First Pin of my first cycle of Test E..it was a doozey!

[maximus112]

Hey Guys, well as the titel says I just did my first pin yesterday morning with a 25g 1'' needle of Test E at .75ml which would be 187.5mg and I took everyones tips to minimise PIP such as take a warm shower before pinning to help relax the muscles, I also warmed up the vial of Test under warm water to help lower the viscosity and let it stand for a bit before injecting. I also had my girlfriend do the pinning as I was nervous as hell, she was very uncomfortable aswell but got herself together and followed sterile procedure as soon as she opened the alcohol swabs and began to rub the site ( delts ) I immidiately got a flashback of childhood at the doctors office..anxiety was high but i managed to remain calm and take deep breaths and tried not to show her i was shittin bricks here as I know she would freak out even more so. well she count to 3 and on 3 stuck me then aspirated and there was no blood...oooooh man it wasnt shit I barely felt it but when she started to administer the Test my muscle started to twitch for a few seconds and then stop and then a few seconds later twitch again for 3 secs and stop, this happened 3 times?? At first I think she was trying to administer the test quicker than she should have been because she just wanted to get it done and be over with it but I felt when she was going too fast my muscle would sting so I had her slow it down a bit and the whole injection lasted about 60 to 90 seconds which I feel is a good steady pace to also help minimise PIP. Well as soon as she was done with the injection I applied pressure to the site with an extra alcohol pad for about 60 seconds and occasionally massage then applied a bandaid. I almost immediately felt the dreaded PIP alot of you guys spoke of not nice at all..it felt like someone gave me a good ol charlie horse in my arm! I thought i did everything possible to avoid this but i guess im not one of the lucky ones! My question to you guys is.. Is it possible my gf may have hit a nerve when pinning and that may explain the twitching of the muscle and some serios pip? If so what kind of damage if any may occur from hitting a nerve and how long will the sorness last? Could this all be normal as this is virgin muscle being pinned? My delt is still sore when i woke up today..sucks ass too because today is Bi's,Tri's, and Shoulders yesterday was chest and back and it affected my workout then.

[Jaxon0408]

^^^ I had this happen quite often in my glutes on the 12 week test e run I just did. My spots were rotated between glutes and thighs. Though I haven't had the pleasure of rotating in my delts I know what you are going through. Every now and then this would happen to me on my glute week. Same thing as you It would feel like I hit a nerve and there would be twitching involved but would also feel like a a slight pinch as I passed through it. Most of the time I would pull back out and re-pin. There was one incident where I had to re-pin the same area 3 times and trust me my friend it was no fun. The worst thing that happened to me was that it became inflamed and swollen for about a week and not very comfortable to sit on. This happened once on both glutes at separate times thank god! The best area I have found is the thigh. I've only had a problem one time on it where I hit a vein going in but I aspirated with no prob but when I pulled the pin out blood shot everywhere and scared the hell out of me. I did some research after calling a nurse buddy of mine to find out its common.

My point is that you may just want to educate yourself a little more on injection spots and the proper area to inject in those spots to minimize this problem. There are websites and videos that show you where certain vital areas to avoid when injecting are and this way you will have a more pleasurable run with the reduction of PIP.

By the way I have never heated up my gear or needle and never had a problem with PIP. I always heard and was told this was a myth. I just always stayed as cautious and sterile as possible always to swob the area and vial and leave needles capped until time to inject. Most important is to make sure you have a clean area and work surface.

[maximus112]

Hey thanks for the info Jaxon, I had a feeling i hit a nerve but I wasnt sure if it was a nerve or if I was just so nervous and my muscles were just reacting to just have been pinned. Ive done alot of research on several other locations to pin aswell as you said the vital areas to avoid but I thought i would just go with the location Ive ever been pinned at and that was the delt when i was younger so i felt a bit more comfortable there to start with. I may try the glute next and see if I have a better experience with that I had also picked up some 25g 1 1/2'' needles aswell for that site. I was doing some research on subq injections and read positive results on that aswell but also know I am limited to how much of a dosage i can administer at one time..Im doing .75ml now and ive only found one study of a half a ml being done so i dont know if the .75ml would be advisable. I just read today that heating up the vial doesnt really aid in avoiding pip but allows you to lower the viscosity to a certain degree and push it through much easier..hey ill take all the help i can get tho. my next pin is thursday so i may try the other delt and see if i can avoid hitting a nerve or i might try the glute. hopefully things go smother this time I know with every injection it will become easier and easier to do as my gf and i will be accustomed to it and our nerves will be more at ease.

[Jaxon0408]

Good luck brother. Most say once you go glutes you never look back. Me on the other hand found it to be a pain in the a** . I will prob be throwing delts in my next run with short esters so I will find out the goody on them.

You do need to start pinning yourself though. I had my buddy that is a nurse pin me the first time and I was scared to DEATH! I didn't know if I was going to be able to do it to myself but I was actually able to do it better and with much less stress because I knew when it was coming and could feel what was going on in my body and react to it when it happened. Your gf doesn't know this and will shove straight through a vein or tendon much like what happened. Plus you know as well as I do gfs come and go and you don't want to be depending on someone else to do your pins for you and them leave and you be fuc*ed. Do it yourself bro...a lot less stress though you might not think it yet.

Ps: Not saying she isn't "the one" . If she's down to pin you and become educated on aas with you and keep you safe while on it...she might be a keeper! I wish mine was like that!

[fit2bOld]

What's with the 187.5 mg hope your doing at least 2x week. That's 375 mg just. Arely enough to bother with shutting down your natural test production over.

[MuscleInk]

Seems like you are going through a lot of unnecessary steps to inject. Showering to warm and relax the muscles? Heating the gear under water? Nothing wrong with any o this, but its not brain surgery, it's a silly little injection in a muscle! As long as you are using sterile techniques, there's no need for all the extra preparation. Load the syringe and inject!

Yes you'll hit a nerve on occasion. Yes you might graze a vessel and get some blood. If you're worried, withdraw the needle, replace it with a new sterile one (needles are cheap enough) and reposition and inject.

Some muscles are easier than others but PIP is part of the process. Sometimes it's worse than others, sometimes it's nothing at all.

Don't stress about it.

......and as Fit said, hopefully it's at least 2x a week and even that seems like your are under dosing based on the info provided.

[maximus112]

Yeah its twice a week mon and thursday for a total of 375mg, from all the research ive done its best to start out low and see how your body reacts to test other than what you already make naturally and go up from there. Some have made great gains at a mere 250mgs a week and some at the standard 500mgs I feel I should start off at a moderate dose of 375mgs which is still 3 to 4 times as much testosterone as what my body would produce naturally and should produce solid results. From what the vets say, once you run your first cycle you will definitely want to run more that is if your well educated in aas and the possible side effects asscociated with its use. If I feel 375mgs isnt quite doing the trick ill up the dose around week 4 or 5 to perhaps 500mgs a week. but if im good with 375mgs that will be a nice buffer for my next cycle and then I could run the 500mgs aweek.

[maximus112]

Thanks for the advise muscleink, well being this is my first time ever running a cycle let alone pinning I just wanted to do everything perfect and take others advise on tips to make a smooth experience for my first cycle. Yes it may seem silly with all the unnecessary steps taken but to a first timer with a mild phobia of needls Ill take any reasonable advise into consideration, I mean it makes sense that your muscles are relaxed after a warm bath or shower right well i know i always feel much more relaxed. and as for the gear being ran under warm water this is something Ive read in multiple threads and forums..It may not assist in redusing pip but Im sure it will somewhat thin out the oil to some extent to allow for easier injection. I know once im weeks into my cycle or even a second cycle this may all seem like hog wash and as you stated silly but as of right now ill take all the help i can get. It was pretty freaky seeing my muscle twitching tho and not knowing if I hit a nerve or if i was so tense and reacting to being pinned...its a learning process alright you can read about pinning til you blue in the face but its another story experiencing it first hand and learning how you body responds to pinning such as how fast or slow, what muscle you use and what needle size and length. but i am gratefull for the vets on here giving solid advise and what to expect,look for, avoid, and ways to combat the sides.

[MuscleInk]

Thanks for the advise muscleink, well being this is my first time ever running a cycle let alone pinning I just wanted to do everything perfect and take others advise on tips to make a smooth experience for my first cycle. Yes it may seem silly with all the unnecessary steps taken but to a first timer with a mild phobia of needls Ill take any reasonable advise into consideration, I mean it makes sense that your muscles are relaxed after a warm bath or shower right well i know i always feel much more relaxed. and as for the gear being ran under warm water this is something Ive read in multiple threads and forums..It may not assist in redusing pip but Im sure it will somewhat thin out the oil to some extent to allow for easier injection. I know once im weeks into my cycle or even a second cycle this may all seem like hog wash and as you stated silly but as of right now ill take all the help i can get. It was pretty freaky seeing my muscle twitching tho and not knowing if I hit a nerve or if i was so tense and reacting to being pinned...its a learning process alright you can read about pinning til you blue in the face but its another story experiencing it first hand and learning how you body responds to pinning such as how fast or slow, what muscle you use and what needle size and length. but i am gratefull for the vets on here giving solid advise and what to expect,look for, avoid, and ways to combat the sides.

Oh, I wasn't trying to discourage your current methods. Long ago, I used to heat the gear first but I've been able to push all gear through needles as small as 31g. It's not ideal (and I normally use 27 or 25g) and takes longer (seconds, not minutes) but from that, I realized there was no advantage to heating the oil for delivery/injection purposes. It's another matter however, if you are heating/autoclaving to destroy foreign particles (which I understand you are not).

It's good that you are cautious though. I've had one infection from injecting. Fortunately it wasn't systemic and healed within weeks, but its a good reminder of how careful and sterile injections should be performed.

It would be interesting to have your blood work done pre, intra, and post cycle to see what impact the low dose had. In many cases, less is more, but what Fit2bOld was likely concerned about is that a low dose of exogenous T will shut your natty production down and may not raise your serum levels any higher than what they were before. I haven't seen your pre-injection BW, but if you're a healthy young male, a low dose (375mg) may not increase your test levels much more than what they were naturally, before you cycled. If that's the case, there would be no advantage to injecting exogenous T and the risks would certainly outweigh any perceived benefits.

The only way to know if your injections are providing any advantage is to compare pre and during cycle BW.

[maximus112]

But I also based my decision on a few other factors then mention, I had come across a study done about giving 300mgs to 600mgs to healthy men who have had previous weitlifting experience and normal t levels from age range of 18-35 years old and these were the results of that study.


The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone’s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and igf-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for igf-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and igf-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

igf-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.


If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.

[maximus112]

also I failed to mention that I am also taking 75mgs of Anavar everyday aswell so i didnt want to over do it with the test right off the bat...just to be safe I started with a lower dose of T and will up the dose accordingly. Yes I know its not advisable to run any other compounds other than Test as a first cycle but I have another thread that I made explaining that. From that study and the results given I would say 375mgs a week would be decent starting point but then again I am new to the scene of aas and respect the opinions and thoughts of the vets who know first hand through trial and error.

[Lunk1]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...echnique/page3

[Emerald]

Seems like you are going through a lot of unnecessary steps to inject. Showering to warm and relax the muscles? Heating the gear under water? Nothing wrong with any o this, but its not brain surgery, it's a silly little injection in a muscle! As long as you are using sterile techniques, there's no need for all the extra preparation. Load the syringe and inject!

Yes you'll hit a nerve on occasion. Yes you might graze a vessel and get some blood. If you're worried, withdraw the needle, replace it with a new sterile one (needles are cheap enough) and reposition and inject.

Some muscles are easier than others but PIP is part of the process. Sometimes it's worse than others, sometimes it's nothing at all.

Don't stress about it.

......and as Fit said, hopefully it's at least 2x a week and even that seems like your are under dosing based on the info provided.

Being this nervous too me is questioning the very use of steroids . My 1st inject I was lucky, buddy is a 20 year veteran of using the gear. Took it in the leg, followed all the safety and cleanliness protocols. He injected for me, done. He then advised me, don't over think it, it's done, no guilt. Next inject he made me do it myself as he watched. It was painless. I read and he told me, keep the needle steady, don't move it. Moving it tears the muscle fibers and can sting. Been on my own ever since without issue. I just go slow, make sure I don't miss a step and breathe calmly.

[maximus112]

Being this nervous too me is questioning the very use of steroids. My 1st inject I was lucky, buddy is a 20 year veteran of using the gear. Took it in the leg, followed all the safety and cleanliness protocols. He injected for me, done. He then advised me, don't over think it, it's done, no guilt. Next inject he made me do it myself as he watched. It was painless. I read and he told me, keep the needle steady, don't move it. Moving it tears the muscle fibers and can sting. Been on my own ever since without issue. I just go slow, make sure I don't miss a step and breathe calmly.

Oh no dont get it wrong Im completely focused on the proper use of aas as it is a great tool to help acheive my goals I say tool as we all know its no magical compound that will give you the ultimate physique you have to put in serious work and be well disciplined with your diet and training. that being said the minor phobia of needles comes from a bad chicldhood incident where I was around 6 years of age and went to the doctors for a simple flu shot and the nurse or Pa broke the needle in my arm and it hurt like a bitch try to imagine the chaos of a young man and retard of a nurse scrambling to find some sort of instrument to pull the needle out. Anywho I have gotten tons of tats a good half sleeve on one arm and I have a high tollerance to pain so it has nothing to do with that it just brings back flashbacks and some anxiety when its time to pin. Im sure after a few pins i will be just fine Im trying to be more accustomed with the actual injection of the needle hopefully by my 4th pin Ill do it by myself. My first pin was yesterday and I barely felt a thing, she said as soon as she pinned me my muscle started to twitch so she may have hit a nerve...Its a learning process for sure but that wasnt fun wish i was one of those lucky bastards that i always hear about first time went smooth with no pip..must be nice! lets see how thursday goes..