to get muscles and then just waste it all. Unless you are competing you dont even need to do hard cutting, if you are fat you shouldnt cycle anyways.
If you want to lose some fat just increase cardio slowly, and adjust diet very slightly, otherwise you going to lose muscle mass.

Just my 2cents.

**1010101** · 03-20-2016, 04:42 PM

Yeah, without a doubt it was 80%+ fat. I made the mistake of thinking I could lose fat while on Test E. Like another poster said, I should have just continued to lift naturally and lose bf%

I can get to 165-169 fairly easily with cardio and keto diet, but even then I feel like I am 15%-18% bf. At that point I need to be pretty strict with my diet + clen and cardio to get below 160's. My main goal is to lose body fat.

Thoughts on T3 without test?

**Mr.BB** · 03-20-2016, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by 1010101

Thoughts on T3 without test?

Its great if you want to be a skinny dude, although probably healthier ways of getting skinny.

This is a steroids forum, so ppl here give advice on getting big, dont know if you going to get much luck.

**NACH3** · 03-20-2016, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Its great if you want to be a skinny dude, although probably healthier ways of getting skinny.

This is a steroids forum, so ppl here give advice on getting big, dont know if you going to get much luck.

T3 will not discriminate what it eats up(fat, or muscle etc) without test T3 will eat your muscle tissue

Head to the nutrition section and list up a days worth of what you eat... And start doing cardio! Your counting on the drugs instead of hard work - Clen and T3 is no what you need - a nutrition(diet overhaul) and re-evaluate your training as well! GL!