Steroids and jaw growth.

[Doont-Hunter]

I've been reading conflicting information in regards to AAS and jaw growth. Some people say they noticed visible changed in their jaws, others said they didn't notice anything, some noticed bigger skulls even lol. I also read that apparently HGH has more of an effect on the jaw than AAS? I would have thought seeing as AAS makes your muscles bigger, and considering there are muscles in the jaw, then surely the jaw muscles would increase too?

Are there people on here who have noticed changes in their jaws over time or their head sizes? If you look back through any of your old photos do you notice any changes in your jaw? I just don't really see any bodybuilders with small jaws. Most seem to have really masculine, chiseled jaw lines that really stand out.

[marcus300]

After my first cycle people said they could notice a slight change the size of my jaw but I couldnt see it myself, this is me after my first cycle of test only

[krugerr]

Lol. I'd say its the bodybuilder a look like they have a defined jaw because of their low bodyfat.

Steroids shouldn't make your skull or jaw grow, they're Androgenic, so you may get hairier, deeper voice etc.
GH might possibly make jaws grow, but only at very high doses and for long periods of time.

That's just what I think. As you can see above, apparently Marcus had some abnormal jaw growths!

[adamjames]

After my first cycle people said they could notice a slight change the size of my jaw but I couldnt see it myself, this is me after my first cycle of test only

Ill never complain about moon face again!!

[Atomini]

Anabolic steroids do not do this. Human Growth Hormone, however, has the possibility of doing so.

[AD]

After my first cycle people said they could notice a slight change the size of my jaw but I couldnt see it myself, this is me after my first cycle of test only

Hahaha
Marcus, didnt know you are chinese!

If thats not photoshop, i'd say its a tumor.

[marcus300]

Hahaha
Marcus, didnt know you are chinese!

If thats not photoshop, i'd say its a tumor.

I'll get it look at next time i'm at the doctors

[austinite]

Only high doses of hgh will grow the mandible.

[Juced_porkchop]

androgens (aas) may have muscle in jaw grow(i think its a good look, for men anyway) but your thinking hGH abuse not aas

[Times Roman]

Huh? I thought you said you STOPPED with the chew tobacco?

After my first cycle people said they could notice a slight change the size of my jaw but I couldnt see it myself, this is me after my first cycle of test only

[kolaking]

You guys are ruthless!!

[Doont-Hunter]

So only high doses of HGH change the mandible? What about just normal doses of HGH? Do people on here like HGH of do they only like AAS like Testosterone, Trenbolone etc?

[Sworder]

Both GH and testosterone(androgens) are responsible for mandibular growth. If this is possible after the epiphyseal plates have closed, I wouldn't think so.

[AD]

Both GH and testosterone(androgens) are responsible for mandibular growth. If this is possible after the epiphyseal plates have closed, I wouldn't think so.

do you know where are the epiphyseal plates located in the mandible?

[MuscleInk]

So only high doses of HGH change the mandible? What about just normal doses of HGH? Do people on here like HGH of do they only like AAS like Testosterone, Trenbolone etc?

I run GH at the same time. There are many other risks of GH to be aware that can occur before mandibular changes.

[Sworder]

do you know where are the epiphyseal plates located in the mandible?

I am not in the mood, same place as every other bone in the body that grows.

[AD]

was going to give a free anatomy 101, but since you're not in the mood...

[Sworder]

What are you trying to educate me in? Obviously you don't know what you are talking about otherwise you wouldn't question that bones in the mandible have growth plates. If the bones in the mandible doesn't, how do they stop growing? The reason why I am not in the mood is because I don't feel like correcting YOU and making this a SWORDER thread as usually is the case. Feel free to give some ambiguous post which make it seem like you were misinterpreted by me, but honestly it would be best if you didn't post unless it entails me being wrong in something. Which is not the case unless you want to refute the data posted below. Most of the time I post or contradict AFTER reading literature about the subject; so before poking the beehive check your facts. I am done here, thanks I got work to do.

Bone Development and Growth
http://web.archive.org/web/200807091...ne_growth.html

Endochondral Ossification

Endochondral ossification involves the replacement of hyaline cartilage with bony tissue. Most of the bones of the skeleton are formed in this manner. These bones are called endochondral bones. In this process, the future bones are first formed as hyaline cartilage models. During the third month after conception, the perichondrium that surrounds the hyaline cartilage "models" becomes infiltrated with blood vessels and osteoblasts and changes into a periosteum. The osteoblasts form a collar of compact bone around the diaphysis. At the same time, the cartilage in the center of the diaphysis begins to disintegrate. Osteoblasts penetrate the disintegrating cartilage and replace it with spongy bone. This forms a primary ossification center. Ossification continues from this center toward the ends of the bones. After spongy bone is formed in the diaphysis, osteoclasts break down the newly formed bone to open up the medullary cavity.

The cartilage in the epiphyses continues to grow so the developing bone increases in length. Later, usually after birth, secondary ossification centers form in the epiphyses. Ossification in the epiphyses is similar to that in the diaphysis except that the spongy bone is retained instead of being broken down to form a medullary cavity. When secondary ossification is complete, the hyaline cartilage is totally replaced by bone except in two areas. A region of hyaline cartilage remains over the surface of the epiphysis as the articular cartilage and another area of cartilage remains between the epiphysis and diaphysis. This is the epiphyseal plate or growth region.
Bone Growth

Bones grow in length at the epiphyseal plate by a process that is similar to endochondral ossification. The cartilage in the region of the epiphyseal plate next to the epiphysis continues to grow by mitosis. The chondrocytes, in the region next to the diaphysis, age and degenerate. Osteoblasts move in and ossify the matrix to form bone. This process continues throughout childhood and the adolescent years until the cartilage growth slows and finally stops. When cartilage growth ceases, usually in the early twenties, the epiphyseal plate completely ossifies so that only a thin epiphyseal line remains and the bones can no longer grow in length. Bone growth is under the influence of growth hormone from the anterior pituitary gland and sex hormones from the ovaries and testes.

Even though bones stop growing in length in early adulthood, they can continue to increase in thickness or diameter throughout life in response to stress from increased muscle activity or to weight. The increase in diameter is called appositional growth. Osteoblasts in the periosteum form compact bone around the external bone surface. At the same time, osteoclasts in the endosteum break down bone on the internal bone surface, around the medullary cavity. These two processes together increase the diameter of the bone and, at the same time, keep the bone from becoming excessively heavy and bulky.

[AD]

Epiphyseal plates by definition are found in long bones. Do you consider the mandible a long bone?

What can you google about intramembranous ossification? (Since this is the other type of ossification next to endochondral ossification, which you clearly have googled extensively)

Lastly, read the first line of this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10984887/



Investigations on skeletal growth zones via bone scans as base of determination of optimal time for surgery in mandibular asymmetry.
Authors
Reuland P, et al. Show all
Journal

Nuklearmedizin. 2000 Aug;39(5):121-6.
Affiliation

Department of Nuclear Medicine, University of Tübingen, Freiburg, Germany.

Abstract

AIM of the study was to find out whether there is a common stop of growth of mandibular bone, so that no individual determination of the optimal time for surgery in patients with asymmetric mandibular bone growth is needed. As there are no epiphyseal plates in the mandibular bone, stop of growth cannot be determined on X-ray films.

[AD]

Btw, have you found out how estro causes water retention? Or do you still think that water molecules pop out of the estrogen-receptor complex?

[Sworder]

I don't use Google or Wikipedia.

Reconstruction of the Pediatric Maxilla and Mandible
http://archotol.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=404258

Mesenchymal in origin, bone is a living tissue making up the majority of the human skeleton. The craniofacial skeleton, including the mandible, grows through 2 mechanisms: epiphyseal proliferation and remodeling. Epiphyseal proliferation is largely responsible for increases in bone length and projection, a process that is dominant during the first 18 years of life. After age 18, the epiphyseal plate, located in the proximal zone of the conical subcondylar ridge, fuses. Prior to fusion, it exists as a 3-dimensional structure that, under the influence of the surrounding soft tissues, is essential to normal mandibular projection. The epiphysis adapts the intercondylar distance to the widening cartilaginous synchondrosis of the cranial base, highlighting the ever-important relationship between normal mandibular growth and normal basicranial development. The role of epiphyseal growth, particularly in the prepubescent pediatric patient, cannot be overemphasized.

[Sworder]

Btw, have you found out how estro causes water retention? Or do you still think that water molecules pop out of the estrogen-receptor complex?

I never said that they popped out of the ER complex. This is now a Sworder thread.


I am logging off, if you want to contribute to the thread, so it's not completely derailed. Please explain to everybody how and what causes the mandible to stop growing.

[Doont-Hunter]

I run GH at the same time. There are many other risks of GH to be aware that can occur before mandibular changes.

Is it possible to do a testosterone only cycle without GH, or is it recommended to do GH? Sorry, I don't know much about GH. What are some of these other risks you speak of? Are they higher/more dangerous risks than testosterone only?

[AD]

Is it possible to do a testosterone only cycle without GH, or is it recommended to do GH? Sorry, I don't know much about GH. What are some of these other risks you speak of? Are they higher/more dangerous risks than testosterone only?

hi, D-Hunter. have you read this?
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UKc32WdAavY

[Until_It_Sleeps]

I actually used to measure my jaw width when I started my first cycle, until I realized I didn't really care.

I've been told my face has "hardened" since I've started using, some of which is due to the low bodyfat the weeks before a show. Before the most recent one I was actually scared of my reflection, I looked all gaunt and sucked up.

I've noticed I never get carded anymore, and when I uploaded some pics of me to Facebook at age 29, before I used anything (I'm 33 now) I was asked to tag the pics because it didn't recognize me.

[Doont-Hunter]

hi, D-Hunter. have you read this?
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UKc32WdAavY

Thanks, I'll take a look. By the way, do you know much about Anavar? I'm currently on an Anavar only cycle and according to my weight scales at home, I've gone up 5KG in three weeks and gone up about two percent in bodyfat. I'm sure it's Anavar to because it looks like I'm losing fat around the waist, and I've been getting extreme calf pumps to and from walking to the gym lol. I don't physically look like I've gone up 5KG, maybe 2KG at maximum so I just don't understand. I've been having a clean diet with one cheat meal a week. It really doesn't make sense to me.

[marcus300]

Asian, lol. good posts,

[human project]

I've been reading conflicting information in regards to AAS and jaw growth. Some people say they noticed visible changed in their jaws, others said they didn't notice anything, some noticed bigger skulls even lol. I also read that apparently HGH has more of an effect on the jaw than AAS? I would have thought seeing as AAS makes your muscles bigger, and considering there are muscles in the jaw, then surely the jaw muscles would increase too?

Are there people on here who have noticed changes in their jaws over time or their head sizes? If you look back through any of your old photos do you notice any changes in your jaw? I just don't really see any bodybuilders with small jaws. Most seem to have really masculine, chiseled jaw lines that really stand out.

Everyone always talks about my ridiculas jaw line. I also have to say I've had numerous problems associated with my jaw. I have had tmj since starting steroids also

[human project]

Anabolic steroids do not do this. Human Growth Hormone, however, has the possibility of doing so.

I have taken thousands of ius of hgh tho

[human project]

So only high doses of HGH change the mandible? What about just normal doses of HGH? Do people on here like HGH of do they only like AAS like Testosterone, Trenbolone etc?

I take hgh because I feel its important like a one a day vitamin but I only actually like test and tren..

[adamjames]

watch all of colemans dvds on youtube and watch his face morph into skeletor with the big eye sockets and jaw after years of high doses of HGH, and im only guessing he was on high doses of HGH, but im pretty sure it wasent red bull and cell mass that got him 8 olympias

[acidking]

I would be confused whether I am shaving my head or my beard.

[adamjames]

I would be confused whether I am shaving my head or my beard.

pregnant jaw............ok thats enough now

[Sworder]

watch all of colemans dvds on youtube and watch his face morph into skeletor with the big eye sockets and jaw after years of high doses of HGH, and im only guessing he was on high doses of HGH, but im pretty sure it wasent red bull and cell mass that got him 8 olympias

I think it's too funny how everybody blames hGH and not the 3grams of AAS, slin and igf they are running.

[adamjames]

I think it's too funny how everybody blames hGH and not the 3grams of AAS, slin and igf they are running.

yeah....sure