Tomoxifen test boost cycle?

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11-18-2012, 10:32 PM
2xChamp

Tomoxifen test boost cycle?

Ok, I have about 24 nolvadex d aka tomoxifen 20mg. I was reading that tomoxifen will raise testosterone levels in males. I'm going to start tomorrow taking 20mg of tomoxifen, 3 grams daa, some crap tribulus, 50mg of dhea and some zma at night for the next four weeks. Does this sound good for boosting natural test levels and maybe helping build some muscle? I'm 30yr old 205lbs with around 15% bf at 5ft 9in and I have been lifting hard for the last 1yr 1/2 and have gained a solid inch to my arms (16 3/4in as of now). I want the 17's and will try anything except pro hormones or injectables, not that I have anything against them, just feel I'm predisposed to bad sides and don't wanna risk making myself even more ugly :)
11-18-2012, 10:34 PM
BallerBoi

Why not cycle some Dbol?
11-18-2012, 10:36 PM
2xChamp

Just looking for a more natural approach
11-18-2012, 10:38 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerBoi

Why not cycle some Dbol?

You're 18 years old and recommending a toxic oral as a cycle!?! You are in no position to offer advice.
11-18-2012, 10:39 PM
BallerBoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Just looking for a more natural approach

Understandable. From what I've experienced, taking supps that are suppose to 'boost' natural testosterone are just a waste. But someone will be able to tell you if taking Nolva as a Test booster is a good idea or not..
11-18-2012, 10:40 PM
austinite

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

You're 18 years old and recommending a toxic oral as a cycle!?! You are in no position to offer advice.

Agree. poor advice.

OP. Just hit up the nutrition section. Those guys can critique your diet and help you maximize gains.
11-18-2012, 10:42 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Ok, I have about 24 nolvadex d aka tomoxifen 20mg. I was reading that tomoxifen will raise testosterone levels in males. I'm going to start tomorrow taking 20mg of tomoxifen, 3 grams daa, some crap tribulus, 50mg of dhea and some zma at night for the next four weeks. Does this sound good for boosting natural test levels and maybe helping build some muscle? I'm 30yr old 205lbs with around 15% bf at 5ft 9in and I have been lifting hard for the last 1yr 1/2 and have gained a solid inch to my arms (16 3/4in as of now). I want the 17's and will try anything except pro hormones or injectables, not that I have anything against them, just feel I'm predisposed to bad sides and don't wanna risk making myself even more ugly :)

Terrible idea. Most OTC test boosters are garbage and taking a selective estrogen receptor modulator (tamoxifen) which is designed for treatment of breast cancer is not the direction I'd take. Moreover, tamoxifen has some unpleasant side effects if used for prolonged periods.

Have you had any blood work done lately to get your natural hormone levels examined?
11-18-2012, 10:43 PM
2xChamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by austinite

Agree. poor advice.

OP. Just hit up the nutrition section. Those guys can critique your diet and help you maximize gains.

Gotcha but do you think that the tomoxifen will help gain muscle if "stacked" with the other supposed "test boosters"?
11-18-2012, 10:44 PM
BallerBoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Gotcha but do you think that the tomoxifen will help gain muscle if "stacked" with the other supposed "test boosters"?

Best boosters are a waste of your hard earned money man. Don't bother. Just run some Test
11-18-2012, 10:46 PM
2xChamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Terrible idea. Most OTC test boosters are garbage and taking a selective estrogen receptor modulator (tamoxifen) which is designed for treatment of breast cancer is not the direction I'd take. Moreover, tamoxifen has some unpleasant side effects if used for prolonged periods.

Have you had any blood work done lately to get your natural hormone levels examined?

Yes sir I did! I only plan on taking it for 4 weeks, the only sides I have read are hot flashes and some problems with ovaries of which I have none. And I'm not a fan of natural test boosters either but thought they might help along with the tomoxifen
11-18-2012, 10:51 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Yes sir I did! I only plan on taking it for 4 weeks, the only sides I have read are hot flashes and some problems with ovaries of which I have none. And I'm not a fan of natural test boosters either but thought they might help along with the tomoxifen

Possible side effects of tamoxifen

- stroke
- pulmonary embolism
- leukopenia
- neutropenia
- hepatotoxicity
- nausea
- vomiting
- light headedness
- fatigue
- loss of libido
- impotence/ED
- peripheral edema
- alopecia (hair loss)
11-18-2012, 10:52 PM
BallerBoi

MuscleInk, If Tamoxifen (Nolva) has all these bad sides, why is it used in typical PCTs?
11-18-2012, 10:54 PM
2xChamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Possible side effects of tamoxifen

- stroke
- pulmonary embolism
- leukopenia
- neutropenia
- hepatotoxicity
- nausea
- vomiting
- light headedness
- fatigue
- loss of libido
- impotence/ED
- peripheral edema
- alopecia (hair loss)

Where did you find this? Interesting even though it rains on my parade. It cause pulmonary embolism by increasing chance of blood clots but it also lowers bad cholesterol levels. All my blood work is good as of now. Maybe run only 10mgs a day for 4 weeks just to get the mild boost? Idk def makes me think...
11-18-2012, 11:03 PM
Doont-Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Possible side effects of tamoxifen

- stroke
- pulmonary embolism
- leukopenia
- neutropenia
- hepatotoxicity
- nausea
- vomiting
- light headedness
- fatigue
- loss of libido
- impotence/ED
- peripheral edema
- alopecia (hair loss)

**** my life bro. I didn't realize it was that bad. That's actually putting me off the idea of a PCT even though I know it's a necessity. Jesus ****ing christ.
11-18-2012, 11:14 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Where did you find this? Interesting even though it rains on my parade. It cause pulmonary embolism by increasing chance of blood clots but it also lowers bad cholesterol levels. All my blood work is good as of now. Maybe run only 10mgs a day for 4 weeks just to get the mild boost? Idk def makes me think...

I'm a physician. Tamoxifen is one of many (neo) adjuvant tx we use in clinic for metastatic breast cancer.

PCT is four weeks. At prescribed PCT doses, cardiac events should be minimal if person's cardiac health is good or no pre-existing of familial hx of CHD.

OP, nutrition is your best bet. When you are ready, a testosterone base (injectable) would be more prudent.
11-18-2012, 11:21 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

I'm a physician. Tamoxifen is one of many (neo) adjuvant tx we use in clinic for metastatic breast cancer.

PCT is four weeks. At prescribed PCT doses, cardiac events should be minimal if person's cardiac health is good or no pre-existing of familial hx of CHD.

OP, nutrition is your best bet. When you are ready, a testosterone base (injectable) would be more prudent.

To add to this, the most common and early effects are: fatigue, headaches, edema, elevated liver enzymes, ED/libido changes. The more severe effects listed are with extremely high doses or extended use.

The take home message, less is more and prolonged use increases risks of more serious events.
11-18-2012, 11:26 PM
BallerBoi

Ok so it's still a wise choice to have Nolva in your PCT even though reading this list makes it seem like a terrible product.
11-18-2012, 11:35 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerBoi

Ok so it's still a wise choice to have Nolva in your PCT even though reading this list makes it seem like a terrible product.

Yes, definitely use it for PCT.....unless you're a TRT patient, then PCT isn't necessary.

All of the anabolic agents come with mild to severe side effect profiles as well. It all comes down to managing use carefully and wisely. You only get one life. ;)
11-19-2012, 07:08 AM
jimmyinkedup

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerBoi

MuscleInk, If Tamoxifen (Nolva) has all these bad sides, why is it used in typical PCTs?

Because at the dosage and duration we take the drug they are essentially a non issue. Ever read the potential adverse side effects for tylenol ? You would never take it. To cover their ass they have to list very potential possibility. Even in gyno reversal etc is has been deemd tamox is a safe treatment and that treatment lasts for 6 months in most case studies.
11-19-2012, 07:13 AM
jimmyinkedup

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Gotcha but do you think that the tomoxifen will help gain muscle if "stacked" with the other supposed "test boosters"?

No..it wont. I posted a study here done on healthy resistance trained males and anastrozole (arimidex). It increase their t levels by 55-60 %. The end result - not change in body composition over those taking it and those that didnt.
Point - While adex isnt a serm you need a much more significant test increase than that to make any difference at all. There are guys with low t levels that make good gains ...its not all about t levels my man. As was pointed out a proper diet would yield significant results and the education you get developing it will yield significant , long term (like a lifetime) results. Id look there.
11-19-2012, 07:13 AM
lovbyts

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xChamp

Ok, I have about 24 nolvadex d aka tomoxifen 20mg. I was reading that tomoxifen will raise testosterone levels in males. I'm going to start tomorrow taking 20mg of tomoxifen, 3 grams daa, some crap tribulus, 50mg of dhea and some zma at night for the next four weeks. Does this sound good for boosting natural test levels and maybe helping build some muscle? I'm 30yr old 205lbs with around 15% bf at 5ft 9in and I have been lifting hard for the last 1yr 1/2 and have gained a solid inch to my arms (16 3/4in as of now). I want the 17's and will try anything except pro hormones or injectables, not that I have anything against them, just feel I'm predisposed to bad sides and don't wanna risk making myself even more ugly :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerBoi

Why not cycle some Dbol?

Wow the blind leading the blind.

You have some good advice above and hope you guys listen and learn. In other words DONT cycle and keep reading/learning for quite a while. VERY poor plan OP.
11-19-2012, 08:20 PM
2xChamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Wow the blind leading the blind.

You have some good advice above and hope you guys listen and learn. In other words DONT cycle and keep reading/learning for quite a while. VERY poor plan OP.

Well I never claimed it to be a good plan haha and yes it was very good advise. Thank you all for your input. I believe my tomox will just have to wait for someone who wants it because I'm am not that person....
11-19-2012, 08:33 PM
MuscleInk

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Because at the dosage and duration we take the drug they are essentially a non issue. Ever read the potential adverse side effects for tylenol ? You would never take it. To cover their ass they have to list very potential possibility. Even in gyno reversal etc is has been deemd tamox is a safe treatment and that treatment lasts for 6 months in most case studies.

True in the majority of cases, I won't disagree, but studies of off label use of these drugs are lacking relative to studies with their intended application. You can treat 10 patients with the same drug and get a range of responses sometimes. Very serious side effects are rare - even in cases where these drugs are used as intended (I mean really, how many actual cases of Stevens-Johnson syndrome have occurred from taking arimidex). My concern at times is people take these things willy nilly assuming nothing could possibly go wrong. That's a dangerous assumption. On the other hand I also wouldn't want to scare the hell out people and have them thinking the worse case scenario is the likeliest.

You've been around long enough to know that in many cases, people are taking a lot of these compounds having little to no idea of the risks because the only thing they are focused on are the rewards.
11-20-2012, 07:56 AM
jimmyinkedup

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

You've been around long enough to know that in many cases, people are taking a lot of these compounds having little to no idea of the risks because the only thing they are focused on are the rewards.

This is true. Often it is dome with the erroneous "more is better" mentality as well which in not only imprudent but can be dangerous.
Sometime extremes veer the view to where it belongs.... I just have visions of the fear mongering that supp companies use to steer people away from the truly effective compounds like tamox and clom for pct to sell their useless grass clippings in a cap. Ive been in the game a long time and the steroid game 17 years , ive not heard of one case during a pct where someone has had a stroke due to tamox use.

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