Hard Work Seems to Not Matter In the End

[JWP806]

Actually 12 p.m. is Midnight...12a.m. is noon...it.s not p.m till a second after...12 pm (midnight) is 2400 on a 24 hour clock

So 12:01pm is in the afternoon and even going further than that, 12:00:01pm is in the afternoon as well but 12:00pm is midnight?

It makes sense when you're talking about it on a 24 hour clock but not when you are talking in the terms that I am using above...

win-win:
"The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (Fourth Edition, 2000) has a similar usage note on this topic: "Strictly speaking, 12 a.m. denotes midnight, and 12 p.m. denotes noon, but there is sufficient confusion over these uses to make it advisable to use 12 noon and 12 midnight where clarity is required."

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Your pics are amazing and I'm jelious as hell BUT...you say some of the dumbest shyt!

You cannot compare 2 ppl and say one will look better because of juice! The #1 factor in how you will look is genetics! Toss in diet, juice and routine and you can still only maximize your genetics, which are different than someone elses genetics.

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

Easy with the insults. Yes of course genetics are extremely important. So is gear. In fact, genetics are really what determine what people can get away with from a diet standpoint. It's not cut & dry and there are too many variables that shape what someone will look like. At the same time, if a guy is natural, he can only get to a certain point and any effort beyond there is just going to help the person maintain his physique.

[Lunk1]

Easy with the insults. Yes of course genetics are extremely important. So is gear. In fact, genetics are really what determine what people can get away with from a diet standpoint. It's not cut & dry and there are too many variables that shape what someone will look like. At the same time, if a guy is natural, he can only get to a certain point and any effort beyond there is just going to help the person maintain his physique.

Now your refering to genetic limits...again, different for everyone! The op needs to compare himself to HIMSELF, not anyone else.

I agree that once one has hit a genetic limit then the only solution is juice to push past and juice will be required to maintain anything past limits.

Your comment did not compare 2 ppl at genetic growth limits..it simply said a person on juice will look better than one not on juice!

[70sAesthetics]

Your pics are amazing and I'm jelious as hell BUT...you say some of the dumbest shyt!

You cannot compare 2 ppl and say one will look better because of juice! The #1 factor in how you will look is genetics! Toss in diet, juice and routine and you can still only maximize your genetics, which are different than someone elses genetics.

The op has a case of Penis envy....no amount of juice will make his cock as big as his friends!

My chawk is bigger than my friends and im still way bigger than him and better looking. hes only 190lbs with 15 inch arms at 25%bf.

but hey just your opinion.....betas gonna beta...

[Lunk1]

Hmmmmm....welcome back Trance!

IP check complete!

[70sAesthetics]

Hmmmmm....welcome back Trance!

IP check complete!

why you fraudin? you didnt check ip dont lie. your too dumb to even know how

but hey betas gonna beta

[--->>405<<---]

My chawk is bigger than my friends and im still way bigger than him and better looking. hes only 190lbs with 15 inch arms at 25%bf.

but hey just your opinion.....betas gonna beta...

this statement contradicts the premise of ur entire OP IMO. if hes 190lbs and 25% bf chances are he looks like shit and should not be cycling. 142.5lbs LBM LOL.. genetic limit in 1.5 yrs..

u just making this up as u go along or wat dude?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

[/B]

Now your refering to genetic limits...again, different for everyone! The op needs to compare himself to HIMSELF, not anyone else.

I agree that once one has hit a genetic limit then the only solution is juice to push past and juice will be required to maintain anything past limits.

Your comment did not compare 2 ppl at genetic growth limits..it simply said a person on juice will look better than one not on juice!

I fail to see where our opinions differ. Not sure why you think I am disagreeing with anything you are saying.

[kelkel]

Great, math!

[Lunk1]

I fail to see where our opinions differ. Not sure why you think I am disagreeing with anything you are saying.

Maybe I am simply misreading, as the op pointed out how dumb I am

It just seemed as if you were saying take any 2 ppl and the 1 juicing will always look better than the 1 not juicing. I took it as even 2 ppl no where near their genetic limit...and I didnt recall good old genetics being mentioned.

No matter...Im mostly just hatin on you cause you look friggin fantastic man. I'd give both nuts for that look. Damn my lack of diet disipline

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Maybe I am simply misreading, as the op pointed out how dumb I am

It just seemed as if you were saying take any 2 ppl and the 1 juicing will always look better than the 1 not juicing. I took it as even 2 ppl no where near their genetic limit...and I didnt recall good old genetics being mentioned.

No matter...Im mostly just hatin on you cause you look friggin fantastic man. I'd give both nuts for that look. Damn my lack of diet disipline

LOL thanks. I probably just use more tren than you though

Maybe it didn't sound clear when I said that. I should have said "usually" instead of "always."

[--->>405<<---]

No matter...Im mostly just hatin on you cause you look friggin fantastic man. I'd give both nuts for that look. Damn my lack of diet disipline

with proper TRT protocol this might just be possible Job..

[Times Roman]

im a bit curious to how u figured out what ur genetic limit is ahead of time as well as how long its gonna take both of u to get there???

agree with 405. I have no clue what my genetic limit is. Longest i've gone is 5 serious years before "something happened" forcing me to abandon my routines. I've been 250 before natty, and it felt like I could maybe add another 25lbs or so. But only guessing. Now I'm 51, and my natty limit has (I'm pretty sure) been declining. Even hitting 245 where Im at now is a challange, and I'm blasting/cruising.

If you know a way to determine in advance your natty limit, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.

[Lunk1]

with proper TRT protocol this might just be possible Job..

If I could get that look I would take TRT..hell Im 40 and done with kids!

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I don't think genetic limits are really that hard to guess. It really doesn't vary THAT much between different individuals. For let's say a 5'10 guy, usually the best he can get is around 170-180lbs in slightly less than contest condition.

[70sAesthetics]

Point of thread was:

Guy A: Builds base of a few years. Does one cycle, hits his goal of 19/20 inch arms in 4 years. 3 natty, 1 assisted. Lets assume this is "around" Genetic Limit or slightly below. Or just GOAL SIZE.

Guy B: Does not build base and juices from start. Does 3-4 cycles and hits goal of 19/20 inch arms/same goal size as Guy A:, but in 2 yrs with assistance.

Both have perfect diet, nutrition, sleep.

Guy A reaches goal in 4 yrs. with 1 cycle.
Guy B reaches goal in 2 yrs. With 3-4 cycles

What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.

Guy A wasted 2 more years of life for same result???
Guy B has more health issues/more likely to lose gains????

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Point of thread was:

Guy A: Builds base of a few years. Does one cycle, hits his goal of 19/20 inch arms in 4 years. 3 natty, 1 assisted. Lets assume this is "around" Genetic Limit or slightly below. Or just GOAL SIZE.

Guy B: Does not build base and juices from start. Does 3-4 cycles and hits goal of 19/20 inch arms/same goal size as Guy A:, but in 2 yrs with assistance.

Both have perfect diet, nutrition, sleep.

Guy A reaches goal in 4 yrs. with 1 cycle.
Guy B reaches goal in 2 yrs. With 3-4 cycles

What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.

Guy A wasted 2 more years of life for same result???
Guy B has more health issues/more likely to lose gains????

Very good question. I don't think Guy B will have more health issues other than the fact he juiced more than Guy A. It is best to build a base. How long it takes depends on the person. It can take anywhere from 2-5 years for someone to hit their potential if they do everything right.

It is best to build a nice solid base and get at the very least, get close to your potential. Also make sure you are lean (all abs abs, etc.). So let's say you train 3 years diligently, are low bodyfat, and just won't progress anymore, then you either maintain that for good, or hit the juice and further enhance your physique.

[70sAesthetics]

Very good question. I don't think Guy B will have more health issues other than the fact he juiced more than Guy A. It is best to build a base. How long it takes depends on the person. It can take anywhere from 2-5 years for someone to hit their potential if they do everything right.

It is best to build a nice solid base and get at the very least, get close to your potential. Also make sure you are lean (all abs abs, etc.). So let's say you train 3 years diligently, are low bodyfat, and just won't progress anymore, then you either maintain that for good, or hit the juice and further enhance your physique.

Yes this is what I have always heard/thought. Im at the point where to get bigger which I think I could. Would require so much dedication, thats its almost not worth the reward/effort, at this point. Its like a video game where lvl 1-90 is "x" amount of time. And from lvl 90-99 is harder and longer than it was to get from lvl 1-90.

But really you havent/no one ever actually says why building the base is requiredl first? If were too assume one had done enough research to have perfect nutrition and good training from the get go why must be build a base first? You have already said Guy B will probably not have more health issues. So what is the actual reasoning here?

[ANIMAL]

Because no one starts doing something they've never done before perfectly. You can watch and research how to diet/train with proper form and reason etc for however long you want before doing it... when you start you're not going to do it perfect.

Ok so he hit 20 inch arms faster then you... and? What about everything else? You just said he's at 25%BF and you look better. You have more experience and knowledge then he does. And if he's 25% BF he clearly didn't do enough research before cycling, which brings me back to my point that when you start you just don't do it perfect.

[eastcoast112]

For me i went 10 years natty before deciding to cycle, i learned and gained great knowledge in the last 2-3 years lifting natty when i thought i was close to my genetic limit. i think that the guy that waits a few years to cycle as opposed to the guy that jumps on it from the beginning will know how to force his body to grow and will also know when to rest or switch things up.

[Times Roman]

I don't think genetic limits are really that hard to guess. It really doesn't vary THAT much between different individuals. For let's say a 5'10 guy, usually the best he can get is around 170-180lbs in slightly less than contest condition.

that can't be right. I've known guys that height that have went well over 200lbs with low BF%. But they'd been at it almost ten years consistant. Shit, I'm 6' and made it up to 250 natty, although my bf% was higher (didn't have calipers back then to know exactly bf%).

There are a variety of variables one must consider.

natty test levels
natty E levels
natty muscle fiber type (fast vs. slow twitch)
pure genetics.... some guys just get big easy

I've known guys that were real big naturally, and all they really needed to do was put in a few years at the gym and lose significant bf%. Hell, their calves alone were about the size of my thighs when i was a marathon runner.

Hell, i think there is a great deal of variability between individuals.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

that can't be right. I've known guys that height that have went well over 200lbs with low BF%. But they'd been at it almost ten years consistant. Shit, I'm 6' and made it up to 250 natty, although my bf% was higher (didn't have calipers back then to know exactly bf%).

There are a variety of variables one must consider.

natty test levels
natty E levels
natty muscle fiber type (fast vs. slow twitch)
pure genetics.... some guys just get big easy

I've known guys that were real big naturally, and all they really needed to do was put in a few years at the gym and lose significant bf%. Hell, their calves alone were about the size of my thighs when i was a marathon runner.

Hell, i think there is a great deal of variability between individuals.

Like I said, close to contest condition. And it ultimately will have to come down to pics, not numbers. I don't trust anyone when they say what their bodyfat is. I have a hard time believing 200lbs shredded at 5'10. It is really really rare. Also, people lie...a lot

[beasting]

Can someone explain to me what the hell natty is! Lol, I'm guessing Natural? And TRT is Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

[Times Roman]

Can someone explain to me what the hell natty is! Lol, I'm guessing Natural? And TRT is Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

see? that wasn't so hard, was it?

[70sAesthetics]

Because no one starts doing something they've never done before perfectly. You can watch and research how to diet/train with proper form and reason etc for however long you want before doing it... when you start you're not going to do it perfect.

Ok so he hit 20 inch arms faster then you... and? What about everything else? You just said he's at 25%BF and you look better. You have more experience and knowledge then he does. And if he's 25% BF he clearly didn't do enough research before cycling, which brings me back to my point that when you start you just don't do it perfect.

I agree with this. Although, By about the beginning of 2nd year I knew how to train for my body. The 3rd year was more so, what can I do to shock it a little more. So now weve established if diet is perfect. And proper training is aquired through experience this is the only purpose of base? As in i could have juiced last year. I always felt there was more of a reason to hit near genetic limit first. But I suppose thats only to "maximize" total gains Ie a pro career?

Like I said, close to contest condition. And it ultimately will have to come down to pics, not numbers. I don't trust anyone when they say what their bodyfat is. I have a hard time believing 200lbs shredded at 5'10. It is really really rare. Also, people lie...a lot

I dunno maybe your right but. I started out at 152lbs at 12%. Then I cut for boxing to about 140lbs and I was like an aushwitz survivor. I then got to 182lbs and was able to see shoulder striations. The following year I got to 190lbs in 2 years at 10% and take in mind I do not train legs so there is alot of extra weight I could gain there. This year I figured if I cut down to around 10-12% id be near 200lbs. Your probably right though, i dont cut to contest weight

[beasting]

see? that wasn't so hard, was it?

Thanks

[Perseverance1]

I agree with this. Although, By about the beginning of 2nd year I knew how to train for my body. The 3rd year was more so, what can I do to shock it a little more. So now weve established if diet is perfect. And proper training is aquired through experience this is the only purpose of base? As in i could have juiced last year. I always felt there was more of a reason to hit near genetic limit first. But I suppose thats only to "maximize" total gains Ie a pro career?



I dunno maybe your right but. I started out at 152lbs at 12%. Then I cut for boxing to about 140lbs and I was like an aushwitz survivor. I then got to 182lbs and was able to see shoulder striations. The following year I got to 190lbs in 2 years at 10% and take in mind I do not train legs so there is alot of extra weight I could gain there. This year I figured if I cut down to around 10-12% id be near 200lbs. Your probably right though, i dont cut to contest weight

You don't train legs? Wtf is wrong with you? I don't even know what to say........

[--->>405<<---]

You don't train legs? Wtf is wrong with you? I don't even know what to say........

X2^^^

Ur gonna hit ur "genetic limit" and u dont train legs? A fundamental aspect of bodybuilding...

[70sAesthetics]

You don't train legs? Wtf is wrong with you? I don't even know what to say........

X2^^^

Ur gonna hit ur "genetic limit" and u dont train legs? A fundamental aspect of bodybuilding...

I train for looks and because I like it. Im not competing therefore there is no rulebook dictating how i have to train.

I have naturally big legs. Within 1.5 months of training on a cut, i decided to do legs. My squats went from 185lbs ATG to 375lbs ATG. My quads got very big, and even my 36 width dress pants started looking tight and ridiculous. I dont want tree trunk legs of peace.

And inb4 I hear legs help everything else grow. This is a myth. I grow more when I can get away with more and tax my cns and energy levels less. I can do this by more upper body emphasis and no legs

I have tried just squats and sldl for funcionalitys sake but even those 2 cause my legs to grow fast

[kelkel]

I train for looks and because I like it. Im not competing therefore there is no rulebook dictating how i have to train. Absolutely correct. Just the sudden revelation of no leg training flies in the face of the entire rest of the thread

I have naturally big legs. Within 1.5 months of training on a cut, i decided to do legs. My squats went from 185lbs ATG to 375lbs ATG. My quads got very big, and even my 36 width dress pants started looking tight and ridiculous. I dont want tree trunk legs of peace. Yet you seem to want a big upper body. Is balance important or are your legs (and calves) in really good shape naturally

And inb4 I hear legs help everything else grow. This is a myth. I grow more when I can get away with more and tax my cns and energy levels less. I can do this by more upper body emphasis and no legs. Your misinformed. Intense exercise that tax the entire body does in fact release more GH. Just google it or read one of the many studies on Pubmed.

I have tried just squats and sldl for funcionalitys sake but even those 2 cause my legs to grow fast

Now, before everyone else asks, post a pic of these bad boys.

I'm really not trying to jump on you here but you just don't seem to be making sense, IMO.

[Lunk1]

He's just trolling kel...and I suspect an already recently banned member.

[kelkel]

Always a possibility......

[70sAesthetics]

just measured quads are 26" after not training legs in nearly 2 yrs

[panntastic]

If they are 26" vascular cut and all striations visible then kudos but I suspect they are no where near that level.
Like you said your friends 25% bf so unless there is picture evidence proving otherwise I'm gonna have to call BS and say you and your buddy are probably the same stats and don't have a clue what your doing