Can long term use create an immunity.........?

[The Bear 79]

I've been digging around for two days now & I can't find anything useful pertaining to the following question:

Can long term use of anabolic steroids cause you to become immune to the beneficial effects? In other words, if you continuously use gear for say 1, 2, 5 years, will you eventually stop making gains no matter the dose?

If possible, I'd like to see the supporting evidence behind your answers. Thanx Gents.

[Lunk1]

Just to clarify...do you mean NON-stop use for those periods, blast and cruise or cycling?

[The Bear 79]

Now that you mention it, I'm curious to both, non stop, continuous, year round use & blast & cruise use.

[Lunk1]

Great question...while I have no scientific study to back up my hypothesis. I would consider that ppl on TRT and HRT do not typicaly (from my knowledge) have to continue to up doses or cycle on and off once the desired levels are found! Therefore I would theorize that, ulike rec drugs, the body doesn't build up an immunity to the drug or the doses!

Just a theory!!!

[The Bear 79]

Makes sense, thank you Lunk.

Anyone else....................?

[MickeyKnox]

I don't think the answer is that cut and dry. But i do I think the short answer is yes, to a certain degree. Otherwise, how do you explain guys like Marcus or Titan who require huge doses to see results?

I believe a certain amount of tolerance builds up over time. BUT, Lunk does bring up a very good point about TRT patents. Perhaps this only applys to large quantity use?

Just a thought..

[Perseverance1]

Makes sense, thank you Lunk.

Anyone else....................?

I'm inclined to agree with Lunk, at least for test based on the fact that your body naturally produces it...so why would you become immune? I mean, do you build immunities to creatine?

I can't really speak for other anabolics though...just my 2 cents

[Lunk1]

I don't think the answer is that cut and dry. But i do I think the short answer is yes, to a certain degree. Otherwise, how do you explain guys like Marcus or Titan who require huge doses to see results?
I believe a certain amount of tolerance builds up over time. BUT, Lunk does bring up a very good point about TRT patents. Perhaps this only applys to large quantity use?

Just a thought..

I think now your speaking more about levels required to maintain growth that exceeds genetic limits...not neccessarily immunity (if we want to use that word).

[MickeyKnox]

I think now your speaking more about levels required to maintain growth that exceeds genetic limits...not neccessarily immunity (if we want to use that word).

You're right. I may be confusing tolerance with immunity.

[Perseverance1]

You're right. I may be confusing tolerance with immunity.

I don't think he's referring to tolerance...I think he's trying to say that at X size beyond your genetic limit you will require a larger boost to maintain/increase gains. This line of thought actually makes perfect sense to me.

[ScotchGuard02]

My first cycle was the best. I noticed greatest gains. I still get gains but not as dramatic as my first cycle. I can only speak from experience. It feels like there is a base level tolerance at about 100mg/wk and I start making gains at about 200mg/wk. The gains get greater with more gear.

[K-nut 2129]

I def think Lunk on the right page on this one. The amount of AAS should only have to change as a result of physiologic changes/differences in the body. For example, decrease in the number of testosterone receptors in the body (which can happen as you age) or like Lunk said, if you exceed your genetic limits and require higher doses just to maintain...which doesn't necessarily equate to tolerance, just fighting nature.

[Bio-Active]

Lunk is right here when i first started Pinning 250 mg of test c made me feel like superman the next day. Now i dont even notice it.

[The Bear 79]

OK, it's obvious the majority is in agreement on this subject, but I'm still interested in some supporting evidence (aside from personal experiences) if anyone can produce some. I am in no way trying to discredit any of your claims, opinions & / or personal experience, I would just like to see something a bit more concrete than opinion. Thank you all for your input thus far, I look forward to anything else anyone may have to offer on the subject..................keep em comin.

[Lunk1]

OK, it's obvious the majority is in agreement on this subject, but I'm still interested in some supporting evidence (aside from personal experiences) if anyone can produce some. I am in no way trying to discredit any of your claims, opinions & / or personal experience, I would just like to see something a bit more concrete than opinion. Thank you all for your input thus far, I look forward to anything else anyone may have to offer on the subject..................keep em comin.

Just let them keep saying I'm right...it's an ego boost today lol.

[Perseverance1]

OK, it's obvious the majority is in agreement on this subject, but I'm still interested in some supporting evidence (aside from personal experiences) if anyone can produce some. I am in no way trying to discredit any of your claims, opinions & / or personal experience, I would just like to see something a bit more concrete than opinion. Thank you all for your input thus far, I look forward to anything else anyone may have to offer on the subject..................keep em comin.

I'm not sure any of us can give you anything you yourself couldn't find on google....maybe Dr. MI can if he comes across this thread...either way I am also interested in hearing about this.

[The Bear 79]

Just let them keep saying I'm right...it's an ego boost today lol.

lol.............someone is feeling a bit insecure about their shrunken nuts...........lol

[Lunk1]

lol.............someone is feeling a bit insecure about their shrunken nuts...........lol

Knock on wood. I never get atrophy, perhaps nothing from nothing is still nothing

But I'm so sensetive these days lmao

[songdog]

Just let them keep saying I'm right...it's an ego boost today lol.

Hell even a broke clock is right twice a day

[The Bear 79]

^^^lol

[Lunk1]

Hell even a broke clock is right twice a day

Thanks Jarhead!

[Bio-Active]

I thnink its important to let the receptor down regulate.

[Lunk1]

I thnink its important to let the receptor down regulate.

I'm pretty sure I have read an article that debunks receptor down regulating......

[The Bear 79]

I'm pretty sure I have read an article that debunks receptor down regulating......

Link?

[Bio-Active]

Really?

I'm pretty sure I have read an article that debunks receptor down regulating......

[Bigshotvictoria]

Without anything to back this up, it doesn't make sense. The body produces it's own androgens, and needs them for proper function. They're constantly circulating through our bodies. But; thats at physiological levels. The body constantly strives for homeostasis, so I would THINK that supra-physiological doses of AAS over a prolonged period of time would cause the body to adapt in a way that the new, high levels would elicit the response a normal physiological dose would, hence returning to baseline results with above baseline hormones. If this is true it could be considered building an immunity in a way, or at least adapting. Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass and couldn't be further from the mark

[Times Roman]

I'm pretty sure I have read an article that debunks receptor down regulating......

For some reason, I was working under the premise that receptor sites became desensitized over a period of time. This was awhile ago. Someone called me on it and challanged me to find ANY data to support my position. Not only could I not find any, I found data to suggest that androgen receptor sites did NOT become desensitized over time.

Sometimes, you have to challange yourself to not take what everybody is telling you as gospel, and find out for yourself what the truth is. Or at least that is what I had to do.

Cheers!

[Lunk1]

Link?

Really?

Damn you guys, it's one thing to remember reading something and a whole nother thing to remember where lol....I will see if I can dig it up.

I think TR is alluding to the same thing

[Lunk1]

I see you lurking Atomini....care to chime in???

[Lunk1]

AR receptors replace themselves constantly, every few hours or so it is believed. The use of AAS increases the production of adrogen receptors nearly double. They become more sensative during AAS usage but still continue to be turned over. You do not need to down regulate certain receptors as they are being replaced with new once continuosly!

I will keep searching for the article though....christ making you guys happy is a lot of work

[blacksmoke]

Doesn't myostatin come into play here?

[Lunk1]

Doesn't myostatin come into play here?

Yes...it is believed that the reason there is a decrease in gains after that 10-12 week mark is because of myostatin concentration decrease!

[>Good Luck<]

I dont believe their is an immunity but rather, a limit in which you cannot sustain or build muscle anymore. Like a genetic limit, and furthermore a total limit...

The inability to put on any more muscle because your just too damn huge... That'd be nice

[Times Roman]

AR receptors replace themselves constantly, every few hours or so it is believed. The use of AAS increases the production of adrogen receptors nearly double. They become more sensative during AAS usage but still continue to be turned over. You do not need to down regulate certain receptors as they are being replaced with new once continuosly!

I will keep searching for the article though....christ making you guys happy is a lot of work

if it's too much work, you can just send us cash instead?


....just trrying to help mate! =)

[Times Roman]

Yes...it is believed that the reason there is a decrease in gains after that 10-12 week mark is because of myostatin concentration decrease!

do you mean an "INCREASE"?

[Squats33]

I'll bring in evolution to this thread. Based on evolving, I believe our body has the ability to adapt. So you always need to introduce something new, not necessarily a higher dose of gear. New foods, methods of training, and sleep. Just to name some ideas.

[Lunk1]

do you mean an "INCREASE"?

Thank you TR!

Your check is on the way...just wait by the mail box

[The Bear 79]

AR receptors replace themselves constantly, every few hours or so it is believed. The use of AAS increases the production of adrogen receptors nearly double. They become more sensative during AAS usage but still continue to be turned over. You do not need to down regulate certain receptors as they are being replaced with new once continuosly!

I will keep searching for the article though....christ making you guys happy is a lot of work

Good info here, thanx Lunk. Oh, and if you don't find that article, there WILL be a price to pay..............chop chop homie

[Lunk1]

Good info here, thanx Lunk. Oh, and if you don't find that article, there WILL be a price to pay..............chop chop homie

I found one but I refuse to use any of Sworfishys copy and paste sources! If you google AAS downregulated receptors there is a ton of info. I can't recall who authored the article I red but alot of the info backs up the same info as the article. Basicly that receptors just keep turning over constantly so there is no need to clean or down regulate receptors.

[The Bear 79]

Heading out the door right now, I'll dig into it when I get back, thank you again brother. In the meantime, anyone else with something to offer, please don't be shy..............