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  1. #1
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Please pick this apart & tell me what I should add or change!

    2 weeks before cycle:
    Nolvadex 1 tablet 2-3 times a week for 2 weeks

    8 week cycle:
    Test propionate 1ml, 2-3x per week
    Tren 1ml, 2-3x per week
    Var 30mg/40mg split evenly throughout the day, every day
    Nolvadex 1 tablet 2-3 times a week

    [B]2 weeks into 8 week cycle:
    Clenbutrol 40mcg twice per day
    + Good Diet & great training

    3 days after last test injection:
    Nolvadex 1 tablet 2-3 times a week
    + Good Diet & great training


    Im not sure what dosage the nolvadex is, iv just been told 2-3 tablets so any dosage info would be great so I can check it against the tablets I get.

  2. #2
    Capebuffalo's Avatar
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    Stats and cycle experience.
    Where / How did you come up with this?

  3. #3
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    Ugh....................Seems like nobody wants to research anything lately!! Where is Lunk when you need him?

  4. #4
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    This is a mess honestly. Lets start at the beggining?
    Stats:
    AGE
    HEIGHT
    WEIGHT
    BF%
    CYCLE EXP
    TRAINING EXP

  5. #5
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Sorry u guys....

    I know u guys wont like my exp...
    Age 31

    Height 5'9"

    Weight 155.55 lbs

    BF% 13.5

    Now I know you guys arent going to like this bit & I understand your points, here goes... 1st real cycle (Did 6 weeks on Trenbolone (oral caps) 90mg Trenbolone per day, 30mg 4x per day every day) This was very stupid of me I know but was sold at a gym & online as just a supplement called SD1 ingredients "prohormones 10mg Methasterone(Superdrol),30mg Trenbolone (-m) , 90 capsules per tub"

    I have decided, after much thought, to start this cycle 1 year into my proper gym training

    Please be gentle with me... I am just asking you what you think

  6. #6
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWaffle21 View Post
    Ugh....................Seems like nobody wants to research anything lately!! Where is Lunk when you need him?
    Ugh.............. I have looked into things as much as im able but I thought to further enlighten me Id join a forum about this kind of stuff & try to get help off the well informed... Or is that too much to hope for?

    You dont need or have to help but why comment at all if you dont want to do either?

    Thanks anyway

  7. #7
    DAAS's Avatar
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    1mL does don't mean anything as far as a dose.
    1mL could mean 50mg or 250mg.
    Also 2-3x a week? You don't just decide to take an extra dose if you want.
    I'd say you got a lot of research to do and learn about diet.
    Basically everyone on here will tell you the same.
    The only thing keeping you from getting slammed is you're over 25

  8. #8
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    Ok...no prob. Your first cycle was not a cycle so scratch that. You are on the light side being 160 and 5'9"

    I assume your looking to bulk up??

    It's really going to be in your best interest to do 2 things

    1) spend the next few months EATING like a horse and spending tons of time here reading and learning. I would really suggest getting a solid, lean 180+ before considering AAS

    2) Learn about steroids in the mean time and consider a solid Test only cycle that will do everything you want.

  9. #9
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333 View Post
    Ugh.............. I have looked into things as much as im able but I thought to further enlighten me Id join a forum about this kind of stuff & try to get help off the well informed... Or is that too much to hope for?

    You dont need or have to help but why comment at all if you dont want to do either?

    Thanks anyway
    Garth..you will get all sorts of responses hear. Some smart AAS some comical, some serious and maybe even some mat SEEM rude but I promise they ALL have your best interest at heart. Don't just read the message, read through it to it's true intent!

  10. #10
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Stats and cycle experience.
    Where / How did you come up with this?
    Now here me out... I know I know nothing really about the ins and outs... I have looked into this and omg there is soooooooooooo much to take in... I have chosen the tren , var & prop due to ther strong hard gains, little water gains & fat cutting abilities... The dosages have been recommended by a very shredded individual & he is the closest thing to an expert I have. I am not after massive size... I just want a bit of size but very very lean & shredded...

    I know or so far I think im going to get shot down & strung up but I just wondered if this cycle would help & if not what should i change... as soon as January comes I will be a year in training & will be doin gear... I just wanted some imput before i do. thats all

  11. #11
    redz's Avatar
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    You didnt take oral Tren you got garbage, real oral tren would probably kill you at 90mg/day. Oral Tren (methyltrienolone ) is dosed in mcg not mg.

    EDIT* sorry I missed the part where you said it was just a supplement.

  12. #12
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Garth..you will get all sorts of responses hear. Some smart AAS some comical, some serious and maybe even some mat SEEM rude but I promise they ALL have your best interest at heart. Don't just read the message, read through it to it's true intent!
    I know what your saying... I just know how much I have looked into things but I obviously need more help... Thus the reason why i am here.

    I know I havent got it right yet... thats why I put it on here to see where I could get it better

  13. #13
    redz's Avatar
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    Also the compounds you suggested require ed injections or at the very least eod injections. Nolva is not sufficient pct or on cycle care and you are no where near ready for steroids let alone tren .

  14. #14
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333 View Post
    Now here me out... I know I know nothing really about the ins and outs... I have looked into this and omg there is soooooooooooo much to take in... I have chosen the tren , var & prop due to ther strong hard gains, little water gains & fat cutting abilities... The dosages have been recommended by a very shredded individual & he is the closest thing to an expert I have. I am not after massive size... I just want a bit of size but very very lean & shredded...

    I know or so far I think im going to get shot down & strung up but I just wondered if this cycle would help & if not what should i change... as soon as January comes I will be a year in training & will be doin gear... I just wanted some imput before i do. thats all
    Take a deep breath Garth..Capes question is legit. Like everyone else he wanted stats and some idea of what lead you to pick this cycle. Nothing to pop a cork over? Breath in through the nose and out through the mouth man... you will get more help here than anywhere I promise you that!

  15. #15
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    Garth...read my post #8 please...

  16. #16
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAAS View Post
    1mL does don't mean anything as far as a dose.
    1mL could mean 50mg or 250mg.
    Also 2-3x a week? You don't just decide to take an extra dose if you want.
    I'd say you got a lot of research to do and learn about diet.
    Basically everyone on here will tell you the same.
    The only thing keeping you from getting slammed is you're over 25
    I have 1 guy that I can talk to who has done plenty of cycles & looks great & is very ripped and all that... His brother is a competing, gear using body builder... This is my 1 guy I can talk to...

    I mentioned the Tren & the Var... He said to use the prop & the dosages... I assumed 1ml was standard... maybe its a UK/US metric imperial thing... i will look in to it...

    The 2-3 x a week was just incase I didnt feel great on 3 x a week... I would drop to 2 x a week

    My Diet is great... Im trying to get ready for this cycle, or a variant of it, and I have 2 more months eatinf 4000 calories about 600/650 grams of protein 300/350grams of carbs & about 250/300 grams fat a day... This is off the top of my head from when I worked it out a bit back

  17. #17
    Capebuffalo's Avatar
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    I am going to help you more than you relize by asking you to do something very simple..
    List everything you ate yesterday. If you know your tdee and macros please list as well

  18. #18
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Take a deep breath Garth..Capes question is legit. Like everyone else he wanted stats and some idea of what lead you to pick this cycle. Nothing to pop a cork over? Breath in through the nose and out through the mouth man... you will get more help here than anywhere I promise you that!
    Soz... I honestly didnt mean to reply wrongly... I cool as a cucumber & appreciate the help... I just thought I answered what he asked... No badness intended

  19. #19
    redz's Avatar
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    I mentioned the Tren & the Var... He said to use the prop & the dosages... I assumed 1ml was standard... maybe its a UK/US metric imperial thing... i will look in to it...
    This alone shows you are not ready!
    The 2-3 x a week was just incase I didnt feel great on 3 x a week... I would drop to 2 x a week
    3 is not enough it would be 3.5 shots/week eod. The fewer shots the more sides you will get due to unstable blood concentrations.

  20. #20
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Ok...no prob. Your first cycle was not a cycle so scratch that. You are on the light side being 160 and 5'9"

    I assume your looking to bulk up??

    It's really going to be in your best interest to do 2 things

    1) spend the next few months EATING like a horse and spending tons of time here reading and learning. I would really suggest getting a solid, lean 180+ before considering AAS

    2) Learn about steroids in the mean time and consider a solid Test only cycle that will do everything you want.
    This is the thing... Im not really wanting to bulk up that much... I will possibly over time but at present I just want to get a bit bigger but shredded is my main objective... I dont want to look bad to you guys but I am doing this to look as good as i can as quick as I can... I have about 6 - 9 months and I want to be the best I can be & I want to use gear to get there as I know I cant without... I just want advice before I go ahead... I know everyone will think Im stupid or whatever but I just want some help if anyone is willing... After the 6-9 months...maybe even a year I will go back to just great diet & great training...

    sorry if this goes against anything

  21. #21
    MuscleInk's Avatar
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    Agree with all prior comments. Best place to start is the following:

    1. Nutrition. List your daily intake with total calories consumed and grams of each of the three major macronutrients (carbs; protein; fat). You should also determine your TDEE so you know how much to eat above your TDEE to achieve your desired goals. All this is best presented in the nutrition section of the forum. Nothing happens unless you lift right and eat properly. Gains and loses are about 80% of what you eat. No steroid will ever replace poor eating or bad training techniques.

    2. The only cycle you should even be considering at all right now is a testosterone only cycle. This would be your first cycle and should consist of either: testosterone enthanate OR testosterone cypionate dosed at 500mg/wk total, split over 2-3 doses weekly for 10-12 weeks. A proper AI and PCT should part of your cycle to minimize aromatization and assist in restarting your natural testosterone after the cycle.

    3. You WILL get fantastic feedback and support from the people here. They simply are some of the brightest, most educated, and experienced people you will find anywhere on the topic of AAS. The advice offered by the group of collective knowledge may not be what you want to hear, but it is given in your best interest with your health and overall goals in mind. Please be PATIENT. Members of this forum are not sitting in a room together evaluating your post and then collectively discussing it and responding in kind. Like you, we all log in at times thought the day, from work or home in between responsibilities to employers and family. We are not paid for the support and advice we offer. We do it because we share a passion for this sport and the education around steroids and their safe, responsible use. You WILL get responses but it does take time.

    4. DO MORE RESEARCH. You are considering chemicals that can have serious repercussions on your health and well being if used incorrectly or abused. We will offer the best advice to our abilities and knowledge, however, you should take ownership over learning as much about this area as you can. It's your body. You only get one. Investing as much time into the education of steroids as much as using them, just makes good sense.

    5. I recommend you have blood work done before you cycle. It's a great idea to have some baseline labs to know what your levels are before you cycle and then another set of labs performed during a cycle to see how your body is responding. Common labs are: full male hormone panel including E2 sensitive assay, CBC, CMP.

  22. #22
    bigsiv's Avatar
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    You could do a lot in '6-9 months' if you sort your diet and training out. Why the big rush into AAS? You should listen to the vets your not ready yet no offence really bud. But you need to learn alot more before embarking on this. AAS won't get you shredded anyway your DIET will though!!

  23. #23
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by redz View Post
    This alone shows you are not ready!
    3 is not enough it would be 3.5 shots/week eod. The fewer shots the more sides you will get due to unstable blood concentrations.
    I have 2 months to get ready... I am really trying to research & find out as much info as poss & I have so far just got the diet down & i am doing my best to sort out a decent cycle that should get me my goals...

    What do you mean by 3.5 shots/week eod? What would you recommend as a dose with the cycle I posted?

  24. #24
    redz's Avatar
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    You need to shoot those compounds a minimum of every other day but every day is more optimal. Tren is not for beginners either.

  25. #25
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleInk View Post
    Agree with all prior comments. Best place to start is the following:

    1. Nutrition. List your daily intake with total calories consumed and grams of each of the three major macronutrients (carbs; protein; fat). You should also determine your TDEE so you know how much to eat above your TDEE to achieve your desired goals. All this is best presented in the nutrition section of the forum. Nothing happens unless you lift right and eat properly. Gains and loses are about 80% of what you eat. No steroid will ever replace poor eating or bad training techniques.

    2. The only cycle you should even be considering at all right now is a testosterone only cycle. This would be your first cycle and should consist of either: testosterone enthanate OR testosterone cypionate dosed at 500mg/wk total, split over 2-3 doses weekly for 10-12 weeks. A proper AI and PCT should part of your cycle to minimize aromatization and assist in restarting your natural testosterone after the cycle.

    3. You WILL get fantastic feedback and support from the people here. They simply are some of the brightest, most educated, and experienced people you will find anywhere on the topic of AAS. The advice offered by the group of collective knowledge may not be what you want to hear, but it is given in your best interest with your health and overall goals in mind. Please be PATIENT. Members of this forum are not sitting in a room together evaluating your post and then collectively discussing it and responding in kind. Like you, we all log in at times thought the day, from work or home in between responsibilities to employers and family. We are not paid for the support and advice we offer. We do it because we share a passion for this sport and the education around steroids and their safe, responsible use. You WILL get responses but it does take time.

    4. DO MORE RESEARCH. You are considering chemicals that can have serious repercussions on your health and well being if used incorrectly or abused. We will offer the best advice to our abilities and knowledge, however, you should take ownership over learning as much about this area as you can. It's your body. You only get one. Investing as much time into the education of steroids as much as using them, just makes good sense.

    5. I recommend you have blood work done before you cycle. It's a great idea to have some baseline labs to know what your levels are before you cycle and then another set of labs performed during a cycle to see how your body is responding. Common labs are: full male hormone panel including E2 sensitive assay, CBC, CMP.
    Please believe me when I say I totally appreciate all the responses... spesh the 1s that go against what I want to do.... I see a lot of people at the gym doing gear & looking fantastic & I just want to give it a go, it interests me to see how it can help me... Why else would anyone do it?

  26. #26
    bigsiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333

    What do you mean by 3.5 shots/week eod? What would you recommend as a dose with the cycle I posted?
    Eod every other day shots, mathematically doesn't fit into a week/7days
    Eg pin Monday Wednesday Friday Sunday Tuesday etc
    Eod shot is 7 shots over 2 weeks therefore 3.5 shots a week on AVERAGE
    Hope I explained that ok lol

  27. #27
    bigsiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333

    Please believe me when I say I totally appreciate all the responses... spesh the 1s that go against what I want to do.... I see a lot of people at the gym doing gear & looking fantastic & I just want to give it a go, it interests me to see how it can help me... Why else would anyone do it?
    That's exactly how I was pier pressure is a bitch lol I rushed into it and wished I hadn't. Your first cycle should be the best so you should prepare well for it. Once you have learned how to cycle, diet and train from these guys trust me you won't regret it.
    The guys at the gym might look good now but if they haven't the knowledge of what that are doing I can guarantee they will have problems in later life.
    What good is looking shredded and ripped for the ladies when you can't even get it up for them!!!

  28. #28
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    Ok. Garth you said your 33..this is older and hopefully much more mature than the majority of kids coming on here EVERDAY with cycles that look just like yours.

    I will accept the fact that your are intent on using steroids even though you would not need to to hit your goals so....

    Your cycle should look like this and this only!

    1-8 test prop 100mg EOD (M,W,F,S,T,Th,Sa and so on)
    Adex or liquedex at .25 mg EOD and adjust as needed (this is to control estrogen and stop common side effects like gyno and ED)

    3 days after your last injection PCT

    Clomid 75/50/50/50
    Nolva 40/20/20/20

    Post your entire daily diet in the nutrition sub forum and make sure that it is solid for real as it accounts for 80% or better of your cycle success (I have my doubts about this happening)

    Edit: since I know the next question 25g 1.5" needle inject at least 6 places (quads, delts, glutes) can draw with a 22g
    Last edited by Lunk1; 11-07-2012 at 02:46 PM.

  29. #29
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsiv View Post
    You could do a lot in '6-9 months' if you sort your diet and training out. Why the big rush into AAS? You should listen to the vets your not ready yet no offence really bud. But you need to learn alot more before embarking on this. AAS won't get you shredded anyway your DIET will though!!
    Yeah I know what your saying... I just want to start after a year of gyming without.... I am listening to all the vet & the in the knows... I am just trying to work out a good 1st cycle to do after a years worth of gyming... I have got a great diet now set up for the shredding but I thought some of the gear i mentioned would also help in the process while getting bigger....

    Im taking everything in, I really am... This was just as far as iv got so far

  30. #30
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    Win some..... Lose some.....

  31. #31
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    Ya gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold em....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333

    Yeah I know what your saying... I just want to start after a year of gyming without.... I am listening to all the vet & the in the knows... I am just trying to work out a good 1st cycle to do after a years worth of gyming... I have got a great diet now set up for the shredding but I thought some of the gear i mentioned would also help in the process while getting bigger....

    Im taking everything in, I really am... This was just as far as iv got so far
    Fair play Gareth follow Lunks protocol. Post your diet in nutrition section then we know how serious you are (and how good your diet really is)

  33. #33
    MuscleInk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333

    Please believe me when I say I totally appreciate all the responses... spesh the 1s that go against what I want to do.... I see a lot of people at the gym doing gear & looking fantastic & I just want to give it a go, it interests me to see how it can help me... Why else would anyone do it?
    I certainly understand. My recommendation wasn't to avoid gear, rather to set yourself up for success instead of failure.

    A lot of people do a lot of stupid things, including things in the gym. A lot of people doing a lot of things wrong, doesn't make it right. Heck, there isn't a day I spend in the gym where I don't see a handful of clowns lifting incorrectly! Their technique is poor. They aren't fully contracting their target muscles or isolating the correct muscle for the exercise and are loading more weight than they can clearly lift. If people can't get lifting techniques correct, imagine how many are improperly cycling steroids !?!

    You can achieve your goals easily if you follow the advice given in proceeding posts.

    Unfortunately, what I'm hearing from you Garth, is the following, "I'm running this gear. I've already decided. Now I want someone to tell me how to do it". I never understand this logic. Some guy (pro or otherwise) in the gym, gives another guy a bunch of gear and says this is what you need to achieve your goals. Then that guy shows up here asking us how to dose or cycle it and he argues with us when we suggest something different. If the guy giving/selling you the gear had all the answers, you wouldn't be here asking.....and by virtue of you being here asking means you need guidance. When that guidance is given, either follow it or simply ask they guy who sold you the gear to lay out a plan for you.

    The members here aren't trying to discourage you. They are trying to encourage you to do it CORRECTLY.

  34. #34
    Garth333 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by redz View Post
    You need to shoot those compounds a minimum of every other day but every day is more optimal. Tren is not for beginners either.
    Cheers... I have read & found out as much as can in the relatively short time I have had to research this(I had NO idea how much I needed to know) I understand that tren can mess with your head & those related problems but when you say it is not for beginners is that physical problems it can cause or mental or both? & why only in beginners?

  35. #35
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    I wished I worked out in a juice head gym...I would start dropping plates on some of these EXPERTS fkn heads!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth333 View Post
    Cheers... I have read & found out as much as can in the relatively short time I have had to research this(I had NO idea how much I needed to know) I understand that tren can mess with your head & those related problems but when you say it is not for beginners is that physical problems it can cause or mental or both? & why only in beginners?
    tren can come with a butt load of side effects. Some ppl even experienced users just simply cannot use it. High BP, high cholesterol, prostate enlargement, ED, insomnia, night sweats, lucid dreams, hair loss...where do I stop!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1
    I wished I worked out in a juice head gym...I would start dropping plates on some of these EXPERTS fkn heads!
    Fly on down to my side of the island. Lots here. The tragic ones are the guys that two years ago were absolutely huge and ripped....2-3 years later, my 110lb wife is now bigger than them. Sad but true. Too many guys with great expectations but no plan for long term success.

  38. #38
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    Someday I will set foot back in that state...perhaps when the statute of limitations expires from the last time I was there lol

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleInk View Post
    I certainly understand. My recommendation wasn't to avoid gear, rather to set yourself up for success instead of failure.

    A lot of people do a lot of stupid things, including things in the gym. A lot of people doing a lot of things wrong, doesn't make it right. Heck, there isn't a day I spend in the gym where I don't see a handful of clowns lifting incorrectly! Their technique is poor. They aren't fully contracting their target muscles or isolating the correct muscle for the exercise and are loading more weight than they can clearly lift. If people can't get lifting techniques correct, imagine how many are improperly cycling steroids !?!

    You can achieve your goals easily if you follow the advice given in proceeding posts.

    Unfortunately, what I'm hearing from you Garth, is the following, "I'm running this gear. I've already decided. Now I want someone to tell me how to do it". I never understand this logic. Some guy (pro or otherwise) in the gym, gives another guy a bunch of gear and says this is what you need to achieve your goals. Then that guy shows up here asking us how to dose or cycle it and he argues with us when we suggest something different. If the guy giving/selling you the gear had all the answers, you wouldn't be here asking.....and by virtue of you being here asking means you need guidance. When that guidance is given, either follow it or simply ask they guy who sold you the gear to lay out a plan for you.

    The members here aren't trying to discourage you. They are trying to encourage you to do it CORRECTLY.
    Sorry if I have come across like I am going to do that cycle no matter what... I truly arent...I just thought itd go well with my goals, would be good if I had done 5 or 6 cycles & been gyming for 5 years?

    I do take what everyone has said in & I am adjusting my thoughts accordingly...

    I am here as I know this isnt something to take lightly but I do want to start & I have gone to the trouble, & expense, of having a good personal trainer for the year I have been going to the gym, I do a FST-7 Training 1 month & a core based training mixed with the FST-7 training the next & mix up my exercises as needed... I have got my diet right & know how to up my macros for when I start a cycle...

    I dont want you to think I havent thought about this because I have... A lot...

  40. #40
    Garth333 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Ok. Garth you said your 33..this is older and hopefully much more mature than the majority of kids coming on here EVERDAY with cycles that look just like yours.

    I will accept the fact that your are intent on using steroids even though you would not need to to hit your goals so....

    Your cycle should look like this and this only!

    1-8 test prop 100mg EOD (M,W,F,S,T,Th,Sa and so on)
    Adex or liquedex at .25 mg EOD and adjust as needed (this is to control estrogen and stop common side effects like gyno and ED)

    3 days after your last injection PCT

    Clomid 75/50/50/50
    Nolva 40/20/20/20

    Post your entire daily diet in the nutrition sub forum and make sure that it is solid for real as it accounts for 80% or better of your cycle success (I have my doubts about this happening)

    Edit: since I know the next question 25g 1.5" needle inject at least 6 places (quads, delts, glutes) can draw with a 22g
    Thanks... I will look into this cycle... Do you have your doubts about it been a success or that I will post my diet?

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